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  1. #31
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    Re: Judas on the Green: The Tiger Woods Affair

    Quote Quote from Timocrat View Post

    Hmm.. Taking a golf iron and smashing a very expensive car and hitting your husband is now called speculation is it? I must be out of touch. Yes she is a saint and innocent women who isn't an attention whore, and was a fashion model, instead of a brain surgen, because men don't like women with a real life and a brain.

    Her mother came all the way to America to faint because she is an old fashion woman too. From flip-flop to equality/old fashion rules and then on to back & forth we go, and where it stops nobody knows.

    I wonder if Tiger is thinking twice about the F4J action a few years back. As all his fair weather friends depart he could have had a legion of supporters if he had merely said something nice about having a good father and men being able to see their kids. To get loyalty you must show loyalty.
    Some friggin good points.
    The wicked flee when none pursueth. Proverbs 28:1

    'Rise like Lions after slumber In unvanquishable number - Shake your chains to earth like dew Which in sleep had fallen on you - Ye are many - they are few.'

    Percy Bysshe Shelley

    "When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty. "
    Thomas Jefferson

    The internet has been a lifeboat for men's opposition to the floodings of feminism.
    Celtic Druid

  2. #32
    Incognito's Avatar
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    Re: Judas on the Green: The Tiger Woods Affair

    Quote Quote from Lester Burnham View Post
    I am going to make one last effort to sink some reason into you. Tera.

    Well, actually I am just going to call you on what a bullshit human being you are acting like.

    The points CD are making with you are an exact mirror of what happened before that lead to this childish taunting on your part. You made personal attacks on me, totally unprovoked, and I responded with the same. And in that I remember clearly that because I called you a cunt I got an infraction.

    But the point was that in a war of insults you are to the battlefield what French Chefs are to humility. You suck at it and it makes you an easy target for the humiliation I handed you. You spent the night stewing about my inferring you were a basket case and you still can't get over it. And you still can't entertain the idea for a moment that it was you that initiated the exchange of personal insults to begin with. All of which paints you completely as the basket case I alleged.

    It's not a gender thing as Percy acts the same way. But I fear due to ingrained programming that I may have cut you more slack than I did him.

    So here is the deal. You and anyone else are welcome to come in here and attack anything I say. Tear it to pieces if you can. That is what I dish out in my supposed life in the public eye, not personal attacks people in MRA forums.

    AM can put up with you all they want. But I have the key in this area and to what stays. You put up some cogent points to my work I will engage you, but for now, you have the same options as I gave Percy. Come here to launch personal attacks and I will just delete your posts.

    I don't have time to negotiate with school children. And I care more about AM and the MRM than to want strangers come in here and see such a disgrace that reflects on all of us.
    LOL...you must really think you are something if you truly believe that I spent any time at all fretting over your petty insults. The one about the baglady...yes, that was colorful! I admired it, actually. Still do. You're right to say I do not possess the gift of writing like you do.

    Look, I wasn't personally attacking you. I was trying to illustrate a point about 'speculation.' You made a nasty-enough speculation regarding Elin, which could be right or could be entirely wrong. No one here really seems to be speculating after all when it comes to her- she's already been tried in AM's court and convicted. And everyone seems pretty o.k. with what Tiger did, and now we're hearing justification..."he probably cheated because of this or that..." C'mon now. This looks biased. Condemn Elin with no proof, and excuse Tiger with no proof...it's ALL speculation so far- even with the six women who claim to have slept with him!

    There's nothing here that is relevant to the MRM, except one thing, as far as I can see: what appears to be a lack of a thorough investigation into the damage done to the car and the marks on Tiger's face. Elin was able to turn away the cops several times successfully when they came to her door to question her. How many of us (yes women included) would have been afforded the same under similar circumstances? Was she allowed this because she's female, or allowed this because she's a rich woman married to a celebrity? Is it a combination of both?

    That is a question I would love to see answered.

    "Civilization can only revive when there shall come into being in a number of individuals a new tone of mind, independent of the prevalent one among the crowds, and in opposition to it- a tone of mind which will gradually win influence over the collective one, and in the end determine its character. Only an ethical movement can rescue us from barbarism, and the ethical comes into existence only in individuals."

