The feminist hatespeech/hypocrisy/stupidity/lies/pathetic/misinformation/etc. thread

[Marx]

Use this sticky thread to capture (with cites, please) the sheer hatred of feminism. If, for example, it's part of a lengthy video file, please give a time cue of the relevent quote so people don't have to endure more hate/lies, etc. than necessary.

[Marx]

Can't find anything useful to say? Then mock the enemy:

NothingSacred @ feministing.com

The MRA videos on youtube are usually more depressing than funny, but the other day I noticed that MRA extraordinaire "ArgusEyes" had posted something like this in response to a fanboy: "You should subscribe to my channel! And bring your friends too! Get me 20 subscriptions and I'll give you a free sock!"
I think he was just trying to make a dumb joke, but I was struck by how ideal a gift a single sock really would be for an MRA fanboy. After all, he's certainly not having sex with any women (you can see the twin beds in the background in some of the videos) and I'd suppose even something ridiculous like a "fleshlight" would be too feminine and therefore repulsive to him. A single sock, on the other hand...
I have to say, my pro-feminist boyfriend and I had a good laugh over it. It's true: feminists really DO have better sex.

From same entry, by Emz

Was it just me, or did anyone else think that the Napoli guy seemed way too excited as he was describing the hypothetical rape scenario?

Trying to imply a man who talked about rape/abortion, to be 'too excited'... Indeed.

Even Pac-Man is sexist according to jayunderscorezero

I never noticed until now that Ms Pac-Man really does have to work twice as hard to get that fruit!

Flaxseed @ digitalpoint tells us what feminism is to her (I assume 'her'):

I'm feminist and i don't beleive that anyone is superior to anyone else.
Not all feminists are radical extremists so you shouldnt tar us all with the same brush!
Feminism first and foremostly is about equality for women and we wouldnt have gotten the vote without it.
I dont understand why most people assume extremists stand for the majority.

But, as I keep explaing, ACTIONS speak louder than words... as will be revealed.
On the same thread, I asked:

...could you find me a study, released by feminist which doesn't fall into one of these categories?

• Men bad - women good (most femininst 'studies' fall into this one)
• Men abusers - women victims (any d/v 'study' by a feminist reflects this)
• Men inferior - women superior (inspect any feminist 'study' pertaining to the XX and XY genes and you will see same pattern being repeated - XX superior, Y= 'mutant')

So far, I have asked for a feminist 'study' that doesn't fall into the above, and so far, not one feminist has been able to fulfill that request. Actually, one feminist did once send me to Michael Flood's page (a male feminist)... apparently he has a study which filled the criteria for not bashing men as a class. I proceeded to read his pages and found him claiming that 'feminist fathers are wonderful, non-feminist fathers are generally child abusers' - wow, that was a fair, unbias, and reasonable 'study' eh?

To which, Flaxseed responded:

You need to get rid of that huge chip on your shoulder.
it's not healthy to hate women's liberation as much as you do. I'm guessing you're single.

So, asking for a study that doesn't bash men in some form is a sign of "hating women's liberation", is indicative of one's relationship status and is clearly a sign of having a bad attitude!
She then continues with the insults...

He won't bow to your demands because he is a MAN and he WON'T bow to demands made by a WOMAN because he HATES women and their LIBERATION.
Perhaps his mummy didnt love him or some Freudian shiz.

Yes, having dared asked for a non man-bashing study clearly reveals yet more of my character. I'm a MAN, and I won't beg like a dog to a women (but I guess I do for men?) and I HATE women, and their Liberation! Yesssirrrreeee. You can see this Flaxseed really is a mentally-balanced person.

...i don't know why you're bothering because this bloke is clearly an idiot who needs to get over his OBSESSION with hating women's liberation. lol.
Do you think he realises its 2008 not 1900?

Yes, I hate women, I hate women's liberation and I am obsessed with hating the women's liberation, my mummy didn't love me and don't bow to women because I'm a man... coming from someone who initially had stated:

I'm feminist and i don't beleive that anyone is superior to anyone else.

