Throwing Hands: Self-Defense For MRAs
This is a discussion on Throwing Hands: Self-Defense For MRAs within the Strictly Manly anti misandry forums, part of the Chit chat (MAIN) category; Inspired by this video: http://antimisandry.com/chit-chat-main/white-knight-assaults-2-men-over-obvious-accident-40139.html#post259016 a thread devoted to coming off better than those chaps, and devoted to my friend ...
- 25th-May-2011 #1
Throwing Hands: Self-Defense For MRAs
Inspired by this video: http://antimisandry.com/chit-chat-main/white-knight-assaults-2-men-over-obvious-accident-40139.html#post259016 a thread devoted to coming off better than those chaps, and devoted to my friend T. Middleton who in year 10 was beaten up, and had a cigarette put out in his eye by a pussy-begging white knight and his friends. None of whom were expelled and only one of whom was charged though he never saw the inside of a jail.
First up I'm putting out a call to anyone else who would like to offer advice. Perhaps if we get a decent compendium we can petition the mods to set this up as a sticky. I want to cover various topics, but also to observe things from a legal stand-point. Anyone with advice, hints, reviews of useful gadgets or equipment or further please post with what you'd like added and I'll edit it into this.
My reasons for this thread are quite simple. Anyone who has an MRA or MGTOW style attitude, and who refuses to unduly reverence women is at-risk in most Western countries. Not only must we concern ourselves with potential assaults by white knights looking to curry pussy-points, but with women themselves whom research shows are growing increasingly violent. Too many women are aware of their legal position whereby they are granted de-facto immunity under the criminal code, and may assault men, and children with near impunity. If we are to keep ourselves safe, and express our principles, comport ourselves without respect to showing women undue reverence, and if, at times, our attitude towards women is combative such as when we stand our ground we must in the end be prepared to back our principles up with physical force simply for our own protection. Such is the hysteria of the gender-war, such is the calumny against MRAs and other 'regressives,' that too many people see us as non-persons, deserving of, or simply free game to insult or even attack. For the above reasons I have decided to start this thread. It is devoted to self-defence, and here we can discuss ideas, strategies, and methods for avoiding physical fights without simply rolling over in submission, and to avoiding injury in the event that one cannot, and finally to impressing upon potential attackers that one is capable of self-defence to better deter it in the first place, or in future. I will cover several different aspects based on my appreciation of these issues beginning with preparation and equipment, moving on to aversion and intimidation, actual advice, and lastly legal issues.
I should note something of my grounding in this area, and impress the fact that I am not taking this information from Wikipedia, nor am I inventing it as I go along. I started boxing at the age of 17, joining my first boxing gym, have had memberships at other boxing gyms in Surfer's Paradise and near Byron Bay although I revoked my lifetime membership at Boxing Works in protest a few years ago because they pander to women too much. That's irrelevant. The primary issue is I've worked in classes or with trainers for almost twenty years. I spent two years in a mixed martial arts class/environment learning elements of ninjitsu and systema aversion-reduction (second theory; it is about cultivating a certain mindset) however I will note that I do not approach things from this standpoint. I've done other six-month runs in Judo and Shotokan Karate. Keep in mind however I do not consider myself a martial artist. I have no belt (They did not use the belt system at any rate) I simply wanted to see what it was about, and to apply my punching skills in another setting to see how they stacked up. I have always carried a knife as a matter of personal policy. It is a useful thing to have, and self-defence was also an issue; in this country one cannot carry a firearm, or sprays, etc. for self-defence. I attempted to teach myself how to use this from books, but would not trust such knowledge far. I have worked in a one-on-one environment learning something like defendu (the instructor used a Fairbairn-derived system which is a variant of his famous gutter fighting) and in a class environment involving FMAs. I'm a licensed firearm owner, and shooter. I practise reflex/sports shooting with a pistol (although in this country my pistol is purely a sporting implement, and not something I may use for self-defence) but am more at home with a revolver as they fit my hands better. I love old guns, and fire a long barrel Smith & Wesson K frame, in .367, an old Webbley 'Savage Stopper,' in .455 (though its more a showpiece) a GP Browning in .40 S&W, a more modern Browning Hicap in 9mm (The double-stack browning is one of the few automatics whose ergonomics I'm comfortable with; the GP brownings are better though, best pistol ever made period imho) a Vis Pistolet (another show-piece, belonged to my great uncle) a short-pull SMLE, and an SMLE Mk V 'Jungle Carbine,' the first scoped for hunting (although it's a bit big for roos) and, lastly, a 1912 model Winchester 12 gauge. As said though none of this is really self-defence (the only viable ones for that are the Winchester, .357 and Brownings) all are kept unworkably disassembled, and in safes, but for the showier pieces which are in a glass case, though the pins are removed and I don't keep ammunition for them anywhere accessible. The rifles I keep upstate, not even in this house, however in the event of an emergency, disaster, I do practise so as to be prepared should I need to defend myself with such force. I realize though to an American this might seem like a sad arsenal; our gun laws are arbitrary and draconian. It has more to do with that, than any desire on my part for sub-standard tools.
