Article: Jenna Myers Karvunidis - UPDATE!

[Percy]

Make your own judgements about this exchange.

I can understand the outrage on Paul's blog, and his haughtiness. He does haughty well.

The points he raised in response to Jenn's outburst of misandry were measured and clearly made their effects felt.

The apology by Jenna - who did not have to come here - sounds heartfelt to me.

I sincerely hope that room can be made here for a woman who can say "I was wrong, and I apologise".

You need to develop maturity before you advise others or commit yourself to an unforgiving future.

Whether you wish to dismiss 'Jenna' or not is your bizzo; whether you can listen or not, it is an ability you need to develop; whether you have the strength and courage to forgive today does not mean you might never find them. This is Men's Growth bisiness. The war will be over one day.

Each to his own character and experience, but from some one hopes for more and from others not. Some acceptances are worth squat too. Maybe mine will prove worthless.

Being young obviously doesn't mean you are stupid, just as age doesn't equate to wisdom. You may need to hang on to that idea with some gusto as the attempts to shame you from your beliefs come to rise and fall.

All this stuff insinuating that if you don't accept an apology offered then it means you are unwise, or immature or misguided? Pure drivel. Codespeak for"Man up," which has become all the rage with feminists and white knights alike. Sadly, in a few places, MRA's are doing it to each other.

Who is shaming who, here?

I at least had the grace to confirm Paul's stance in his own blog and allowed that even I might be wrong.

Not enough it seems.

Duran will go his own way and assess on what he sees as merit.

[Marx]

That depends on who you ask.

Indeed, ask a feminist and they usually tell us that when we say 'feminist' we mean 'women'... ask a normal person (including MRA's) and they usually specify that there is a clear, a very clear difference.

To my mind, this is pure projection on their (feminists) part - it is they who claim they speak for 'all women' and say such weird things as 'every woman is a feminist'.

[KellyMac]

Indeed, ask a feminist and they usually tell us that when we say 'feminist' we mean 'women'... ask a normal person (including MRA's) and they usually specify that there is a clear, a very clear difference.

Agreed. And that's a good thing.

[Unregistered]

Considering A, B, and C don't apply in this case, I'm not sure what you're getting at, Popadibs. Read the whole thread.

I was married to a person who did demonstrate these behaviors. Believe me, this doesn't fit Jenna.

One (clandestine) feminist defending another

[Unregistered]

Agreed. And that's a good thing.

KellyMac and Percy are feminist trolls long embedded at antimisandry.com (behind the enemy lines!). Just peruse their posts and see them in their true colours!

[Duran]

That depends on who you ask.

I think it goes without saying that women and feminism aren't synonymous. I think there's a point to be made though, that women (and men) who don't fight against/speak out against feminism should be held equally accountable, anyone who can sit by and watch the destruction of their brothers, fathers and sons without caring, are just as dangerous as the feminists causing that destruction.

[christianj]

[Popadibs]

Duran. You are young and look to a future when you may have it worse, possibly, unless you do something about it.

Maybe what previous generations "did about it" is what got us to this point. In order to attain something we've never had we have to do something we haven't done. We can not do the same things and expect different results. We have to undo what generations even prior to you (unfreakingimaginable!) have done.

My generation that you dismiss as 'forgiving', have much to forgive that is actual and not simply expected. My generation has been through the mill. My generation has lost more than you have yet to acquire or are likely to. We have lost our children and you have yet to have any.

The question here isn't whether or not forgiveness is proper. Some apologies are sincere and proper to accept. The question here is about the sincerity of her apology. I admit that I haven't seen her blog but I believe there was no question that she was sincere then. If this is another "who has it worse" but between older men and younger men you could say that it is about comparable.

Older men have lost their children and younger men have lost the opportunity to be fathers (in many cases).

Sometimes folk here 'accuse' me of going easy on some and hard on others. The 'some' are always women, they say.

This is close to one of my "accusations". Heck, you ever heard of Mikey? There was a commercial where they'd be like "Give it to Mikey; he'll eat anything.". Man, I think you need your own slogan. Give it to Percy, he'll defend any dame.

Jenna has propagated negative stereotypes about 99% of men and comes on here with an apology that includes that there is an FBI investigation for threats we haven't even seen yet. Are these allegations of threats as authentic as her use of stats?

You forgive her, no problem, without doubting the sincerity of her 'apology'.

Duran is wisely skeptical about her apology and you come down on him like Thor's hammer. What Jenna did is worse than what Duran did and yet you overlook and accept Jenna but can't overlook and accept Duran as well?

Your tone with Duran is that of a verbal rod of correction.

Duran. You are young and look to a future when you may have it worse, possibly, unless you do something about it.

You know only a little about GI Jane feminists as yet or many others, and will no doubt learn much as time goes on. You may become even angrier. You may learn about yourself too.