Except if she's talking about men, in which case being a MAN they are haters.

Not all feminists are radical extremists so you shouldnt tar us all with the same brush!

But she sure is one of them... judging by her own words.

Feminism first and foremostly is about equality for women and we wouldnt have gotten the vote without it.

Is it? Evidence suggests it is first & foremost about bashing men in one form or another, whether it be about generalizing men or attacking the Y chromosome as a 'mutant'.

I dont understand why most people assume extremists stand for the majority.

Because people like yourself, Flaxseed, perpetuate the extremist view when one moment they say "we're not that bad" followed by a prompt "But I hate you 'cos you're a man!" attitude.

Let's not ignore your friend, kit123

i agree men are arseholes! lol

[frostyboy]

In response to this post:

Topic: What about the menz
A stupid argument, i know, but what do you say against those who use it other places, where you're not supported by a board of feminists who know how stupid it is?

Dawn Cayote wrote:

"Men in general have done very little to help the cause of feminism. Why should feminism give a shit about them?"

Or some variation of that.

[frostyboy]

Hmm. So is every group responsible for the conduct of individuals within that group? Are you implying that every man jokes about abuse and violence? I've been here a pretty short time, but already ran across one example of joking violence directed at men (A blogger, refering to entries she tagged with as I recall "boys are smelly and should have rocks thrown at them"). The jokes are, I'm sure, in response to some idiocy involving men, but is joking about violence in that case approving of it?

In response to the above post, Shira completely misses the point with this 'justification' for joking about violence against males:

How can you approve of violence that *doesn't exist*? Is there some epidemic of gangs of girls throwing rocks at boys because they smell? Men making rape jokes trivializes, and thus legitimize, rape, because rape is something that exists, and because men are the ones who rape. If rape didn't exist, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Do you see the difference?

[Marx]

Some classic feminist quotes:

http://www.myspace.com/antimisandry (Each quote is accompanied by the book title and page number where known)