    "Until he extends his circle of compassion to include all living things, man will not himself find peace."
    -Albert Schweitzer

  3. #33
    RebelliousVanilla's Avatar
    RebelliousVanilla is offline Established Member
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    Re: Judas on the Green: The Tiger Woods Affair

    Quote Quote from Timocrat View Post
    Hmm.. Taking a golf iron and smashing a very expensive car and hitting your husband is now called speculation is it? I must be out of touch. Yes she is a saint and innocent women who isn't an attention whore, and was a fashion model, instead of a brain surgen, because men don't like women with a real life and a brain.

    Her mother came all the way to America to faint because she is an old fashion woman too. From flip-flop to equality/old fashion rules and then on to back & forth we go, and where it stops nobody knows.

    I wonder if Tiger is thinking twice about the F4J action a few years back. As all his fair weather friends depart he could have had a legion of supporters if he had merely said something nice about having a good father and men being able to see their kids. To get loyalty you must show loyalty.
    The speculation thing was about her being an insufferable gold digging bitch, which really is just speculation, not that I'd be surprised if it was the case. But even if she was the most loving person, I doubt Tiger Woods wouldn't have cheated considering he basically had a harem.

    And she didn't model much actually, she worked as an au pair. Hell, if you don't consider modeling a real job, then Tiger Woods doesn't have a real job either - swinging a golf club ain't a job, no matter how smooth you are at swinging it.

    I'm curious about what real evidence is about her doing the golf club thing or who witnessed it. And yes, she was stupid. If she wanted to get back at him, she should have divorced and took him to the cleaners, get full custody and give some nasty details about him to the press to destroy any endorsement he would have got. She would have paid betrayal back with betrayal, instead of making a fool of herself.

  4. #34
    Lester Burnham's Avatar
    Lester Burnham is offline Senior Member
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    Re: Judas on the Green: The Tiger Woods Affair

    Quote Quote from Incognito View Post
    LOL...you must really think you are something if you truly believe that I spent any time at all fretting over your petty insults. The one about the baglady...yes, that was colorful! I admired it, actually. Still do. You're right to say I do not possess the gift of writing like you do.

    Look, I wasn't personally attacking you. I was trying to illustrate a point about 'speculation.' You made a nasty-enough speculation regarding Elin, which could be right or could be entirely wrong. No one here really seems to be speculating after all when it comes to her- she's already been tried in AM's court and convicted. And everyone seems pretty o.k. with what Tiger did, and now we're hearing justification..."he probably cheated because of this or that..." C'mon now. This looks biased. Condemn Elin with no proof, and excuse Tiger with no proof...it's ALL speculation so far- even with the six women who claim to have slept with him!

    There's nothing here that is relevant to the MRM, except one thing, as far as I can see: what appears to be a lack of a thorough investigation into the damage done to the car and the marks on Tiger's face. Elin was able to turn away the cops several times successfully when they came to her door to question her. How many of us (yes women included) would have been afforded the same under similar circumstances? Was she allowed this because she's female, or allowed this because she's a rich woman married to a celebrity? Is it a combination of both?

    That is a question I would love to see answered.
    I really don't think you know what is relevant to the MRM and apparently what is and isn't speculation. I never speculated anything about Woods wife. In fact, the very point I made is that nothing could be speculated about either of them except some things that were a matter of public record.

    Or is there some part of "For all we know" that you don't get is an admonishment not to speculate?

    I have said this to you before: Go back and read it again.

    Now please don't try to con me with "Oh, hey, gee, I wasn't personally attacking you." Others read it that way and so did I. So I have to suggest you not only go back and read what I wrote, but that you do the same with your own words.

    This isn't about writing skills. It's about basic communication. Something you should be above average at.

    So when you can go back and get my statements correct, and yours, I'll be happy to field any other questions.

