Why MRAs fail.

[angryharry]

Hello Brad

I dont send emails to people like that, I dont send them to feminists either. I will express my outrage- in other ways.To me emailing to our enemies or the thoughtless buffoons that put that image up - has limited value.That is your choice.You clearly see emailing as a more effective tool than I thats fine.

I do not disagree at all with your view that emails here and there make precious little difference, but I have gone to some lengths to explain why I see this as somewhat different.

I have emailed and written to politicians in the past and been ignored.I will say that my activism has been designing dropping flyers and leaflets advertising your site and this one.

Yes Brad. Many MRAs have, indeed, done many things.

But, let me put this all yet another way.

***I*** have asked for some support over this issue. I have ***not*** asked people to create fliers or drop advertising leaflets or to spend much time doing anything. I have simply requested that we send a few hostile emails or make appropriate comments on that blog that I set up for the purpose.

What is holding you back from acceding to a very simple request FOR HELP from someone who labours long in support of MRAs? A request that will take a FEW MINUTES of your time?

So yes lets do more!I must go.Lets get thinking about other things which are active. Something better than complaining about misandry.

Firstly, you and Karl can call what I am doing 'complaining', but I would call it quite strong political activism. One thing that I do not do is spend a great percentage of my time merely complaining; unless, of course, you want to call ***all*** political arguments, 'complaining'.

Secondly, what, exactly, is this "let's do more" nonsense?

Do more?

Do more?

I can't even get you to send a ****ing email!

Something better than complaining about misandry.
Eg A dont pay a tv license campaign...Lets start a thread with suggestions which are legal and challenging.

1. Not paying the licence fee is **not** legal.

2. Tell me, do you really think that MRAs who cannot even be inspired to send an email on behalf of the cause are actually going to flout the law and risk a £1000 fine plus all the accompanying headaches?

3. What is the point in me promoting such a campaign when I know that I cannot even get you to post an email? Why should I waste my time asking people to help in a campaign when I know IN ADVANCE that they will not lift a finger to support it?

Lets start a thread with suggestions

No thank you. I've already seen more than 500 such threads.

In fact, I also get lots of ideas for activism from emails that I receive. Hundreds of them over a month or so. But I know that - at the moment - it is a complete waste of my time to promote them. And so I have to brush them aside.

Finally, I actually resent the notion that I am merely 'complaining' about things. My site is having quite an effect on many lofty people. But I just do not go around advertising this because it sounds like boasting. I am also **constantly** aggravating, harassing and threatening all sorts of people and exposing to their colleagues what they are doing. My site is also enlightening other men who happen to float in from the internet. And, I might add, it is also helping to agitate them. Furthermore, it contains a lot of good information.

And to help me in this huge battle, I have asked for some ABSOLUTELY MINIMAL amount of help over **one** particular issue - an issue that should affect ALL of us.

But your response is, basically, "I don't post emails."

So, tell me Brad. If the great Angry Harry cannot even get MRAs to send a few short emails, what makes you think that **YOU** can get them to mount some great effective campaign?

What have you got, that I don't have, eh?

And perhaps you can also tell me why ***I*** should support YOU in YOUR most effective campaign, when I cannot get you to lift finger in support of mine?

Of course, I am directing all this hostility at you at this moment Brad because you happen to have engendered it with your dismissal of something which ***I*** see as important.

But, with a few exceptions, I could say the same to most internet-based MRAs. 90+% of them.

But if YOU think that YOU - at this point in time - can actually do what ***I*** and many other LONG TIME MRAs have failed to do in the past then, either you've got something special that I don't know about, or you are deluding yourself.

And I haven't even mentioned the fact that if you ***really*** wanted support for ***YOUR*** various campaigns then it was somewhat unwise of you to antagonise someone who **might** have been able to help you by FAILING TO SEND A COUPLE OF EMAILS.

LOL!

Look Brad, you are one of my favourite activists at the moment. And I am, in fact, quite happy to take on scumbag Ray without further support. I'll have plenty of soldiers and others emailing him soon. And I actually become stronger by activating elsewhere. If nothing else, this beings more people to my site.

But you and Karl up there need to step out of these delusions of orchestrating some great campaign because, for some time to come, such notions are a complete waste of your time.

AND MINE!

....