"The institution of sexual intercourse is anti-feminist" -- Ti-Grace Atkinson "Amazon Odyssey" (p. 86)
"Feminism is the theory, lesbianism is the practice." -- Ti-Grace Atkinson
"I propose that the phenomenon of love is the psychological pivot in the persecution of women." -- Ti-Grace Atkinson, Radical Feminism and Love
"The price of clinging to the enemy [a man] is your life. To enter into a relationship with a man who has divested himself as completely and publicly from the male role as much as possible would still be a risk. But to relate to a man who has done any less is suicide.... I, personally, have taken the position that I will not appear with any man publicly, where it could possibly be interpreted that we were friends." -- Ti-Grace Atkinson, Amazon Odyssey (New York: Links Books, 1974), pp. 90, 91.
"In order to raise children with equality, we must take them away from families and communally raise them" -- Dr. Mary Jo Bane, feminist and assistant professor of education at Welleslry College and associate director of the school's Center for Research on Woman
"No woman should be authorized to stay at home and raise her children. Society should be totally different. Women should not have that choice, precisely because if there is such a choice, too many women will make that one." -- Interview with Simone de Beauvoir, "Sex, Society, and the Female Dilemma," Saturday Review, June 14, 1975, p.18
"[Rape] is nothing more or less than a conscious process of intimidation by which all men keep all women in a state of fear." -- Susan Brownmiller, Against Our Will, p.6
"Heterosexuality is a die-hard custom through which male-supremacist institutions insure their own perpetuity and control over us. Women are kept, maintained and contained through terror, violence, and the spray of semen...[Lesbianism is] an ideological, political and philosophical means of liberation of all women from heterosexual tyranny... " -- Cheryl Clarke, "Lesbianism, An Act of Resistance," in This Bridge Called My Back: Writing by Radical Women of Color
“...the presence of women raises the standards of ethical behavior and lowers corruption.” -- Hillary Clinton
“In many parts of the world, women and girls are especially vulnerable to HIV/AIDS because they lack control over most aspects of their life. Cultural expectations and gender roles expose women and girls to violence, sexual exploitation and far greater risk for infection.” -- Hillary Clinton
"Men who are unjustly accused of rape can sometime gain from the experience," -- Catherine Comins, Vassar College Assistant Dean of Student Life in Time.
"The male is a domestic animal which, if treated with firmness...can be trained to do most things." -- Jilly Cooper, SCUM (Society For Cutting Up Men, started by Valerie Solanas)
"Since marriage constitutes slavery for women, it is clear that the Women's Movement must concentrate on attacking this institution. Freedom for women cannot be won without the abolition of marriage." -- Sheila Cronan, "Marriage," in Koedt, Levine, and Rapone, eds., Radical Feminism, p. 219.
"If life is to survive on this planet, there must be a decontamination of the Earth. I think this will be accompanied by an evolutionary process that will result in a drastic reduction of the population of males." -- Mary Daly, former Professor at Boston College, 2001 Daly refused to admit male students to any of her classes at Boston College on the grounds that their presence inhibited class discussion. According to Daly, Women's Studies classes with men in them become "dumbed down."
"How will the family unit be destroyed? ... the demand alone will throw the whole ideology of the family into question, so that women can begin establishing a community of work with each other and we can fight collectively. Women will feel freer to leave their husbands and become economically independent, either through a job or welfare." -- From Female Liberation by Roxanne Dunbar
"I want to see a man beaten to a bloody pulp with a high-heel shoved in his mouth, like an apple in the mouth of a pig." -- Andrea Dworkin, Ice and Fire, (Weidenfeld & Nicholson, 1987)
"Marriage as an institution developed from rape as a practice. Rape, originally defined as abduction, became marriage by capture. Marriage meant the taking was to extend in time, to be not only use of but possession of, or ownership." -- Andrea Dworkin
"One of the differences between marriage and prostitution is that in marriage you only have to make a deal with one man." -- Andrea Dworkin, Letters From a War Zone, (Dutton Publishing, 1989)
"Marriage . . . is a legal license to rape." -- Andrea Dworkin, Letters From a War Zone, (Dutton Publishing, 1989)
"The hurting of women is . . . basic to the sexual pleasure of men." -- Andrea Dworkin, From The New York Times, Larry Elder, Smiting Moses, FrontPageMag.com July 10, 1998
"Heterosexual intercourse is the pure, formalized expression of contempt for women's bodies." -- Andrea Dworkin, Letters from a War Zone, (Dutton Publishing, 1989)
"Only when manhood is dead--and it will perish when ravaged femininity no longer sustains it--only then will we know what it is to be free." -- Andrea Dworkin, Our Blood: Prophecies And Discourses On Sexual Politics - The Root Cause, (Harper & Row, 1976)
"Rape is the primary heterosexual model for sexual relating. Rape is the primary emblem of romantic love. Rape is the means by which a woman is initiated into her womanhood as it is defined by men." -- Andrea Dworkin, Letters From a War Zone, (Dutton Publishing, 1989)
"Men are rapists, batterers, plunderers, killers; these same men are religious prophets, poets, heroes, figures of romance, adventure, accomplishment, figures ennobled by tragedy and defeat. Men have claimed the earth, called it 'Her.' Men ruin Her. Men have airplanes, guns, bombs, poisonous gases, weapons so perverse and deadly that they defy any authentically human imagination." -- Andrea Dworkin, Pornography: Men Possessing Women, (Penguin, 1979)
"Under patriarchy, every woman is a victim, past, present and future. Under patriarchy, every woman's daughter is a victim, past, present and future. Under patriarchy, every woman's son is her potential betrayer and also the inevitable rapist or exploiter of another woman." -- Andrea Dworkin, Liberty, p.58
"My feelings about men are the result of my experience. I have little sympathy for them. Like a Jew just released from Dachau, I watch the handsome young Nazi soldier fall writhing to the ground with a bullet in his stomach and I look briefly and walk on. I don't even need to shrug. I simply don't care. What he was, as a person, I mean, what his shames and yearnings were, simply don't matter." -- Marilyn French; The Women's Room
"As long as some men use physical force to subjugate females, all men need not. The knowledge that some men do suffices to threaten all women. He can beat or kill the woman he claims to love; he can rape women...he can sexually molest his daughters... THE VAST MAJORITY OF MEN IN THE WORLD DO ONE OR MORE OF THE ABOVE." -- Marilyn French (her emphasis)
"All patriarchists exalt the home and family as sacred, demanding it remain inviolate from prying eyes. Men want privacy for their violations of women... All women learn in childhood that women as a sex are men's prey." -- Marilyn French
"All men are rapists and that's all they are" -- Marilyn French, Authoress; (later, advisoress to Al Gore's Presidential Campaign.)