  5. #35
    shaazam's Avatar
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    Re: Judas on the Green: The Tiger Woods Affair

    his wife now has him by his cojones

  6. #36
    Incognito's Avatar
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    Re: Judas on the Green: The Tiger Woods Affair

    When you say "for all we know..." it's an "admonishment not to speculate."

    When I say it, it's a "personal attack."

    O.k. thanks for setting me straight.

    LOL

    "Civilization can only revive when there shall come into being in a number of individuals a new tone of mind, independent of the prevalent one among the crowds, and in opposition to it- a tone of mind which will gradually win influence over the collective one, and in the end determine its character. Only an ethical movement can rescue us from barbarism, and the ethical comes into existence only in individuals."

    "Until he extends his circle of compassion to include all living things, man will not himself find peace."
    -Albert Schweitzer

  7. #37
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    Re: Judas on the Green: The Tiger Woods Affair

    Quote Quote from Incognito View Post
    When you say "for all we know..." it's an "admonishment not to speculate."

    When I say it, it's a "personal attack."

    O.k. thanks for setting me straight.

    LOL
    Tera, then let's leave it at that then. I don't wan't to witness any bad ill between members spillling into any threads this holiday season. I'm calling a seasonal animosity truce! Folk on this forum are going to learn to get together.
    The wicked flee when none pursueth. Proverbs 28:1

    'Rise like Lions after slumber In unvanquishable number - Shake your chains to earth like dew Which in sleep had fallen on you - Ye are many - they are few.'

    Percy Bysshe Shelley

    "When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty. "
    Thomas Jefferson

    The internet has been a lifeboat for men's opposition to the floodings of feminism.
    Celtic Druid

  8. #38
    Incognito's Avatar
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    Re: Judas on the Green: The Tiger Woods Affair

    Quote Quote from Celtic Druid View Post
    Tera, then let's leave it at that then. I don't wan't to witness any bad ill between members spillling into any threads this holiday season. I'm calling a seasonal animosity truce! Folk on this forum are going to learn to get together.
    O.k.

    "Civilization can only revive when there shall come into being in a number of individuals a new tone of mind, independent of the prevalent one among the crowds, and in opposition to it- a tone of mind which will gradually win influence over the collective one, and in the end determine its character. Only an ethical movement can rescue us from barbarism, and the ethical comes into existence only in individuals."

    "Until he extends his circle of compassion to include all living things, man will not himself find peace."
    -Albert Schweitzer

  9. #39
    Meadester's Avatar
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    Re: Judas on the Green: The Tiger Woods Affair

    Quote Quote from RebelliousVanilla View Post
    lol, you're not really speculating about the abuse though. That's like saying about a rapist that he probably committed genocide too. It's silly.
    Not quite the same thing. Nobody accused her of other crimes, just of being a generally nasty person. You wouldn't have a problem believing that a rapist was a generally nasty person, would you, even if he - or she - pretended to be nice to most people most of the time?

    That said, I am sorry to see this discussion degenerate into a series of personal attacks based on what seems to be a misunderstanding. Most of the Tiger-Elin situation is irrelevant to us. The domestic abuse is important, but this highly publicized abuse of a celebrity is no more important than the thousands of cases that go unreported every day (except for purposes of illustration - like showing how differently police treat male and female abusers). I would hope that this would not cause bitterness between people who would otherwise be allies. Can't we all just get along?
    Last edited by Celtic Druid; 13th-December-2009 at 10:46 PM.
    "...it is clear that anti-male bigotry is a widespread and dangerous virulent phenomenon. If Andrea Dworkin, Catherine Mackinnon, Mary Daly and their online groupies ... are not enough to convince you consider Valerie Solanas." - my words from my blog - http://funktardtroll.blogspot.com/20...ry-exists.html

    “Someone who agrees with you 80 per cent of the time is a friend and ally, not a 20 per cent traitor.” - Ronald Reagan

    Ohso is Julian Real's secret lover.

  10. #40
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    Re: Judas on the Green: The Tiger Woods Affair

    Quote Quote from Meadester View Post
    Not quite the same thing. Nobody accused her of other crimes, just of being a generally nasty person. You wouldn't have a problem believing that a rapist was a generally nasty person, would you, even if he - or she - pretended to be nice to most people most of the time?

