PUA's - friend or foe?

**Douglas** · 16th-August-2011

Quote from Percy

Get on with becoming more of the man you are supposed to be.

A fine man; a good man; a sound man.

A man of Integrity.

A man who is Authentic.

NOT a 'player' of 'Games'.

Surely, it is possible to be a fine, good, sound man of integrity and authenticity AS WELL AS knowing how to be attractive to women and not pander to them.

**Percy** · 16th-August-2011

Quote from Douglas

Surely, it is possible to be a fine, good, sound man of integrity and authenticity AS WELL AS knowing how to be attractive to women and not pander to them.

Yes. And to sail a hydrofoil, fly an Icon A5, paraglide up the side of Mont Blanc and wing-suit fall down again.

There are many, many things to do, and look good doing them, but first, you have a man to grow.

With luck and a fair wind you might find a woman who has done as much work on growing herself and neither of you need pander.

**Richard** · 16th-August-2011

Quote from Transhuman

Zuberi, your link is an interesting treatise which I'm still considering. My initial thought was if Game is the provision of what women want, not what they say they want and it is a conscious deception on the part of the PUA with the goal of sex, then I do not see it as a capitulation. The narrator suggests the payoff of game isn't worth the effort - I agree to me it is not hence I do not adhere to PUA philosophy. However, men have always competed for the attention of women; game is simply a recent technique. Whether it is valuable, as pointed out in your reference, sex of itself is pretty pointless however humans do a number of pointless activities because they enjoy them.

While I'm not sure I agree with all that was presented it is thought provoking.

Transhuman, a beautifully written and logical post - I sense a mighty intellect on your shoulders...
But...
You are assumig that the author was PUA. Well, maybe he was, maybe not. But the main point is that
1/We are palying the game THEY want
2/Its takes a lot of effort

Hmm, well, once you learn the basi rules, the "game" is effortless. And as for playig it on the womens ground, I apply ethical PUA concepts and I have put almost no effort now into meeting women if fact I am the prize for them (-:

Thus PUA stuff applied is US winning the jackpot. Its a pity most people attack PUA stuff without ever having really looked into what its all about, or else refer to the worst idiots in the game.

Ah, PS welcome to AM, I hope you will be appear frequenrtly and participate in the forum.

**michael k** · 16th-August-2011

Quote from Richard

. . . think a lot of the material should be taught in high schools to boys, it would solve so many problems we have!

Nice post Richard - gotta admit was skeptical of topic at first! Try middle school! Gotta remember the girls are generally wayyyy ahead of us in the "sexual awareness, targeting dept" . . .

My 11 yeaolds's rejection of his own mother and sister's "built in. naturally abusive ways" has been a real wake-up call for me, often deserves reciprocating, and am finally on the road to getting full, sole-custody!

**Richard** · 20th-August-2011

Michael, thanks for your vote of support - most men - on this forum and in the real world are quite anti PUA. I guess its a bit like porn - in public many will denounce it, while at home, they spend all the time downloading it!

Acutally, you are probably right about teaching it at middle school. My 9 year old son already has very fixed concpets about men-women. Indeed, I was following up some funy lego videos on You Tube and noticed "barbie" videos on YOu Tube - jesus, while boys are busy with lego battles, lego star wars, lego pirates, girls are ona whole new page - no wonder we are several steps behind (as men) as we enter the dating game.

**Zuberi** · 20th-August-2011

Quote from Richard

Indeed, I was following up some funy lego videos on You Tube and noticed "barbie" videos on YOu Tube - jesus, while boys are busy with lego battles, lego star wars, lego pirates, girls are ona whole new page - no wonder we are several steps behind (as men) as we enter the dating game.

The dating game is a complete waste of time and it is rigged so that men get shafted no matter what.

**Richard** · 20th-August-2011

Zuberi, do you really believe that?