To put it in perspective however I can count the number of times I've held a knife in anger. I've used one twice, although only once did it involve actual physical contact. I can count on both hands the number of times I've genuinely come to blows with other people. I probably have spent less than twenty minutes of actual real time fighting with other humans in situations of genuine conflict despite that I have lived in some of the roughest places in the country, and for many years was at home with criminals and drug dealers, yet few people (save military or police personnel) could say they have much more 'fight time,' logged. I say this to impress upon you the fact that there is, in a very real sense, no such thing as a guru in this field. Nobody should be listened to or obeyed uncritically. As a subject self defence deals with the preservation of your life, and nothing is more important thus it is meet for you to exercise your mind one-hundred percent, critically, insightfully, and intelligently process all data. Consider wisely what you do and do not do. Remember always as well that the best way to protect yourself is to avoid fighting all together. As my favourite teacher always told me is if in doubt you can always trust your feet. The primordial flight instinct will save your life more effectively than your instinct to fight, and it is this reason why most people default to it. I have spoken to psychiatric hostel orderlies, prison guards, and policemen and all have told me it is easier to restrain a fighting person than a running person. People who run commit to running wholly, with every ounce of their being, and call on adrenaline, and on their every ounce of strength and speed in a way very few people can to fight. If you try to stop someone who is running for their life you're liable to do more than get knocked down and run over. They'll get traction off your face if they have to.
Try not concoct elaborate fantasies in your mind about being cornered, or trapped, or somehow prevented from running. You can always run, making a path by force if necessary, and it is easier to escape someone than it is to render them harmless by way of force. Nevertheless I believe we should all aknowledge, as men particularly, there are times when it is right to stand your ground. Whether because you are not in the wrong, and are for galling reasons being victimized, thus for your pride, your self-confidence, or because you wish to impress the fact that you are able to protect yourself. You may be rendering aid to someone else, or you may be preventing someone else from coming to harm. Many reasons exist. Judge and weight them with acumen and good sense however. Take things into consideration. When you lose a fight, and there is always a chance you may lose, or if unable to protect yourself for any reason you become helpless. The person who has overpowered you may not cause further harm, but it is up to them, and you cannot effect their decision in any concrete way. Many hooligans and young thugs have no appreciation for how easily people can be grievously harmed by kicking or repeated blows, and kill or cripple by accident when in a moments rush they pile on with their mates in an act of revenge for a busted lip, or imagined insult. If you're at the bottom of the pile you might never get up again. None of these are pleasant scenarios, but they are the scenarios to which all fighting is inexorably bound, and drawn. Violent conflict is ugly, and though self-defence, and standing ones ground (especially on behalf of others) is noble it is tainted by association. There is no soundtrack, no baseball-bat hitting celery sound effects reel, no honour among thieves, no chivalry (save of the pussy-beggar sort which could see you kicked to death for standing up to the wrong man's girlfriend) no unconquerable heroes. There are humans, and human tissues, and impacts which may disable, kill, or put down.