[Marx]

Tara Rose of "I am with you in Rockland" writes of her Father:

It's not very glamorous when you have to ask your deadbeat dad for money-

[bachelor tom]

"A woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle."

Associated with Gloria Steinem. The phrase is actually attributable to Irina Dunn. [wikipedia]

[Dr David Banner]

More From Andrea (RIP)


A commitment to sexual equality with males is a commitment to becoming the rich instead of the poor, the rapist instead of the raped, the murderer instead of the murdered.
Andrea Dworkin

All personal, psychological, social, and institutionalized domination on this earth can be traced back to its source: the phallic identities of men.
Andrea Dworkin

As long as there is rape... there is not going to be any peace or justice or equality or freedom. You are not going to become what you want to become or who you want to become. You are not going to live in the world you want to live in.
Andrea Dworkin

Being a Jew, one learns to believe in the reality of cruelty and one learns to recognize indifference to human suffering as a fact.
Andrea Dworkin

Childbearing is glorified in part because women die from it.
Andrea Dworkin

Erotica is simply high-class pornography; better produced, better conceived, better executed, better packaged, designed for a better class of consumer.
Andrea Dworkin

Feminism is hated because women are hated. Anti-feminism is a direct expression of misogyny; it is the political defense of women hating.
Andrea Dworkin

Genocide begins, however improbably, in the conviction that classes of biological distinction indisputably sanction social and political discrimination.
Andrea Dworkin

Male supremacy is fused into the language, so that every sentence both heralds and affirms it.
Andrea Dworkin

Marriage as an institution developed from rape as a practice. Rape, originally defined as abduction, became marriage by capture. Marriage meant the taking was to extend in time, to be not only use of but possession of, or ownership.
Andrea Dworkin

Men are distinguished from women by their commitment to do violence rather than to be victimized by it.
Andrea Dworkin

Men have defined the parameters of every subject. All feminist arguments, however radical in intent or consequence, are with or against assertions or premises implicit in the male system, which is made credible or authentic by the power of men to name.
Andrea Dworkin

Men know everything - all of them - all the time - no matter how stupid or inexperienced or arrogant or ignorant they are.
Andrea Dworkin

Men who want to support women in our struggle for freedom and justice should understand that it is not terrifically important to us that they learn to cry; it is important to us that they stop the crimes of violence against us.
Andrea Dworkin

Money speaks, but it speaks with a male voice.
Andrea Dworkin

No phallic hero, no matter what he does to himself or to another to prove his courage, ever matches the solitary, existential courage of the woman who gives birth.
Andrea Dworkin

No woman needs intercourse; few women escape it.
Andrea Dworkin

Only when manhood is dead - and it will perish when ravaged femininity no longer sustains it - only then will we know what it is to be free.
Andrea Dworkin

Poetry, the genre of purest beauty, was born of a truncated woman: her head severed from her body with a sword, a symbolic penis.
Andrea Dworkin

Seduction is often difficult to distinguish from rape. In seduction, the rapist often bothers to buy a bottle of wine.
Andrea Dworkin

