RebelliousVanilla intro - female that supports the men movement

[brian44]

brian44, the initial idea of feminism was good. Where it lead is a disaster. If I would have been born in the 1900s, I would have been a feminist.

You might have been a suffragette, suffragist or women's rights campaigner. I doubt if you would have been a feminist. Maybe as you fought for the right to vote you would have campaigned for working class men to be given the vote too?

[brian44]

Women were not oppressed!

If being protected and provided for at the expense of mens lives is oppression...ah nevermind.

Poor men were at least as oppressed as women.

[Garak]

Poor men were at least as oppressed as women.

Poor men were MORE oppressed than women ever were, especially during wartime. Even today, it's no different. Most of the military is made up of....yep...poor MEN.

[RebelliousVanilla]

You might have been a suffragette, suffragist or women's rights campaigner. I doubt if you would have been a feminist. Maybe as you fought for the right to vote you would have campaigned for working class men to be given the vote too?

True, I would have fought for universal suffrage.

Garak, you're just as brainwashed as a feminist, only that you're fighting for the opposite idea. Your lack of understanding of social aspects is humorous at best.

[Garak]

True, I would have fought for universal suffrage.

Garak, you're just as brainwashed as a feminist, only that you're fighting for the opposite idea. Your lack of understanding of social aspects is humorous at best.

Excuse me? You're what? 18 years old? Still live with your parents?

You need to get out in the world and gain some experience before you tell others they are brainwashed.

If anything, I am the least brainwashed as my ideas are the least popular. Get a dictionary when you get out in the world too.

[RebelliousVanilla]

Excuse me? You're what? 18 years old? Still live with your parents?

You need to get out in the world and gain some experience before you tell others they are brainwashed.

If anything, I am the least brainwashed as my ideas are the least popular. Get a dictionary when you get out in the world too.

You have no idea about my life experience so I advise you to shut up. And brainwashing has nothing to do with popularity.

[brian44]

True, I would have fought for universal suffrage.

Garak, you're just as brainwashed as a feminist, only that you're fighting for the opposite idea. Your lack of understanding of social aspects is humorous at best.

I actually agree with Garak, he's taking a standpoint that's almost never heard, so I fail to see how he could be brainwashed. If anything he's challenging one of the most widely held myths in history.

[Garak]

I actually agree with Garak, he's taking a standpoint that's almost never heard, so I fail to see how he could be brainwashed. If anything he's challenging one of the most widely held myths in history.

Thanks Brian.

You see RebelliousVagina, taking the unpopular stance is not a sign of brainwashing...the opposite is actually more true.

[RebelliousVanilla]

I actually agree with Garak, he's taking a standpoint that's almost never heard, so I fail to see how he could be brainwashed. If anything he's challenging one of the most widely held myths in history.

So cultists aren't brainwashed, right? They believe in stuff that is different than most people and take standpoints that are almost never had.

[Celtic Druid]

You have no idea about my life experience so I advise you to shut up.

Not a very good attitude for an aspiring politician.

[Garak]

So cultists aren't brainwashed, right? They believe in stuff that is different than most people and take standpoints that are almost never had.

Some cultists are brainwashed yes but more often, the mainstream is more brainwashed.

[RebelliousVanilla]

Not a very good attitude for an aspiring politician.

Yes, since the media is invading privacy nowadays, this case might actually happen. Of course, I wouldn't lie to get elected and I'd sell the things I believe in. If I don't have success, I don't have success. This isn't a good attitude for an aspiring politician either.

[max]

haahoo, the social inequity of the 19th century was created due to abuses, not because of the free market system. Hell, all the financial crashes were created by governments that created easy money. Each and one of them, but the massive proportions of this last one is obscene.

i´m really no marxist but i have to disagree... the inequities of the 19th century were a result of unchallenged capitalism, industrialization and free markets. even adam smith pointed out that the total division of labour (ie. reducing the actual work of the workers to a single operation like adding a head to a pin) would make the working class dull, dumb and unhappy, tho it would rise the efficency of production and therefore lower the price of goods. there was also the argument that workers should only get the minimum wage because it´d be invane to pay them more (ricardo pointed that out) which was not nearly enough to provide for a family back then...

btw. charlie chaplin made great fun of this in his classic movie modern times..

marx took this concept and stated that the workers are being alienated from their work. thats why unions spawend as a much needed counterbalance to capitalism. his ideas are wrong on many levels and have been bastardized by a regime that was as bad as the nazi regime but his critisim is still point on.

all the dire aspects of capitalism and free markets still exist somewhere on this planet but through the ongoing globalisation they hit 3rd world countries and are mostly out of sight for us... there is an ongoing transformation to a service oriented economy in the first world so we aren´t confronted with the situation of the working class anymore. or do you really know how, where and under which circumstances most of the tangible goods we all are using are produced?

having finished that i have to point out that markets and capitalism are also efficiency machines and responsible for an unprecended growth of wealth and knowledge during the last two decades. entrepreneurship is imho the most important part of our economy so it has to be aided. as i said i´m no marxist...

[Male-Rights-Network]

And I'm not willing to give up my right to vote and so on. Yes, I am against preferential divorces for women, custody preferential shit, disclosing the identity of the accused in a case of rape and so on.

There's no way to change gynocentric divorce/custody law, etc., without taking away the women's vote. It's that simple.

I notice you give credence to the bogus concept of feminist "waves". E.g. divisions between "first wavers" (who were good and had no bad intentions) and "third wavers" (who morphed into extremists).

That's a paradigm I reject every time. All feminism is the same. You cannot realistically be anti-feminist without rejecting all of it.

Excuse me? You're what? 18 years old? Still live with your parents?

In fairness, some 18 year olds can have mature opinions on the world. Someone's age shouldn't automatically disqualify their opinions.

[julie]

There's no way to change gynocentric divorce/custody law, etc., without taking away the women's vote. It's that simple.

I notice you give credence to the bogus concept of feminist "waves". E.g. divisions between "first wavers" (who were good and had no bad intentions) and "third wavers" (who morphed into extremists).

That's a bullshit paradigm I reject every time. All feminism is the same. You cannot realistically be anti-feminist without rejecting all of it.

Sadly, you can't have a world that is fair without men and women voting.

It isn't fair to give a few the power.

It isn't fair to give men only the power nor women only the power.

Feminism would never had become as popular as it had if men hadn't failed miserably to be in charge just as women will fail miserably being in charge.

I often reflect 'the garden of eden' story.

God could have killed both Adam and Eve and made better humans when they ate the forbidden fruit. But he didn't because he gave us free will which meant we have choices.

The only way for God to rule is for men AND women to hand the power over to him and submit themselves.

With the failure of every attempt humankind has tried, we are nearing that time. IMO We are not the God's ourselves we think we are. Not as men and not as women.