Thanks Fidelbogen. Nice one. I shall take your advice and now spend some time listening to music and emailing some Aussie fire departments a link to my manhatred article about Ray.

[angryharry]

And, further, ...

This particular issue is one that MOST OF THE PUBLIC and MOST MEN are likely to agree with, or can EASILY be persuaded to agree with.

It is one of the FEW issues that thousands of men would agree on -particularly military men.

UNLIKE MOST ISSUES - over which we are often laughed at, and ridiculed -
this particular issue can help us to draw men to our point of view.

Most of the public are not going to cristicise us for complaining about the mocking of seriously injured men - and those that do can easily be hammered almost without restraint.

It is an issue that highlights and demonstrates almost perfectly how men are now being perceived.

And it does so **far more** than does, for example, the Boys Are Smelly Tshirts.

Furthermore, the public which is **not** outraged by those Tshirts, but, instead, mostly finds them humorous, CANNOT SAY THE SAME about mocking men with serious injuries!!!

So, here we have a VERY SERIOUS issue which is likely to be SUPPORTED by millions of people, and which we can use to create some 'action' and so, perhaps, open the eyes of many more men - and what do most MRAs do?

THEY IGNORE IT!

And you also might have thought that MRAs who claim to be soooooooo concerned about the demonisation of men might have understood that, ...

STEP 1 has got to be YOU DO NOT MAKE FUN OF MEN WHO ARE SERIOUSLY INJURED

STEP 2 And if you do make such fun, THEN WE WILL BE AFTER YOU.

Let me put this another way, even the PUBLIC can see that this is a much more concerning issue than the Boys Are Smelly Tshirts.

EVEN THE GENERAL PUBLIC CAN SEE THIS

So, why can't MRAs?

Eh?

[Marx]

http://www.watchersweb.com/sub_previ...fj2x1157327506

http://www.watchersweb.com/sub_previ...pwzx1158039941

[angryharry]

Yes Karl - a CARTOON!

But, of course, when we complain about misandric cartoons - even when violence-promoting - most people will ridicule us. But they will far less likely do this over photos of serious injuries.

Indeed, Ray has given us a small cognitive cluster blomb.

It will be of value for ***years*** to come.

But ONLY if we use it!

In TEN years time I will ***still*** be able to point to that horrible picture and its context, and say, "Look at where those feminazi bitches took us? Look at what our governments created with their perpetual man-hatred."

It is a **cluster bomb**. It will be effective in all sorts of situations.

Furthermore, that cluster bomb will actually *grow* in power as more men start to get more fussy about the way in which they are portrayed and demonised.

And, most important of all, BY A LONG WAY, is the fact that I DO NOT WANT TO LIVE IN THE TYPE OF WORLD THAT THIS SCUMBAG IS PROMOTING.

I would rather have feminism!

[angryharry]

But, of course, I have missed your point. Sorry Karl.

Yep; that scumbag seems to enjoy a certain type of humour - and I hope that you have read my article called homosexual sadism.

http://www.angryharry.com/esHomosexualSadism.htm

I think that Ray's face might soon appear on it somewhere.

[zenpriest]

What a great rant, Harry - and that is coming from someone known to do a pretty good rant of his own from time to time.

There are so many good points you just made that I'm not even going to begin to try to pick up on all of them. But, this issue goes directly the heart of why I changed my approach and my tactics about 10 years ago.

I know you have seen Braveheart. Being an MRA is a whole lot like the scene of the first battle between the Scots and Longshanks's army. When William Wallace gives the signal for the Scottish Lords to enter the battle, they turn their backs and ride away because they have been bought off.

I don't know if you have seen the movie "The Truman Show", if not, you really should. The premise is that a TV production company "adopts" a baby, and then televises his life 24 hours per day on a huge soundstage. Truman just thinks it is real life - it is the only life he has ever known - kind of the ultimate "reality TV." I won't spoil it for someone who hasn't seen it, but something happens to bring the show to an end. People have been watching the show for 30 years, watched every detail of this guy's life. When it ends, with a huge buildup and drama, there is a scene which really slams the TV audience. The screen goes black on this guy's life, after more than 30 years, and after a few seconds one of the viewers gets a blank look on his face, picks up the remote, and asks "well, what else is on?"

Most of the fledgling MRAs I run across have spent their entire lives being conditioned into passivity - and fear. And, they have been conditioned to dehumanize other men, just like the rest of the population.

