You know what I say to mother's who whine?

[onegirl]

You're serious?

You don't already see this?

Sorry for being daft. If that is what it is. Perhaps I do not see it because I am Canadian?

[Garak]

Your views are extreme but I am processing them...

I support shared parenting 100%, I also oppose no fault divorce.

A marriage agreement is an emotional and sometimes religious agreement to stay together forever. It is also a LEGAL agreement. Therefore, both the husband and wife make decisions (including financial decisions) based on the fact that they have made a legal agreement to be with the other for life. Why does that matter? A wife and husband may agree that she will stay home to raise the children while the they are young, and once they are in high school she will go back to school. Or the husband may work to put his wife through law school, with the expectations that once she is out of school and has a job she will support him in his efforts to be a writer...

If the husband of the woman who had agreed to stay home with the kids decides to up and find a mistress to leave her with? She should have legal recourse.

If the husband's wife who he put through law school up and decides she wants to take up with another lawyer when it is finally his turn to work on his career? He should have legal recourse.

If you are the one to break the bonds of marriage you should pay the price. And let's face it. Someone facing a divorce that is not "no-fault" is FAR less likely to break their vows. Nobody wants to be known as the "reason" for the divorce and nobody wants to be on the short end of the money stick.

Marriage is an economic arrangement, hence the legal contract.

Traditionally, men have offered their labor in exchange for children and her loyalty to only have HIS children. She gets children too and she gets taken care of along with the children and all she has to do is give him children, raise them while he is off working and be loyal. That appears to be too much to ask of modern women.

Marriage is supposed to be mutually beneficial. No fault divorce has greatly upset that balance.

Sure love is part of marriage but at it's core, it is an economic contract.

On the religious side of things. I have been suggesting to Christians that they stop asking the state for permission to marry. For them, marriage takes place in the eyes of God and if they are to ask permission from anyone...it should only be God. When they ask the state for permission, they give the state control over their marriage. I don't know if God would look fondly on that arrangement.

Anyway, before I go off ranting again. You are right, the one filing the divorce is most certainly at fault if all he/she can say is: "I fell out of love". It's pathetic.

[Garak]

Sorry for being daft. If that is what it is. Perhaps I do not see it because I am Canadian?

When a court takes a child from a parent, it is demonstrating it's ownership.

You don't even need to step into family courts to see the government ownership of children.

One anonymous call to Child Protective Services or the local police will have the government at your door. You will be guilty till proven innocent and your children can be taken at any time.

Don't like the public schools? Too bad, if you don't send your children to those centers of indoctrination the government will come knocking on your door.

Wanna homeschool instead? Ok, well...first you need the governments permission to do so and your child needs to be tested every so often to ensure that they are learning what the government thinks they should learn. Private school? Almost as much government control as the public school.

Wanna spank your child? Careful, the government is leaning towards calling that child abuse...again...Child Protective Services will be knocking again.

Wanna feed your kid fatty foods? Careful, the war against obesity is beginning and....sigh

Need I go on?

[Garak]

Ron Paul doesn't talk around the subject of education.
"The federal government does not own our children," the presidential candidate says on his Web site. "Yet we act as if it does by letting it decide when, how, and what our children will learn. We have turned their futures over to lobbyists and bureaucrats."
Paul, a congressman from Texas, is libertarian at heart -- and has quite a following, known as the Ron Paul Revolution. Education -- and the freedom to learn outside the control of government -- is perhaps one of Paul's biggest platforms.
He often points out, correctly, that the U.S. Constitution gives the federal government no "authority to fund or control schools." If elected president, Ron Paul has promised to abolish the U.S. Department of Education.

http://www.infowars.com/articles/us/...r_children.htm

Interesting, yes?

[Garak]

More:

In his September 14, 2004 commentary, Congressman Ron Paul blasted the latest Communist ideology being put forth by President Bush:
"A presidential initiative called The “New Freedom Commission on Mental Health” has issued a report recommending forced mental health screening for every child in America, including preschool children. The goal is to promote the patently false idea that we have a nation of children with undiagnosed mental disorders crying out for treatment......The greater issue, however, is not whether youth mental health screening is appropriate. The real issue is whether the state owns your kids. When the government orders “universal” mental health screening in schools, it really means “mandatory...The political right has now joined the political left in seeking the de facto nationalization of children, and only informed resistance by parents can stop it. The federal government is slowly but surely destroying real families, but it is hardly a benevolent surrogate parent.”

http://www.newswithviews.com/Devvy/kidd64.htm

Surely there is no doubt anymore, the government thinks it owns our kids and sadly...so do many citizens.

You are from Canada though right, onegirl.

While I was researching all of this I ran into a story about a father grounding his daughter and her taking him to court (yeah, a 12 year old girl got to take her parents to court over being grounded). She won!

This happened in Canada.

Quebec Judge Overrules Father's Decision to Ground His Sixth-Grade Daughter


GATINEAU, Quebec, June 20, 2008 (LifeSiteNews.com) - A Quebec youngster has used the courts to avoid parental discipline in a "landmark" case. The 12-year-old girl, who is too young to be named, went to court to force her father to overturn his decision not to allow her to go on a school trip. Her father had decided to ground her after he found out she had posted photos of herself on a dating website against his wishes.
The sixth grader then took her father to court, arguing that his punishments were too severe.
Madam Justice Suzanne Tessier of the Quebec Superior Court ruled today that denying the girl permission to go on the school trip was an excessive punishment. The girl's lawyer, Lucie Fortin, said, "She's becoming a big girl" and described the school trip as "a unique event in her life", the Globe and Mail reported.
In arguing the case, Fortin cited Sections 159 and 604 of the Quebec Civil Code, which allow minors in some circumstances to initiate court proceedings relating to the exercise of parental authority. Section 159 is used in "extreme circumstances", such as cases of parental negligence.

http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2008/jun/08062009.html

I think I have made my point. I'll bet there are similar stories in all feminized nations where the family unit has been destroyed.