Preparation - preparation covers, most importantly, physical and mental conditioning. Your combined state in these two areas should be what you consider most in guiding your ethos. Simply put if you weigh one-hundred and fifty pounds ringing wet, and stand 5'1 it does not make much sense for you to be aggressive, and always standing your ground belligerently in the face of threats unless you're phenomenally skilled, well-armed or mentally proficient. This is something over which we have limited control however, and it is wise to attempt a balance. If you are naturally aggressive, and prone to conflict, it is only intelligent that you be extra prepared, and thus attempt to keep fit, healthy and strong. Strength is important. Often people will claim martial arts compensate for a lack of strength, but to say an unfit weakling can fight because he or she knows martial arts is like claiming someone who knows the rules which govern a game of football can be part of a winning team even if he or she has no legs. Martial arts maximizes power rather than generating it, it sharpens abilities rather than creating them, it adds to, and increases, but it cannot stand in for a lack of fitness, strength, preparedness, etc. The best way to examine this is by looking at the dynamics of a punch. A deceptively complex thing, and in a sense the 'basic unit,' we use to cause harm to others.
Normally a person punches straight instinctively in such a way as to generate about 60% of the force with their arm (triceps, mostly) which is why when amateurs brawl they throw big, sweeping round-arm bunches which are clumsily telegraphed, and sweep their arms desperately in a wild arc (trying to generate more force centrifugally) or lunge foreword to throw their weight behind their fists. They're throwing from the shoulder, and putting about 60% more force, while the remaining 40% still comes from the arm. As a blow its much more powerful, but it won't land unless you're fighting a sleepy drunk. To truly punch, as in boxing, is to throw from the hip. You can learn to do this instinctively in a month or so while stationary, but to do it while moving, smoothly, requires you to learn shadowboxing and can take years, literally, the science of a perfect punch is incredibly complex and you could spend half your life pursuing it. Power comes from the thigh muscles on your rear leg, your hips, back, shoulder and arm, and in this fashion you can literally punch hard enough to break your own unprotected hand, and, quite literally, hard enough (if you possess the strength) to kill. It takes 0.1-0.2 seconds to land such a blow, and after putting up your hands it should not be telegraphed further. Unless your target is already moving when you swing they will be hit before they even realize you've thrown a punch (it takes about a quarter of a second to perceive, consider, and avoid an incoming threat on a conscious level) on reflex the best they might manage is to get their own hands up. My instructor always said of blocks 'you can't block a hard punch,' and it was quite true - the average persons shell will simply result in them having their own hands smashed into their face; watch a few boxing matches, and see how easily blows like this can knock out trained athletes who fight all the time. Knowing how to punch is an invaluable skill, but it will not generate something from nothing, and yields greater returns the stronger you are.
To take two disparate AM users, in the area of size, Caff is little over 5', and rather petite, while her husband SB is 6'4 and built like a wall. Simply learning how to punch, even perfectly, is unlikely to much help someone like Caff who, assuming she knew nothing else, could not reliably knock most people out, or down, or hurt them to the point where they would disengage, especially if they were larger and stronger than her, while it is unlikely a guy like SB (provided he could cultivate the correct mindset) would ever need to know much more than the basics of stance, guarding, and striking to confidently protect himself in many situations.