I have one answer to your question why MRAs can get more mobilized over the "throw rocks at boys" shirts than they can over images of men being mutilated - because boys are still children and men still, despite every attempt to stamp it out, will always rise to the defense and protection of children - just not themselves, or other men.

What struck me even more than the point you are making here, about the SYG discussion, is that even among a group of people convened to "discuss gender issues", there was no consensus of outrage over the way that men, or even boys, are treated. Even the owner "applauded" Goldman for being "politically incorrect."

I, only partially jokingly, suggested the term MIB be used instead of MRA - Men's Issues Bullshitters. There is neither "Activism" nor "Advocacy" in most of the discussions I see. People want to "discuss", "dialogue", "talk about" the "issues", and when all is said and done - a great deal is said, and nothing is done.

I don't know if you paid any attention to the Battle of Forbes, but it was a complete rout - a slaughter. Five weeks down the line there are a few hard-cores left bayonetting the wounded, but in less than a week no more than 30 gender ninjas drove the femnasties completely off the field.

MRAs fail because they are afraid to engage. Younger men have been so conditioned into fear, and so lack models of real masculinity, that they are following the same strategies which have worked so well for the femnasties - trying to whine people, other people, into doing something about the problem. "Somebody call somebody."

We may be a bunch of wharf rats that Mike LaSalle burned down all his own forums to get rid of, but we are a bunch of mean SOBs of rats - and we didn't go away. What we lack in numbers, we make up for in focus and the willingness to go to the wall and hurt people.

People will stop this shit when we stop asking them nicely, and make them stop. Not before, not until. No bully ever stopped beating you up and taking your lunch money because you asked nicely - they stop when you stop them. Not before, not until.

Give me 10 ninjas, and I can do more than with an army of 1,000 men sitting on their butts.

[Fidelbogen]

So, tell me. How is it that MRAs are outraged by Boys are Smelly T-shirts, but not so very outraged by pictures mocking seriously injured men - whereas THE PUBLIC would feel the very opposite?

Well, I am like the public. I am more outraged by jokes about seriously injured men and less outraged by Boys Are Smelly T-shirts.

It doesn't quite make sense, does it?

Perhaps someone can explain to me how it is that MRAs can be so outraged AND so ACTIVE over something which is less outrageous and LESS vulnerable to their attacks (the Boys Are Smelly T-shirts) and yet so passive over something that is more outrageous and, yet, more vulnerable to their attacks.

It just doesn't make sense to me.

---------------------------------

Well Harry. Perhaps I can do a little something to inject sense into it. Let's see:

First off, regarding the "boys are smelly" merchandising conspiracy, remember that this has also included such things
as poking boys in the eye, throwing rocks at them, throwing
KNIVES at them, and....dropping anvils on their heads. All of
which could have lethal effects. And who knows, maybe one of these days Todd Goldman will come out with "Boys are animals, brand them with cattle irons", which gets into burn territory. I wouldn't put it past him. In one way, Todd Goldman is actually WORSE than Ray because he pretends to be cute, classy, upscale and trendy, whereas Ray makes no bones about what he IS -- give Ray some points for honesty at least! And Todd, due to his cute fluffy dishonesty, can penetrate market niches and demographic strata which Ray couldn't even hope to touch. I mean, just try to imagine teenage girls wearing t-shirts with the "arseburn man" on them, purchased from ritzy retail outlets. I sure can't imagine it. Clearly, Ray can't "get around" anywhere near the way Todd Goldman can.

But...I digress. I'm NOT trying to make the case who is worse, Todd or Ray,
just trying to shed some light on the thought processes of those who seem
unresponsive, to show how they might arrive at their behavior.

And... I am largely describing my OWN thought processes here, because I
have a pretty strong hunch that most of the guys at SYG were thinking
along similar lines. So....

When I first clicked on the link which you provided, I saw a ghastly,
sickening photo posted in what I assumed to be nothing more than an
obscure internet slimehole. And let's face it, the internet is chock full of
obscure slimehole websites with repulsive pictures on them -- they're a
nickel per 10,000! (Rotten.com comes to mind; but it's not obscure, and it's
downright tame by comparison.)

Initially, I had no idea this was a hugely popular website with traffic in the
100s of 1000s. To me, the part I saw looked like a crappy little thing
designed by a bad amateur.