The argument between wives and whores is an old one; each one thinking that whatever she is, at least she is not the other.
Andrea Dworkin

The common erotic project of destroying women makes it possible for men to unite into a brotherhood; this project is the only firm and trustworthy groundwork for cooperation among males and all male bonding is based on it.
Andrea Dworkin

The genius of any slave system is found in the dynamics which isolate slaves from each other, obscure the reality of a common condition, and make united rebellion against the oppressor inconceivable.
Andrea Dworkin

Undernourished, intelligence becomes like the bloated belly of a starving child: swollen, filled with nothing the body can use.
Andrea Dworkin

While gossip among women is universally ridiculed as low and trivial, gossip among men, especially if it is about women, is called theory, or idea, or fact.
Andrea Dworkin

Woman is not born: she is made. In the making, her humanity is destroyed. She becomes symbol of this, symbol of that: mother of the earth, slut of the universe; but she never becomes herself because it is forbidden for her to do so.
Andrea Dworkin

Women have been taught that, for us, the earth is flat, and that if we venture out, we will fall off the edge. Some of us have ventured out nevertheless, and so far we have not fallen off. It is my faith, my feminist faith, that we will not.
Andrea Dworkin

Women, for centuries not having access to pornography and now unable to bear looking at the muck on the supermarket shelves, are astonished. Women do not believe that men believe what pornography says about women. But they do. From the worst to the best of them, they do.
Andrea Dworkin

"Women's fashion" is a euphemism for fashion created by men for women.
Andrea Dworkin

You think intercourse is a private act; it's not, it's a social act. Men are sexually predatory in life; and women are sexually manipulative. When two individuals come together and leave their gender outside the bedroom door, then they make love.
Andrea Dworkin

[Kim]

Some on marriage and family.....

[I]"No woman should be authorized to stay at home and raise her children. Society should be totally different. Women should not have that choice, precisely because if there is such a choice, too many women will make that one." -- Interview with Simone de Beauvoir, "Sex, Society, and the Female Dilemma" Saturday Review, June 14, 1975, p.18

[W]omen, like men, should not have to bear children.... The destruction of the biological family, never envisioned by Freud, will allow the emergence of new women and men, different from any people who have previously existed. ? Alison Jagger - Political Philosophies of Women's Liberation: Feminism and Philosophy (Totowa, NJ: Littlefield, Adams & Co. 1977)

"In order to raise children with equality, we must take them away from families and communally raise them" Dr. Mary Jo Bane, feminist and assistant professor of education at Wellesley College and associate director of the school's Center for Research on Woman -- Do I hear YFS / DSS / CPS here??

"The care of children ..is infinitely better left to the best trained practitioners of both sexes who have chosen it as a vocation...[This] would further undermine family structure while contributing to the freedom of women." Kate Millet, Sexual Politics 178-179

f even 10 percent of American women remain full-time homemakers, this will reinforce traditional views of what women ought to do and encourage other women to become full-time homemakers at least while their children are young.... This means that no matter how any individual feminist might feel about child care and housework, the movement as a whole [has] reasons to discourage full-time homemaking. ~ Jane J. Mansbridge, Why We Lost the ERA, p. 100 (and you wonder WHY feminism ATTACKS home-making)

"How will the family unit be destroyed.... the demand alone will throw the whole ideology of the family into question, so that women can begin establishing a community of work with each other and we can fight collectively. Women will feel freer to leave their husbands and become economically independent, either through a job or welfare." -- From Female Liberation by Roxanne Dunbar.

"The nuclear family must be destroyed, and people must find better ways of living together. ... Whatever its ultimate meaning, the break-up of families now is an objectively revolutionary process. ... "Families have supported oppression by separating people into small, isolated units, unable to join together to fight for common interests. ... -- Functions of the Family, Linda Gordon, WOMEN: A Journal of Liberation, Fall, 1969.