My generation that you dismiss as 'forgiving', have much to forgive that is actual and not simply expected. My generation has been through the mill. My generation has lost more than you have yet to acquire or are likely to. We have lost our children and you have yet to have any.

Yet, I can listen and I can hope for an accomodation. I can listen and hear someone aplogise. I can exercise my forgiveness where I think it is due.

Why can you not?

I have fought 'hot' enemies and now am able to forgive them.

You need to develop maturity before you advise others or commit yourself to an unforgiving future.

Whether you wish to dismiss 'Jenna' or not is your bizzo; whether you can listen or not, it is an ability you need to develop; whether you have the strength and courage to forgive today does not mean you might never find them. This is Men's Growth bisiness. The war will be over one day.

Your tone with Jenna is that of a thirsty dog.

It took some time for me to get around to this thread.

I can understand the outrage on Paul's blog, and his haughtiness. He does haughty well. (oh my! saying Paul is haughty and does haughty well isn't an attack on another man's character?!)

The points he raised in response to Jenn's outburst of misandry were measured and clearly made their effects felt.

The apology by Jenna - who did not have to come here - sounds heartfelt to me.

I sincerely hope that room can be made here for a woman who can say "I was wrong, and I apologise".

It was a manly thing to do, and one or two here could apologise too.

Jenna, welcome.

I hope we can be of further assistance in smacking your bottom when you say something untoward, and please educate us with a few smacks when we go overboard too..... as we often do.

[Percy]

Pops, I thought I was quite kind to Duran.

Odd isn't it that we often talk of mentoring youger MRAs and yet when an older MRA tries to do that in a reasonable way, others jump on him.

So, why have you decided to jump on the bandwagon?

I am quite happy to give people chances, especially when they are new to this forum. Heck, I have given you enough when you have acted in just the manner you are now. I try to remain polite, even here, with you. Yet you seem to want to accuse me of something and see me as at fault.

Aren't MRAs supposed to be understanding with one another?

Just what have I said that has upset anyone? 'Haughty'? Is that it.

So are you Paul's lawyer?

Do you think he is such a wimp that 'haughty' will insult him and make him cry?

I defended his right to say whatever he liked on his blog and even said he was 'measured'. Did that escape your notice?

I didn't even mention that he was reporting what someone else said on their blog.

If I choose to hang fire before condemning someone who comes here and apologises for their past utterances then you just butt out. Do your own kneecapping if you wish but leave my choices of what I do to me.

Your opinion, Pops, is your opinion and I value your right to express it here, even when I disagree. Just leave me with mine.

By the way, saying that I was like a thirsty dog is fucking insulting.

Why do you feel the need to be so insulting to me?

[Duran]

before condemning someone who comes here and apologises for their past utterances

Her apology is not sincere, you really need to go read her so called "apology" and her comments section along with her actions on AvFM. If I thought her apology sincere there'd be no issue here.

I don't know much about you Percy, you seem like a wise and intelligent man but I have to agree with Popadibs here, why do you take issue with me rather than the person who caused it? She's the one who has done wrong and she's the one who should atone for it, if all it takes to be on good terms with feminists who help to damage us is a simple "apology" from them, then I'm afraid we're all doomed. People need to be held accountable for their actions, they need to recieve the same treatment and hostility they enforce on others before they can even begin to understand why their destructive nature is negative for all of us.

Imagine the end of WW2, would a simple apology from all the Nazi war criminals suffice for you? Of course not, that'd be absurd, right? Yet an apology from people in a movement that has helped bring nothing but pain and ruin to our society suffices? That doesn't make sense to me. I can't wrap my head around such logic.

Perhaps old age chivalry is at work here, Percy? See us young uns, we don't believe in that chivalry shit anymore, we wised up fast, I hold the door open for my fellow brothers, for a woman however, that door closes on her face, not out of disrespect, but fear that I'll be judged a misogynist for it, you know those dreams of growing up and being a hard working family man like my dad? Yeah, they dissapeared pretty quickly aswell, such is the damage feminism has caused and a simple apology (which wasn't even sincere at that) is all it takes for you to forgive such atrocity?

BAH!, is my reply, to such "kindness".

[Popadibs]

Pops, I thought I was quite kind to Duran.

That's a pleasant thought. I think you should be kind to Duran. Duran isn't the one that aimed an evil attack against men.

Odd isn't it that we often talk of mentoring youger MRAs and yet when an older MRA tries to do that in a reasonable way, others jump on him.

Yeah, Paul Elam and Jon are doing such a fantastic job with avoiceformen. An honorable mention should go to Dr. T as well. It makes my blood boil when those older MRAs are jumped on as well.

So, why have you decided to jump on the bandwagon?

I never leaped; I was part of the band. I suppose you didn't notice that while you were smooching Jenna.