It's not fair, but it's life. If you're big and strong you can automatically fight better than someone who is small and weak; excusing freaks of nature. In the same way someone with a baseball bat is more dangerous than someone with a drum stick. However big should not be equated with height which is, in some ways, a disadvantage, and in other ways an advantage. Depending on how you fight. Taller people cannot put on weight like shorter people can, are a larger target, cannot protect their trunk with the same ease, and tend to get 'checked,' when closing in while shorter people can slip under such defensive blows. In general taller people should cultivate a patient, strategic approach, while shorter people should adopt an aggressive, rapid pace. Heaviness must also equate with aggression as the bigger you are the sooner you will get tired. The followed covers general strategy for persons of different shapes and sizes, with recommendations. Keep in mind however this is not a ‘strategy guide,’ for how to fight (there is no such thing, really, in my experience you don’t have time to think in a fight) it is a guide for how to think about fighting, in regards to the manner you prepare yourself so as to engage in a certain fashion, maximizing your natural advantages:
Taller, but Smaller - patient, defensive, distant - reach, leverage and stamina are on your side. Learn to use straight punches and jabs to control ground and keep them out of range. Long arms give great leverage for bolo punches and hooks. Low kicks to the knee will also help you dance around them, and long legs provide powerful leverage for kicks however high kicks should be avoided. Movement is important, but ducking and weaving will not need to be frantic; better to have a good block in order to guard low, as low blows will slow you critically. Exhaustion and frustration are your weapons as is cumulative head-truama. Consider joint manipulation which allows you to attack, or trap limbs without using brute strength.
Taller & Heavier - eager, offensive, distant - Intimidation, reach and leverage are on your side. As above, but offensively, battering them back and forcing them to stay out of range as opposed to giving ground. Master hooks and uppercuts which you have great leverage with. Learn blocks, or a shell more so than motion for defense as the later will give limited results - you're too big a target to dodge easily. Consider grappling and tackles on anyone smaller than you; in a clinch the stronger person almost always has the edge, and strength will usually be on your side.
Shorter & Smaller - patient, defensive, in-and-out - stamina, surprise and motion are not so much your strengths and what you must cultivate. Note all women should, by default, think of themselves as being in this category unless they're fighting other women. Learn to protect yourself with exacting care, but a shell won't be good enough you'll need to master parrying blocks, and motion - ducking and weaving - move frantically, and run them ragged, make them move. Cumulative head trauma coupled with exhaustion are your weapons. Learn to use your feet as kicks can equalize, and shorter legs give you slightly more freedom although kicking high is always a risk, and while you're kicking you're largely immobile. Consider joint manipulation which allows you to attack, or trap limbs without using brute strength.
Shorter, but heavier - eager, offensive, close - strength, motion and solidity are on your side. Being small, with good motion, and a hard static block you should be able to absorb tremendous punishment which is good because to get in close where you can do damage you're garuanteed to take hits. As above, but once in stay there and attack relentlessly. Low uppercuts, crosses, knees, even headbutts are all worth learning. Use your feet - you'll be able to put down most people with one kick once you know what you're doing. Consider grappling as well though, and even tackles (a prison yard rush for example) in a clinch the stronger person generally has the edge, and strength will usually be on your side. As will gravity.
The above are guidelines based on what I would do were I x, or y. As I said earlier by no means am I saying think about that in a fight; you will not have time. Think about it while you train so when you do fight you don't have to. Let it influence your training, and what you learn. Find a discipline which will enable you to maximize your advantages, or based on your physique cultivate the skills which will work for you. For example someone like me (6'5 and 200lbs) boxing, and a little kick-boxing works well because it teaches about controlling ground (keeping people out of range) motion, low kicks and straight punches which play into my natural strengths of having good reach and endurance. On the other hand, a shorter, thinner individual would not gain much from boxing unless he or she was an expert and could dance, duck, and weave with great skill. Such an individual might be better served by a martial art involving parry blocks, more exotic strikes using elbows or feet (compensating for limited strength) and joint-manipulation, allowing them to attack and defend effectively regardless of their lack of power and reach. Your mindset will also be key. If you're tall and skinny like me, but are simply a walking cyclone of fury you're going to need to change one thing or the other. Practise meditation, and learn to engage calmly, or bulk yourself up. The basis, and, this, the first, and most important element of preparation is simply all in regards to working with what you have, or altering what you have to something you can better work with.