I barely even gave a glance to the rest of the page the pic was on. I just
studied the pic, wondered how the injury had been inflicted....and then
I closed the window and looked no more. So, I didn't see if it
was filed under any category, humor or otherwise. That part escaped
my notice.

The picture failed to trip my MRA trigger mainly because 1.) It was not
evidently posted by feminists or by women, and 2.) It had no clear political
message, or subtext, or agenda -- sexist or otherwise.

I didn't see it as mocking "men's" pain, just a MAN's pain. Hideous and
vile it was indeed, but for various reasons it just didn't push any
specifically POLITICAL buttons with me. For me, be
it rightly or wrongly, the picture didn't register any precise political/
ideological link with feminism per se, or with the struggle against
feminism. And so I didn't see the bearing.

And as I said, I believe that I was thinking in tandem with the other guys
at SYG when I looked at the burn picture. I was thinking what they were
thinking, more or less.

Well okay, so perhaps we were all a bit "THICK". I'm not afraid to admit the
possibility.

AT FIRST, I had difficulty seeing the War Against Ray (W.A.R.) as anything
other than satisfying a sense of moral outrage against a cockroach. (An odd
use of artillery!) I couldn't see it bearing a structural load in "the
game", and to me "the game" is where it's at, man! And yes, I admit that I
am not always the best person when it comes to moral outrage; the
game's the thing!

BUT THEN... I started thinking outside the box. And I had a flash
of insight! Suddenly I became convinced that the W.A.R. did indeed "have
game". Somehow I was able to make a connection in my own mind in a
way that satisfied my own political instincts. I won't try to explain *how* I
arrived at my conclusion. I will simply state that i DID in fact arrive there,
which is all I need to make clear.

And for that reason, I am e-mailing to fire departments in Washington
state, telling them about "Ray". Because this little campaign could
make the juggernaut of the men's movement more powerful by pulling in
a broader range of issues and people than just the narrow "go for the
jugular" political gamester types like me.

Anyway, I think that if you had given the full information about Ray and his
charming website initially, with all of your pertaining thoughts
carefully fleshed out and assembled in a clear package like an action
proposal, it is quite possible that the desired MRA "swarming" effect would
have been effected, without the passivity you have noted.

And hopefully I've shed some light on your original puzzlement:

"Perhaps someone can explain to me how it is that MRAs can be so
outraged AND so ACTIVE over something which is less outrageous and LESS
vulnerable to their attacks (the Boys Are Smelly T-shirts) and yet so
passive over something that is more outrageous and, yet, more vulnerable
to their attacks.

It just doesn't make sense to me."

Perhaps it is simply because MRAs are such deep thinkers that they live in
their bubbles of hyper-analysis and have "slipped the surly bonds of earth."
Or something like that...

Gotta love those MRAs!

[Rob]

Now, if any of you are under 18, you have to get permission from your parents to read the following... OK? This is not one of my more graceful pieces of literature...

Look at what arrogant pricks these people are --- and yes, I know, I was pretty mad, I don't care.... this took only 15 minutes and I got a "hehehe" response...

No more screwing around with these kind of people, seriously! Enough of playing nice! Do you see the heheeheehe? Now, granted, I was not nice either, who cares? Now I'm mad! (Granted, I was not expecting praise, but these pricks think nothing of it! - Bunch of jack offs! - the heheeheehe was their reply to me!)

---

heheeheehe

-----Original Message-----

From: Rob Fedders <robfedders@yahoo.ca>
Subj: Hey Ray, You ****ing **nt!
Date: Tue 3 Oct 2006 3:08 pm
Size: 943 bytes
To: support@watchersweb.net

Ray, read closely! You man hating, worthless mangina!

I'll only laugh at shit like that if you think it's funny when I post
pics of your smashed in teeth on the internet to reflect what I think
of your sense of humour, you piece of worthless shit!

Explain the humour, you **m stain!

Don't walk down dark alleys!

Enough with dumb worthless **nts like you!

Smarten up!

Rob F

http://manhatred.blogspot.com/

Ps. You sensless pr*ck!

[Rob]

And by the way, if you Aussies are short of ice floes to set your miscreants adrift on... I think I can finagle you an extra! It's simple, clean and effective.