"Feminists have long criticized marriage as a place of oppression, danger, and drudgery for women." -- From article, "Is Marriage the Answer?" by Barbara Findlen, Ms magazine, May-June, 1995

"[The nuclear family is] a cornerstone of woman's oppression: it enforces women's dependence on men, it enforces heterosexuality and it imposes the prevailing masculine and feminine character structures on the next generation." -- Alison Jagger, Feminist Politics and Human Nature

"The first class opposition that appears in history coincides with the development of the antagonism between man and woman in monogamous marriage, and the first class oppression coincides with that of the female sex by the male." [Frederick Engels, The Origins of the Family, Private Property and the State (New York, International Publishers,1942) p.58]

"The first condition of the liberation of the wife is to bring the whole female sex back into public industry, and this in turn demands the abolition of the monogamous family as the economic unit of society." [Engels, p.67]

Patricia Ireland of NOW has referred to the Congress of the United States of America as "twisted" for supporting such notions as marriage and family in a publication titled "Father's Count Act will hurt Women and Kids", January 28, 2000, by Patricia Ireland
*N* *O* *W* Action Alert -- October 20, 1999 -- Fathers' Rights Bill Advances in the House. This Action alert explains that the Father's Rights legislation before Congress is "bad for women and children" because it will "promote marriage" and "disseminat[e] information about the advantages of marriage", "promote successful parenting" and "disseminat[e] information about good parenting practices", and "help fathers and their families ... leave ... welfare". A plain reading of the Action Alert shows that when read in full context NOW will do ANYTHING to destroy marriages, families, and even children.

From Sisterhood Is Powerful, Robin Morgan (ed), 1970, p. 537: We can't destroy the inequities between men and women until we destroy marriage.

"[F]eminists who ceaselessly inveigh against their own oppression by men (often hardly specifying its exact nature) would ignore how they themselves have oppressed ? feminine women. It oppresses a woman who could delight in domesticity to tell her that her domesticity makes her a parasitic inferior to men. It oppresses a woman who yearns to stay home with her children to tell her she is worthy only insofar as she achieves in the workplace." ~ F. Carolyn Graglia, [ame="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1890626090/senseandsensibil"]A Brief Against Feminism[/ame], page 349

So long as we insist upon defining our identities only in terms of our work, so long as we try to blind ourselves to the needs of our children and harden our hearts against them, we will continue to feel torn, dissatisfied, and exhausted?. The guilt we feel for neglecting our children is a byproduct of our love for them. It keeps us from straying too far from them, for too long. Their cry should be more compelling than the call from the office." ~ Danielle Crittenden, [ame="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0684859599/senseandsensibil"]What Our Mothers Didn't Tell Us[/ame], page 143.

"The Feminists -v- The Marriage License Bureau of the State of New York...All the discriminatory practices against women are patterned and rationalized by this slavery-like practice. We can't destroy the inequities between men and women until we destroy marriage." -- From Sisterhood Is Powerful, Morgan (ed), 1970 p. 537.

"Families make possible the super-exploitation of women by training them to look upon their work outside the home as peripheral to their 'true' role. -- (Andrea Dworkin)

"Marriage has existed for the benefit of men; and has been a legally sanctioned method of control over women... We must work to destroy it. The end of the institution of marriage is a necessary condition for the liberation of women. Therefore it is important for us to encourage women to leave their husbands and not to live individually with men" from "The Declaration of Feminism," November 1971.

... No woman should have to deny herself any opportunities because of her special responsibilities to her children. ... Families will be finally destroyed only when a revolutionary social and economic organization permits people's needs for love and security to be met in ways that do not impose divisions of labor, or any external roles, at all." -- Functions of the Family, Linda Gordon, WOMEN: A Journal of Liberation, Fall, 1969.

"Being a housewife is an illegitimate profession... The choice to serve and be protected and plan towards being a family-maker is a choice that shouldn't be. The heart of radical feminism is to change that" Vivian Gornick, feminist author, University of Illinois, "The Daily Illini," April 25, 1981.