    That said, I am sorry to see this discussion degenerate into a series of personal attacks based on what seems to be a misunderstanding. Most of the Tiger-Elin situation is irrelevant to us. The domestic abuse is important, but this highly publicized abuse of a celebrity is no more important than the thousands of cases that go unreported every day (except for purposes of illustration - like showing how differently police treat male and female abusers). I would hope that this would not cause bitterness between people who would otherwise be allies. Can't we all just get along?
    We can Meadster, which is why I made a post specifically attuned to this reasoning. You need to calibrate you're thinking accordingly.
    The wicked flee when none pursueth. Proverbs 28:1

    'Rise like Lions after slumber In unvanquishable number - Shake your chains to earth like dew Which in sleep had fallen on you - Ye are many - they are few.'

    Percy Bysshe Shelley

    "When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty. "
    Thomas Jefferson

    The internet has been a lifeboat for men's opposition to the floodings of feminism.
    Celtic Druid

  11. #41
    Meadester's Avatar
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    Re: Judas on the Green: The Tiger Woods Affair

    Quote Quote from Celtic Druid View Post
    We can Meadster, which is why I made a post specifically attuned to this reasoning. You need to calibrate you're thinking accordingly.
    I had missed that post before. I don't think I had refreshed my browser between the time I opened this thread and the time that was posted. I hope others calibrate their thinking accordingly as well.
    Last edited by Meadester; 13th-December-2009 at 10:56 PM. Reason: sp.
    "...it is clear that anti-male bigotry is a widespread and dangerous virulent phenomenon. If Andrea Dworkin, Catherine Mackinnon, Mary Daly and their online groupies ... are not enough to convince you consider Valerie Solanas." - my words from my blog - http://funktardtroll.blogspot.com/20...ry-exists.html

    “Someone who agrees with you 80 per cent of the time is a friend and ally, not a 20 per cent traitor.” - Ronald Reagan

    Ohso is Julian Real's secret lover.

  12. #42
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    Re: Judas on the Green: The Tiger Woods Affair

    Quote Quote from Meadester View Post
    I had missed that post before. I don't think I had refreshed my browser between the time I opened this thread and the time that was posted. I hope others calibrate their thinking accordingly as well.
    Good, then let's progress in a positive fashion..........

    Or, must I spell it out most harshly for the diplomatically challenged???
    Last edited by Celtic Druid; 13th-December-2009 at 11:08 PM.
    The wicked flee when none pursueth. Proverbs 28:1

    'Rise like Lions after slumber In unvanquishable number - Shake your chains to earth like dew Which in sleep had fallen on you - Ye are many - they are few.'

    Percy Bysshe Shelley

    "When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty. "
    Thomas Jefferson

    The internet has been a lifeboat for men's opposition to the floodings of feminism.
    Celtic Druid

  13. #43
    Incognito's Avatar
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    Re: Judas on the Green: The Tiger Woods Affair

    Quote Quote from Meadester View Post
    Not quite the same thing. Nobody accused her of other crimes, just of being a generally nasty person. You wouldn't have a problem believing that a rapist was a generally nasty person, would you, even if he - or she - pretended to be nice to most people most of the time?

    That said, I am sorry to see this discussion degenerate into a series of personal attacks based on what seems to be a misunderstanding. Most of the Tiger-Elin situation is irrelevant to us. The domestic abuse is important, but this highly publicized abuse of a celebrity is no more important than the thousands of cases that go unreported every day (except for purposes of illustration - like showing how differently police treat male and female abusers). I would hope that this would not cause bitterness between people who would otherwise be allies. Can't we all just get along?
    How do we know for sure she hit him at all? Sure does look like she did...she had what appears to be a motive. There is damage to the car that is suspicious, and injury to Tiger's face...we also have Elin's successful attempts at turning away the police. It all looks highly suspicious, and yet, there is no absolute proof that she assaulted him. And, in Tiger's defense, just because six women (I'm hearing the count is now actually 10) say he slept with them doesn't mean he actually did.