[Rob]

Rob says: This is the shit heads further reply:

Ray, the shitbag says:

YAAAWWWWNNNNN YOU SCARY LITTLE WANKER ...HEHEHEHEHEHE HAHAHAHAHAHA

Quoting Rob Fedders <robfedders@yahoo.ca>:

> Got your message and posted it for the public to see what a prick you
> are Ray. People like you grate on me and I will hound you to the
> grave, shitbag! Keep it up! Asshole!
>
> support@watchersweb.net wrote: heheeheehe
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> From: Rob Fedders
> Subj: Hey Ray, You ****ing **nt!
> Date: Tue 3 Oct 2006 3:08 pm
> Size: 943 bytes
> To: support@watchersweb.net
>
> Ray, read closely! You man hating, worthless mangina!
>
> I'll only laugh at shit like that if you think it's funny when I post
> pics of your smashed in teeth on the internet to reflect what I think
> of your sense of humour, you piece of worthless shit!
>
> Explain the humour, you **m stain!
>
> Don't walk down dark alleys!
>
> Enough with dumb worthless **nts like you!
>
> Smarten up!
>
> Rob F
>
> http://manhatred.blogspot.com/
>
> Ps. You sensless prick!


(Again, edited for Rob's Filthy Mouth)

[Rob]

Rob's response to absent Ray:

---

Where'd you go Ray? What are you chicken? Join the forum, explain to us that you are a big man! (I sent him the link... it's missing)

Thing is about men who are pissed off about little WANKERS like you, is I probably got a friend who lives down the road from you... You got a friend in Canada? You snot mouthed little wanker?

Take that crap off your website!

Shit is about to rain on your house!

---

No response from Ray...

[Rob]

Oh... Ray doesn't have ping pong smooth balls after all...


Ray says:
more to cum tosser ...im bored now ...i shall ignore you ..weak as piss
little girly

-----Original Message-----

From: Rob Fedders <robfedders@yahoo.ca>
Subj: Re: Hey Ray, You ****ing **nt!
Date: Tue 3 Oct 2006 5:52 pm
Size: 2K
To: support@watchersweb.net

Where'd you go Ray? What are chicken? Join the forum, explain to us
that you are a big man!

Thing is about men who are pissed off about little WANKERS like you,
is I probably got a friend who lives down the road from you... You got
a friend in Canada? You snot mouthed little wanker?

Take that crap off your website!

Shit is about to rain on your house!

[Rob]

Yawn... Further Ray correspondense... This shitbrain must be a teenager...

Ray Says: more to cum tosser ...im bored now ...i shall ignore you ..weak as piss
little girly


Rob Sent back to Spray:

Well Ray, you ****ing little WANKER...

Why don't you show all the REAL MEN in the world that you are one of them by joining this forum and explaining to them how smooth your shrivelled little nuts are that you make your living from poking fun of men who make their living getting injured saving YOUR sorry little baby bottom ass? Huh, this is going to be read by THOUSANDS of men, you treasonous little shit! Show you really want to be a man!

http://antimisandry.com/vbdr/forum/showthread.php?p=11154&posted=1#post11154

Come, Spray...

It won't even cost you a nickel, you chintzy bastard.

[Rob]

NOW, MY GENTLEMAN FRIENDS... ROB GOT WHAT HE WANTED FROM DIPSHIT RAY, FOR YOU TO SEE:

just a final note ....you and the fews friends u have ...are the same
...big tough warriors on email ...with empty threats ..but as usual not
enoigh balls to deliver ..just written threats ...see I earn more in a
day peddling my stuff than you would earn a year ...and I eat little
nancy boy email senders for you for breakfast ....so listen closely ...i
will post what I want when I want .....and you and your impedent little
friends can write emails to me ..my boss ...my staff all day long
...you know why ..cause me and the other million plus customers of mine
don't give a rats ass about you group your thoughts or you think you
protect .....we laugh at you freaks ...so here's the deal ...you carry thru
your threats and show me how strong you really are ...or just crawl back
to your hole ..and concentrate on what you do best ....nothing
......**** off scary blog man

Matter is closed until you can show something other than pissy email
threats ..dickhead ..


ROB SAYS: Lets not let this sorry excuse for testicles get away with this shit!

[Rob]

Please spread this dumb c*nts e-mail address to every MRA you know in the world, to every blogger... to everyone!!!!!!!!!

support@watchersweb.net


**** you Spray! Feel the Shit Rain on Your House!