In all seriousness, I was neutral but always had doubts about the sincerity of her apology. One of the things that stuck out to me was her mention of the FBI (gov't agency and we all know gov't aren't our friends). I could very well be wrong but I don't believe her apology yet.

I am quite happy to give people chances, especially when they are new to this forum. Heck, I have given you enough when you have acted in just the manner you are now. I try to remain polite, even here, with you. Yet you seem to want to accuse me of something and see me as at fault.

Well, Percy, you kind of remind me of Maury. If you ever watch Maury you'll notice that during paternity tests he always comforts the women no matter how at fault they are and he and his audience take a different tone with men. I've seen similar with the Steve Wilkos show when men were falsely accused of rape and were told "they need to make better decisions" and "even though it wasn't illegal it was still sleazy". Well, he and his audience were right in that. However, they were wrong because they didn't address that what the liar did was illegal (or should be a crime) and that she was just as sleazy for agreeing to do so.

I see you in a similar light. Percy, your intentions may be well but it's hard to keep an old dog from chasing it's tail (old habits are hard to break). I'm exposing your bad habits. You will never change them but if other men recognize them then perhaps they will avoid developing them. This serves as evidence that my "accusations" are true.

Aren't MRAs supposed to be understanding with one another?

I view myself as an MGHOW that identifies with the causes of an MRA. Yes, if everyone would truly attempt to be understanding with one another things would be better. I'm not sure, though. Based on my observation, it did not appear that you were trying to be understanding towards Duran. It appeared that you were trying to correct a mischievous child. Jenna is the one that initially did the harm. If her apology is sincere then I owe her and you an apology but if her apology is insincere then it would appear that you would owe Duran an apology. I think time will indicate that to us, though.

Just what have I said that has upset anyone? 'Haughty'? Is that it.

So are you Paul's lawyer?

Well, Percy, you think Paul is snobbish and arrogant but he is an MRA that educates men that wish to be educated. He does a lot to help young men avoid the pitfalls that await us in society and if you still think he's haughty you should also know that he's the one that brought me to this site. So there's another reason for you to love him, Percy.

Thing is, we could say the same thing about Jenna. Jenna is haughty. The difference is that she wished to help further preserve the propaganda that is so frequently used against men. She vilified close to 100% of men (99%). She has done nothing to educate men but has done something to vilify us and indoctrinate impressionable females. She attempted to create more pitfalls for men in society or at least strengthen those obstacles that already exist. Yet, I don't hear you singing the same tune about Jenna but embracing her like a long lost daughter.

You barely addressed her flaws but cut her a lot of slack. If you could cut her slack why couldn't you do the same for Duran or for Paul?

Do you think he is such a wimp that 'haughty' will insult him and make him cry?

I defended his right to say whatever he liked on his blog and even said he was 'measured'. Did that escape your notice?

No, I don't think Paul is a wimp. In fact, I admire his efforts. Paul has taken a stance and he has been consistent. Plus, he and I go way back like 8 track, okay, maybe not that far back but we go back far enough for me to trust in his judgement of character. I don't think he would lie on Jenna just to "win". She has already proven that she's a liar (99%) this apology hasn't yet proven to be sincere. I have to base my opinion on what she has already proven, meanwhile.

Actually, I noticed your little word of recognition. Was it an afterthought?

I didn't even mention that he was reporting what someone else said on their blog.

ooh, you tattle tale, you just mentioned it.

If I choose to hang fire before condemning someone who comes here and apologises for their past utterances then you just butt out. Do your own kneecapping if you wish but leave my choices of what I do to me.

If you want to be a brown noser, Percy, I'll butt out while your lips are firmly inserted in butt. However, if you want to dote a young man for not seeing things your way don't expect all of us to sit quietly and wag our tails like good little pups.

Metaphorically speaking, our barrels aren't aimed at you, Percy. I have no desire to fire at you whatsoever, however, if you decide to jump in the way and defend an enemy while our guns are aimed I won't hold my fire neither.

Your opinion, Pops, is your opinion and I value your right to express it here, even when I disagree. Just leave me with mine.

Sounds fair, yet, you couldn't leave Duran with his?

By the way, saying that I was like a thirsty dog is fucking insulting.

Why do you feel the need to be so insulting to me?

A thirsty dog is desperate for water. Is the acceptance, adulation and adoration of a woman, any woman, your water?

[Marx]

Guys, let's keep it respectful please - we do not need to be fighting amongst ourselves just because we have differing opinions on the sincerity of someone's apology.

Let's at least try to remain gentlemanly.

[themanonthestreet]

I like pie!!!

TMOTS

[Popadibs]

I like pie!!!

TMOTS

[Duran]

Paul, take Jenna off Register-her.com | A Voice for Men

Worth a read, good to see there's more people out there willing to punish people for their actions.