Consider all points. Whether it is worth learning something in a class, or a one-on-one environment, or via videos or books, or simply self-teaching by way of practise. A very strong, powerful individual for example living in somewhere with better laws might choose to simply get a conceal carry permit, carry a gun (I will cover equipment more fully later) and thus decide there is no chance of ever needing to defend himself with his fists. On the rare occasion he has to he could rely on his strength to carry the day, perhaps augmented by a little self-teaching, or practise, reading a book, or hitting a bag at the gym. The main point about preparedness is to feel prepared, and confident. A person who feels he or she can take care of him or herself (even if they cannot) is far less likely to be attacked in the first place. I have discussed this before and will go over it again briefly: passive, meek, frightened, or uncertain individuals broadcast their passivity, their meekness, their fear and uncertainly. Many so-called 'alpha' males, and thugs or bullies of any stripe, and other predatory males or females, tend to be adept at cutting the herd, and smelling out this kind of 'weakness,' (which is often not even weakness, but simply civility, politeness, modest and self-concious decency or fear grounded in a reasonable appreciation of the danger) and quite simply only bully those people who appear this way. They seem unlikely to offer resistance in short. It is the mental equivalent of beating up disabled people, or children in order to feel big and strong albeit much more deceptive since few normal people are able to appreciate how helpless such people are. A man or woman who does not have a prepared, combative mindset however is quite helpless. It is the first thing that must go if you are serious about self-defence. This will also give you a better appreciation of who is helpless, and who is not.
You can learn to appreciate through the manner in which people stand, and walk, and speak, and how they hold themselves during verbal or pre-physical conflict whether they are dangerous, whether you should risk tangling with them. You can even develop tools for parsing people by offering a subtle insult which is unlikely to lead to blows, but then offering a provocative stance. Their reaction will tell you if they're prepared to fight should things go further, if escalation occurs, and even something about whether they can fight, or whether they're all talk. You will learn when other people are parsing you. If they do, and you respond in a manner that does not clearly say 'I'm ready to take your head off if you keep this up,' the average lowlife takes it as an invitation to attack.
That is all for now. I may continue later.
- 25th-May-2011 # ADSAdvertisement Circuit advertisement
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- 25th-May-2011 #2
Re: Throwing Hands: Self-Defense For MRAs
Interesting article. @ 5'7" and 165pnds, I have trained especially to go for the knees. As an inside approach towards a bigger guy, I prefer moving to my left and throwing down a kick to the outside of the knee. This works good for big guys. One, their weight is usually on their front leg if they are less trained, two, weak or strong, a knee is always weak. While doing this, a good shoulder shove may help bring him down. At which point it is a good time to run. I do not waste my time with grappling a bigger man. Even if I am readily trained in the arts, I have enough sense to know the limits of my strength. Using another's weight against him is invaluable to learn. It is hard to sweep a heavy guy, one must know when it can be done, practice will tell when he is off balance. Usually this is after a strike or lunge has been attempted, now is the time to shove, push, pull or even run.
Never over extend an arm when punching, many in the adrenalin of the action have hurt an elbow. Elbow strikes look cool and do damage, but will not work on bigger guys unless real close. I agree totally with Dad Savage, a small guy must rush in and strike fast and low, kidneys, liver, nerve points such as side of neck if your stance is not too low. Again, the most fragile point of a big guy standing is the side and back of the knees. Focus on those. Hitting a 6'3" man in the head area is hard for a 5'7" guy like me, my blow to his head has lost most of it's momentum by the time I reach that height. 6 inches is alot, low and level give more power when acompanied by rotation from the hips before throwing. This rotation must start from the balls of your feet, pas through back and inner thigh at which point the rotation of the hip/pelvic region will help harness the power from the legs into that punch. Lock the arm at an angle, fist pointed outwards, so your knuckles are in line with your center.
Lastly, remember, a head is very strong. It is an amass of bone designed to protect the brain, no use hitting it. Go for temples, nose or the side of the chin in an upwards and sideways motion. The trick is to twist the other guys head to move the brain in its envelope. This is what cause the famous one punch knock out. It is not usually the strength of the punch but the effect it has on the other opponents head movement. Articulations are weak points. Use them. It takes little stength to break an elbow joint when grabbing a wrist and pushing on elbow at same time. The same apply for the knees, but in this case, grabbing an ankle is not necessary because the weight on the foot is your hold, a simple thrust kick to the side of the knee should be practiced.