The belief that married-couple families are superior is probably the most pervasive prejudice in the Western world. -- Judith Stacey

"Since marriage constitutes slavery for women, it is clear that the women's movement must concentrate on attacking this institution. Freedom for women cannot be won without the abolition of marriage" -- Sheila CronanThe little nuclear family is a paradigm that just doesn't work -- Toni Morrison

"[M]ost mother-women give up whatever ghost of a unique and human self they may have when they 'marry' and raise children." -- From Phyllis Chesler, Women and Madness, p. 294

Barbara Ehrenreich, as quoted by Stephen Chapman, from Time -- Ms. Ehrenreich extols the "long and honorable tradition of 'anti-family' thought," waxing nostalgic for those early feminists who regarded marriage as just another version of prostitution. This deeply defective institution "can hardly be the moral foundation of everything else," she argues, pining for the day when "someone invents a sustainable alternative."Barbara Ehrenreich in Time: Only with the occasional celebrity crime do we allow ourselves to think the nearly unthinkable: that the family may not be the ideal and perfect living arrangement after all that it can be a nest of pathology and a cradle of gruesome violence,... Even in the ostensibly "functional," nonviolent family, where no one is killed or maimed, feelings are routinely bruised and often twisted out of shape. There is the slap or the put-down that violates a child's shaky sense of self, the cold, distracted stare that drives a spouse to tears, the little digs and rivalries...

[Dr David Banner]

Still Alive HHP and hating
http://www.hotheadpaisan.com/Pages9.07/PastIssues.html

[gaynorbarry]

http://feministing.com is alledgedly meant to be one of the mainstream feminist blogs, it even gets a regular link with the UK Guardian Newspaper as best of the web in Comment is free where all the alledged moderate feminist hang out.
barry

[frostyboy]

changeling said:

even with "consent", I'm not so hot on sex with men

As Feminist Goddess Catherine MacKinnon puts it: "Compare victims' reports of rape with women's reports of sex. They look a lot alike. . . . The major distinction between intercourse, (normal) and rape (abnormal) is that the normal happens so often that one can get anyone to see anything wrong with it."

if a man nags, or threatens, or otherwise obtains consent from a woman, it doesn't suddenly make it all "wholesome". all consent that men derive from Women is coerced; if not directly by the rapist in question, then by years of pressure and expectations from the patriarchy and society.

the way i see it, "consent" does not exist as some golden ticket for asshole rapists to get away with doing whatever they want to Women. so-called consent is nothing but proof of coercion.

[frostyboy]

srastro wrote:

Personally, I don't give a rat's ass about gender balance if men are the ones underrepresented. If, despite the complete support of the patriarchy, boys still refuse to perform as well as girls in school, screw them. They don't deserve to go to college.

I argued about this with an obnoxious male colleague recently. His contention was that the point of affirmative action is to ensure a diversity of viewpoints, so men absolutely must make up 50% of college students or we'll lose the male point of view. Bullshit. The point of affirmative action is to recognize and attempt to compensate for the ongoing effects of discrimination. And the "men's viewpoint" is everywhere in society, all the time. There's no immediate danger of losing it even if >60% of college students are women.

Would it be so bad to let girls reach their full potential, even if they do better than boys? I guess the world would explode if women started becoming substantially more educated than men. Harder to justify the pay gap, and all that.

[Marx]

changeling said:the way i see it, "consent" does not exist as some golden ticket for asshole rapists to get away with doing whatever they want to Women. so-called consent is nothing but proof of coercion.

That's a bit harsh! But, then since when was feminism about decency and suchlike?

[byslexic_danana]

Personally, I don't give a rat's ass about gender balance if men are the ones underrepresented.

She said it!

Would it be so bad to let girls reach their full potential, even if they do better than boys? I guess the world would explode if women started becoming substantially more educated than men. Harder to justify the pay gap, and all that.

This is exactly where the selective reasoning oh-so-typical of feminism kicks in; girls do better than boys at school? Girls are just better! A pay gap exists? DISCRIMINATION! MISOGYNY! SEXISM!