As yo say its a game - but the rules are not written and you can (re)write them. Once you learn that such things are not set in stone, things begin to open up. For example, before you joined this wonderful forum - remember how you thought? Has this forum not opened your eyes and make you more conscious of what is really going on, so you have been able to avoid pitfalls? Its the same with PUA stuff.

**nickb275** · 21st-August-2011

Pick up artists are pussies. They are beta men trying to get some. Artificial in the least and give men a bad name.

If I where you, I would not engage in this sort of behavior. Better to attract a girl for who you really are. Makes for sounder communities and families.

**Zuberi** · 21st-August-2011

Quote from Richard

Zuberi, do you really believe that?

As yo say its a game - but the rules are not written and you can (re)write them. Once you learn that such things are not set in stone, things begin to open up. For example, before you joined this wonderful forum - remember how you thought? Has this forum not opened your eyes and make you more conscious of what is really going on, so you have been able to avoid pitfalls? Its the same with PUA stuff.

Yes I do believe it because the evidence is so blatant. Yes I do remember how thought before I joined this forum and my thoughts have not changed! I was never a mangina pincushion, nor a feminist cheerleader. My eyes were open long before I joined this forum and I've successfully avoided many pitfalls most men refuse to see until they've lost their footing. I stand firm regarding PUAS. They're no better than feminists. I don't believe I owe new age women a thing and I don't base my entire life on using smooth talk to "score" as much ass as humanly possible.

This video should give you something to think about.

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**le jacquelope** · 23rd-November-2011

Quote from Richard

Some are. That's like saying all those into kinky sex are wierd - and I am sure some indeed are.

PUA's materials it a bit like a gun, it is neutral - the iditobehind the gun determines the nature of the gun, I guess you met some gunhappy rednecks.

^^^ This. I absolutely agree. This should be quoted, like, epically.

**Marx** · 23rd-November-2011

Regardless of the idiot behind the gun - a gun has only one design objective.. and it ain't sharing happiness, now, is it?

**RebelliousVanilla** · 23rd-November-2011

If you're not getting laid, this means girls don't want who you really are so you either change or don't have sex or reproduce. Where the heck does this idea that people have to be accepted or loved for who they want to be comes from? It's silly and against anything that happened in history.

Men will be liked by women insofar as they have behavioral or genetic traits that make them worthy of passing on their genes and people in general will be liked by others as long as they either conform to societal norms or are badass enough to not have to conform to them.

Also, I'd like to point out that by definition, an alpha man is one that is popular with women, so if PUAs get more than you do, they are alpha-er than you. As a woman, I don't really fault them. Women today aren't more than cum guzzling sluts, so I'm unsure why they should treat them differently, while men are silly comfort seeking weaklings, overall.

Quote from nickb275

Pick up artists are pussies. They are beta men trying to get some. Artificial in the least and give men a bad name.

If I where you, I would not engage in this sort of behavior. Better to attract a girl for who you really are. Makes for sounder communities and families.

**Marx** · 23rd-November-2011

Quote from RebelliousVanilla

Women today aren't more than cum guzzling sluts, so I'm unsure why they should treat them differently, while men are silly comfort seeking weaklings, overall.

What a lovely opinion you hold. Will you be bringing up your child to view fellow humans in this delightful manner?

**RebelliousVanilla** · 23rd-November-2011

If society will stay the same, yes. There's no reason to respect Western men OR women, as groups. Respect the individual exceptions, but that's about it.

**Black Knight** · 23rd-November-2011

"PUAs - friend or foe". That's already a faulty premise. They're human beings. They don't all hold the same beliefs and doctrines. The answer is both.

As for the PUA system vs MRA thoughts, you have several types of MRA concepts. There's the MGTOW, there's the people who believe in construction, and there's the folks who believe in gender traditionalism. And there's those who are a mixture, unsure, apply selectively, or don't care.

PUA has it's uses, even for the MGTOW and asexual/homosexual. When you can instinctively read and manipulate another human's emotional state you can discuss our values in regular conversation without coming off as an activist. As in, spread the word.