- 26th-May-2011 #3
- 26th-May-2011 #4
Re: Throwing Hands: Self-Defense For MRAsAn eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind. - Gandhi
Also, I think this theory of turning the other cheek is irresponsible when considering that placing myself in a situation of turning the other cheek would maybe render myself incapacitated or dead and no longer able to provide for my family.
Best to flee or defend when no other choice is present. A utopian world does not exist yet.
- 26th-May-2011 #5
- 28th-May-2011 #6
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Re: Throwing Hands: Self-Defense For MRAs
I can fight. I have taken some classes on grappling and some MMA stuff as an outlet for my anger. Fighting is one of those things I can do well and something I cultivated in my teens. If you ever get in a street fight, do yourself a favor and don't hold back. Remember, street fights are just that. Anything goes and there are no rules. If you are like everyone else, you want to get out of the fight as quickly as possible without incurring any injuries. So don't be afraid to take a shortcut and kick the other guy in the groin or immobilize him with a kick to the knee cap. It is literally hurt or get hurt when you are out there. If you are in a pinch and he has you in a hold, bite, scrape and punch whatever you can in order to escape. If you have any real training in martial arts, most of it is useless in street fighting, especially when I can bash your head against a brick wall or take a loose brick to your ribs.“We are each our own devil, and we make this world our hell”-Oscar Wilde
We're all hellbent on destruction... black days begin.
- 28th-May-2011 #7
- 28th-May-2011 #8
Re: Throwing Hands: Self-Defense For MRAs
I really don't see why a martial artist can't use the same said brick to the ribs or smash same said head against a brick wall. I just have more confidence than your average bloke who hasn't put in the hours I have for the sport, and more internal emotional control when in such a situation. Helps to not be hyperventilating from fear when in a combat situation.
- 29th-May-2011 #9
- 30th-May-2011 #10
Re: Throwing Hands: Self-Defense For MRAs
In my experience some trained combatants do over-rate their abilities. This does not just go for martial arts although there are many exceptions as well. Martial arts (belt system styles, low-end stuff) like boxing are more sport than combat skill. They teach skills which are vitally important in combat like self control, how to fall, how to get up quickly, how to stand so as to present a smaller profile and move while retaining stability for maximum leverage, how to hit and how to block. They also, unfortunately, teach a lot of moves and attacks which are essentially fluff. Like high kicks, throws, and wrist-locks which tend to have very limited utility in a real brawl. In this sense a nominally talented martial artist (sportsman) who enters a fight with high confidence, might do so in the mistaken belief that he is going to be engaging in an event something like sparring against another martial artist. In such a case he is unlikely to come off well. As SB posits I imagine this could lead to them adopting a less 'dirty,' style in the mistaken belief that they do not need to. I would not blame the martial art itself for his failure though. Any martial art will teach invaluable skills, but it will teach a lot of things that are unnecessary as well, things that are of value only in a sporting or sparing context. This is potentially confusing. It can skew a persons attitude dangerously. I would say, personally, I have two chief considerations whenever I consider the value of martial arts in regards to self defence:
Forget the belt system bears on my first point. It is confusing, and irrelevant, as well as potentially dangerous. If I recall rightly from my learning/studies the belt system is, itself, a western invention which derived from the fact that persons who obtained a certain, high-degree of skill at unarmed combat incurred certain legal checks. It is not a good way of rating a persons skill. There are a lot of people walking around who at a young age studied martial arts, obtained black belts in their young teens, but whose actual skill level is small. Persons can obtain a belt, and then do nothing for many years. They may end up unfit, overweight, sick, weak, etc. Yet they feel confident because of their 'black belt,' status. You must also keep in mind many of these levels are awarded on a sliding-scale basis: a 90lb woman who trains once a month, and a 200lb man who trains every day could both have the same 'belt,' yet it is not hard to imagine who is more dangerous. It is not hard at all for someone to obtain a supposedly 'high,' level of mastery in a martial art if they shop around, and find a trainer who is inclusive and lax enough, and practise an undemanding style. Personally I do not care what belt a person has, how many, or in what style, all I care: how long they've been learning, how often they train, what they're learning, and who they're learning from. This will tell you much more.