    It's all speculation so far. All we know is Tiger consumed mood/mind-altering drugs before the accident and we don't know if they were present in his blood at the time of the accident. He may well have been intoxicated and that could be the cause of the crash.

    Quote from a news article: "He was not given a breath test, nor was his blood or urine tested. Troopers need probable cause that someone is under the influence of alcohol or drugs to demand such tests, and they had none, Montes said. Such probable cause could include finding liquor bottles in a car or smelling alcohol on someone's breath.

    Kissimmee defense lawyer Don Waggoner said Saturday that troopers must arrest someone before they test for alcohol or drug intoxication. They cannot draw blood unless they can't get a breath or urine sample, and they can't take those unless they suspect intoxication, he said.

    "If there's no reason for them to believe he's under the influence of alcohol, then they have no probable cause," Waggoner said. "People have accidents all the time, and they aren't under the influence of alcohol."

    Probable cause would be the fact that he crashed THAT hard into a fire hydrant and tree so close to home. That would have been probable cause for you or me, but then we are not rich and famous golf players.

    http://in.news.yahoo.com/139/2009120...o-tiger-w.html

    And personally, I do not understand why Elin (and Tiger) were allowed to put the police investigation off...refusing to answer questions. Would law enforcement tolerate this behavior from any one of us? I highly doubt it.
    Last edited by Incognito; 13th-December-2009 at 11:32 PM.

    "Civilization can only revive when there shall come into being in a number of individuals a new tone of mind, independent of the prevalent one among the crowds, and in opposition to it- a tone of mind which will gradually win influence over the collective one, and in the end determine its character. Only an ethical movement can rescue us from barbarism, and the ethical comes into existence only in individuals."

    "Until he extends his circle of compassion to include all living things, man will not himself find peace."
    -Albert Schweitzer

  14. #44
    Meadester's Avatar
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    Re: Judas on the Green: The Tiger Woods Affair

    Quote Quote from Incognito View Post
    How do we know for sure she hit him at all?
    I thought it was an established fact. Is anyone disputing it at this point?

    Tiger did not press charges so the police did not and will not investigate, though a man who did to a woman who did what Elin appeared to do would be in jail regardless of whether the woman pressed charges.

    Quote Quote from Incognito View Post
    And personally, I do not understand why Elin (and Tiger) were allowed to put the police investigation off...refusing to answer questions. Would law enforcement tolerate this behavior from any one of us? I highly doubt it.
    So do I.
    "...it is clear that anti-male bigotry is a widespread and dangerous virulent phenomenon. If Andrea Dworkin, Catherine Mackinnon, Mary Daly and their online groupies ... are not enough to convince you consider Valerie Solanas." - my words from my blog - http://funktardtroll.blogspot.com/20...ry-exists.html

    “Someone who agrees with you 80 per cent of the time is a friend and ally, not a 20 per cent traitor.” - Ronald Reagan

    Ohso is Julian Real's secret lover.

  15. #45
    Incognito's Avatar
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    Re: Judas on the Green: The Tiger Woods Affair

    Quote Quote from Meadester View Post
    I thought it was an established fact. Is anyone disputing it at this point?

    Tiger did not press charges so the police did not and will not investigate, though a man who did to a woman who did what Elin appeared to do would be in jail regardless of whether the woman pressed charges.



    So do I.
    I'm disputing it only because as far as I know, it is not an established fact. It's a rumor that may have merit, or may not. At any rate, the cops allowed BS to happen to cloud the issue and now we probably won't know the truth unless either Tiger or Elin admit the assault took place or a witness who saw it happen comes forward.

    If someone knows of an admission by Tiger or Elin or witness, please post!

    "Civilization can only revive when there shall come into being in a number of individuals a new tone of mind, independent of the prevalent one among the crowds, and in opposition to it- a tone of mind which will gradually win influence over the collective one, and in the end determine its character. Only an ethical movement can rescue us from barbarism, and the ethical comes into existence only in individuals."

    "Until he extends his circle of compassion to include all living things, man will not himself find peace."
    -Albert Schweitzer


 

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