If you still need more proof, don't hesitate to ask. The government owns the children and they know it. Deep down, so does everyone. Most accept it, do you?

[outdoors]

they may think they do but i will NEVER accept it.

[outdoors]

Dude, not sure what you mean???

sorry Percy--maybe it is not garbage---but....consider the threads she has started...for a newbie on a men's rights site -i feel its pretty brave-i dare anyone to reverse the genders on a site like feministing. I almost feel she is trying to get a re-action.

Why ask if we feel she has been abused? It is obvious she already knew that-so why does she need our acknowledgment?--maybe i am paranoid?,,,but somethin don't feel right about her questions and i thought this was about her husbands problems-not hers

now this thread--its like she wants someone to bite in and say somethin-that could be used against us(its like a dare)--i just dare anyone to go to a fem site,reverse the genders and post the same shit--see what happens

[Stan]

No fault divorce has greatly upset that balance.

Not to mention we PAY one of the sides to divorce, in effect.

They walk into court on a red carpet ride and have money and perks thrown their way. They know before they even get married that if there is one bump in the road or if a bigger/better deal comes along they can just dump the guy. And face no stigma, no examination of their behavior, minimal upsets in lifestyle, the kids, and an option to torture their ex for entertainment if that would please them. With the cops ready to assist, women's shelters ready to take her side and provide encouragement. On and on.

One of my friends, a Doctor, is terrified of his wife who keeps threatening divorce. His accountant tells him to just give her whatever she wants since he would be creamed financially if they split up. What a way to live!!!

[Stan]

It's not new that the government has stuck it's schnauser in peoples business. It's the main reason the Puritans, Pilgrims and others fled to America.

Maybe opressive government intrusion is the reason the Human Race has succeeded? It encouraged the first humans to wander in search of better lands after all.

It would be nice if we had a new continent or planet as an option. I think it would prove popular.

At the time the Americas became widely reachable by normal people, it really *was* the New World.

[Garak]

sorry Percy--maybe it is not garbage---but....consider the threads she has started...for a newbie on a men's rights site -i feel its pretty brave-i dare anyone to reverse the genders on a site like feministing. I almost feel she is trying to get a re-action.

Why ask if we feel she has been abused? It is obvious she already knew that-so why does she need our acknowledgment?--maybe i am paranoid?,,,but somethin don't feel right about her questions and i thought this was about her husbands problems-not hers

now this thread--its like she wants someone to bite in and say somethin-that could be used against us(its like a dare)--i just dare anyone to go to a fem site,reverse the genders and post the same shit--see what happens

If we went to a fem site and tried to post shit like that, we would be called trolls.

[Garak]

Maybe opressive government intrusion is the reason the Human Race has succeeded? It encouraged the first humans to wander in search of better lands after all.

It would be nice if we had a new continent or planet as an option. I think it would prove popular.

At the time the Americas became widely reachable by normal people, it really *was* the New World.

I'm trying to understand this, you want oppressive government?

[onegirl]

now this thread--its like she wants someone to bite in and say somethin-that could be used against us(its like a dare)--i just dare anyone to go to a fem site,reverse the genders and post the same shit--see what happens

I would expect that you men would act far BETTER than a bunch of feminazis and so far I am correct in that.

[Garak]

I would expect that you men would act far BETTER than a bunch of feminazis and so far I am correct in that.

...and we do. Being suspicious is not overreacting.

It's just that some of the topics and the things you have said have set off my alarm as well.

For example, I mentioned that it was rare for a person to change so drastically from one lover to the next. I attributed it to you maturing between the two relationships but it's still rare and makes one suspicious.

You handled that well so I dropped it but take this thread for example.

Great topic but it sounds like you are "honking your own horn" which is kinda brave for a newbie female on a Mens Rights sight. It's like you are trying very hard for acceptance from us. Something we are not used to and therefore find suspicious.

Food for thought.

[Garak]

Now onegirl.

Have I proven my case? Do you still question the governments power over your children? The powers they exercise are indeed the powers of ownership.

Fact is, the central location of most of the power comes from the family courts. Who does CPS report to? Who do the schools report to? Who do YOU report to?

Yes, indeed. Parents go to the court to be told who can and can have their children, what money must be paid in the name of the children and the visitation schedule for the other parent. The children are on loan to you and can be taken back at the will of government.

[onegirl]

...and we do. Being suspicious is not overreacting.

I get that.

It's just that some of the topics and the things you have said have set off my alarm as well.

For example, I mentioned that it was rare for a person to change so drastically from one lover to the next. I attributed it to you maturing between the two relationships but it's still rare and makes one suspicious.

Well, I think we sometimes react to what is presented to us. I reacted a certain way towards the way my ex treated me and I react a different way towards the very different treatment I get from my husband.

Also, my ex was my first really serious bf. I met him at 18. I was still a child when we started dating and really did not understand how to act in an adult relationship. By the time I met my husband I was 26. Was I a completely different person at 26 than I was at 18? Not entirely but I had grown up A LOT.

Great topic but it sounds like you are "honking your own horn" which is kinda brave for a newbie female on a Mens Rights sight. It's like you are trying very hard for acceptance from us. Something we are not used to and therefore find suspicious.

Food for thought.

Honking my horn, hey? I am FAR from perfect. I am overly emotional, somewhat controlling, have a tendency to be jealous, and like a lot of attention.

But I do have my good points.

My husband seems to think I am worth the inconvenience.