Examine the Man as above, many people look at martial arts as if there is some almighty qualitative difference between them. One year of Wushu is worth two years of Akido is worth four of Judo is worth six months of Tai Kwon-do is worth a week of Jiulong Baguazhangi's worth a year of etc, yes, while it is true there is a qualitative difference between some martial arts (there is a strong difference in the self-defence value of the internal and external Chinese systems for example) it is much more important to look at who is learning, how they're learning, and their level of dedication than it is to worry about what they're learning. An example is I know a lot of people who think Judo is quite useless, but I would take much more seriously a man in law-enforcement who was intensely focused on that system, training daily and attending classes very frequently, reading up, and physically training to improve their speed, strength, and flexibility so as to better apply those skills they do learn than I would somone who hopped along to a bi-weekly class to learn Tai Kwon Do (which has a higher reputation as a combat skill) but who did not train much, and was simply carrying along in the belief that a few years attendance would turn them into a deadly weapon. Why they learn is important to. Is it for self-defence, and are they cultivating other skills and abilities toward that end, or are they simply an anime loving Japophile obsessed with all things superficially Eastern? It takes no great skill to determine such things. The way a person studies is more important than what they're studying. No serious student of one style is going to loose to a slacker in another style simply because the later's style is supposedly 'more deadly,' although stupid films and TV shows might delude you into thinking this could happen.
It is true that in any combat sport a huge proportion of what you learn will be essentially useless. It is unavoidable, but it is not something limited to Eastern martial arts. Boxing, for example, will also teach you many useless skills. Training and practise almost always tends to occur in conditions which are very different to those of a real fight. Some self-defence or combat systems (non-sporting systems) take this into account, but the basic ingredients of such forms (Krav Manga for example, or Systema) are distilled from other martial arts. They simply divest of those things which are only of value in a sporting context. They emphasize the things which are important to defence, survival and power. This is something you can do just by thinking about it if you learn martial arts, and many do. It is hugely unwise to underestimate anyone who has learned a combat sport, by simply assuming they cannot apply their skills to a more chaotic, natural environment. They may not, but there is no guarantee. People with such skills should not overestimate themselves (underestimating the 'laymen,' as it were) but it is just as important not to underestimate those people who do learn, and work, and study: nobody who puts time, effort and hard work into learning something (in this case how to fight, even if it is only in a controlled environment) will be beaten by someone who doesn't (barring other factors) simply because their methodology is supposedly faulty.
- 30th-May-2011 #11
Re: Throwing Hands: Self-Defense For MRAs
Not a bad thread, DS. Self defense is something that I haven't had a problem with. I still my machete and metal bat in my car. I haven't had any problems with manginas nor feminists trying to square off with me. They haven't tried for the usual reasons. They are cowards who trample men that look harmless and have no desire to hurt anyone.Greed is for amateurs.
Knowledge without wisdom is a load of books on the back of an ass.
Scorn and mockery towards men in need is one of the reasons feminism is dying as we speak!.
- 30th-May-2011 #12
Re: Throwing Hands: Self-Defense For MRAs
From what I have heard, the belt system was actually, at first, a gradual color change due to original belt getting dirty over time. Example, white, color of the first given cotton belt to hold Gi or Kimono closed. As time and experience applied, said student would sweat, since washing the belt was not allowed, it stained to yellow. Green for example came from being thrown about on soft grass at beginning. Brown from dirt and red(blood) from more intense training. The belt eventually turned a blackish color after many, many years of training and filth. At which point, the student was considered a high level combatant. This was way back when. Does not apply today. Well, at least not north america.
There were no color change ceremonies and crap that we have today. There were no 10 color change steps as of today. There were also no pulled punches as of today, to "protect" from injury in training. In today's martial art Dojo's, it is kind of breezy and like doing a work out.
This is the reason I stepped away from martial arts in my late teens and gravitated towards a multidisciplinary style and one on one training. End result resembles what a UFC fighter trains for. I don't fight(usually). I just like the intensity I get from this type of training than the "flash" slap and retreat style of martial arts competitions of today. I don't mind a black eye, split lip or bruised rib, it comes with the training and reminds me that I can always be hurt, at any given time by anyone no matter their skill level.
Actually, I have been more hurt by novices than pro's. A novice has less control of their movement and strength. I remember in my beginnings, I broke someones wrist by holding on too long after a over the shoulder hip toss, snapped his wrist in my hands. Felt it before he did. It was lack of experience that hurt this guy, not because I wanted him hurt.
- 30th-May-2011 #13
Re: Throwing Hands: Self-Defense For MRAs
You're all wrong when it comes to the origins of the belt system,
It was first devised by jigoro kano the founder of judo he wished to provide some method of confirming proficiency to teach that could be worn on the gi he took inspiration from swimming, in japan novice swimmers wore a white cap while proffesionals wore black.
so he issued blackbelts to his senior students the colour system evolved from there.
Also this is aimed at dad your evaluation of judo is laughable I respect you but you could not be more wrong 6 months of Taekwon-do does not come even close to 4 years of judo.
Please keep in mind my screen name I'm not ragging on TKD I love TKD one day I hope to make it my lifes work but you have grossly underestimated the proficiency of judo it is considered to be one of the stongest martial arts.
Final point you mentioned how some schools just use the belts as a commodoty that is for sale and anyone can buy a blackbelt, this is true but it pains me to say that TKD is THE worst offender of this put simply it is a lot harder to find good TKD than it is to find good judo.
Last edited by s1taekwon-do; 30th-May-2011 at 02:43 PM.
- 30th-May-2011 #14
Re: Throwing Hands: Self-Defense For MRAs
Found this,All-Karate.com - History of karate belt colors
The “White-Belt-Getting-Dirtier” Theory
Another explanation for the colored belts, that appears more like a Karate myth than reality, is the notion that the belts simply went from white to black because the original Karate founders never washed their belts. They started off with white belts and after years of training ended up with black belts. The proponents of this theory assert that the belt, which was initially white, gets gradually dirtier and dirtier and so goes from white to yellow to green to brown to black in that way.
Many people argue that this theory is cute but has little truth. The dirtiest belt will never go black, and although the color change from white to yellow to brown can easily be imagined, other colors like green would be harder to achieve, unless the belt is host to a culture of particularly nasty and colorful bacteria, not unlike those that live in the back of my fridge. (Not to worry, I finally cleaned out the green goo. One day, from the corner of my eye, I saw it move. Now THAT was too much).
Repeated sweat and dirt from the typically wooden floors can indeed make the whole Gi become yellow and eventually brown. However, it is pretty tough to actually get a significant amount of sweat into the belt, which is more evidence against the “White-Belt-Getting-Dirtier” theory.
There is also real evidence FOR this theory. Many Karate dojos in Japan have a change room where students are able to leave their Gi ready for when they return to train again. As a consequence they don’t get washed and end up very dirty and smelly(!) with sometimes years of not being washed. These Gi go through the same color change as the colored belts. This practice might have been born from either laziness, cost-cutting, and perhaps also a bit of male machoism. After all, an old and dirty Gi must mean that its owner has used it a lot, and thus must be highly skilled. In that sense, the yellow/brown Gi functions exactly like a colored belt!
In summary - maybe the colored belt system was created with the color change of dirty Gi in mind. But maybe the colored belt system was just well thought-out and used because dying the belts was a simple, cheap and effective way of displaying rank!
- 30th-May-2011 #15
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