So, Victoria, Care To Back This Up?

[Percy]

Yes, the contributions were equal

Neither was of greater value

The crude apologia in the third rambling answer talks of 'lives' as though they meant as much as going down to the shops for milk.

Are lives not of incalculable value ?

I am profoundly sorry for your mental condition.

I am profoundly angry at your elevation of what a man would consider 'ordinary'.; work and homelife, just because women were the ones doing that. And the devaluation of men dying, being gassed, having legs and arms blown off etc to be equivalent in value just because it was men.

It is such an attitude, a complete lacking in empathy and understanding that so infuriates men.

I do not believe you claiming you would feel the same if the genders were reversed. I think this is an example of intellectual cowardice and intellectually dishonesty.

You just don't get it.

[VictoriaSparda]

The crude apologia in the third rambling answer talks of 'lives' as though they meant as much as going down to the shops for milk.

Are lives not of incalculable value ?

I am profoundly sorry for your mental condition.

I am profoundly angry at your elevation of what a man would consider 'ordinary'.; work and homelife, just because women were the ones doing that. And the devaluation of men dying, being gassed, having legs and arms blown off etc to be equivalent in value just because it was men.

It is such an attitude, a complete lacking in empathy and understanding that so infuriates men.

I do not believe you claiming you would feel the same if the genders were reversed. I think this is an example of intellectual cowardice and intellectually dishonesty.

You just don't get it.

Maybe you missed this statment:

I am not trying to downplay the sacrifice of lives as life is the most valuable thing

And honestly, if you believe me or not is up to you, I won't lose any sleep over it.

Lives are valuable, there's no ifs ands or buts about it. The men who died in that war deserve respect and honor more than any human being alive today, they proved themselves and it is sad that they died when they should have had the chance to live the rest of their lives.

I did not know those men, but I am thankful for their sacrifices.

Sadly, however, there are still men today who think like the ones I have quoted in my blog (this entry to be exact: http://victoriasparda.wordpress.com/...longer-needed/ ) but it seems those get ignored by anti-feminists or get defended by being called "justified" or a reaction to feminism, even though many of the screenshoted quotes you'll find in that blog say nothing about feminism.

And you wonder why some of us lash out, why some of us get pissed, oh, but those quotes are against women so it doesn't effect you, now if they were quotes against men it would be a different story.

[Marx]

OK, extreme feminist see extreme actions (hate) as a justified reaction against extreme anti-feminists and extreme anti-feminists see extreme actions (again hate) as a justified reaction against extreme feminists, it just keeps going back and forth in a never ending battle, both sides blame the other and keep throwing blame back and forth.

Slight error here,

the feminists you refer to attack 'men' - that's half the planet. the antifeminists you refer to attack 'feminists' - that's a minority of some people, prominently made up from one half the planet but inclusive of both. In other words, feminists attack 49% of Earth due to a penis (sexism) while anti feminists retort to that small minority. Personally I'd suggest feminism accounts for about 5% to 10% of people, but some studies have suggested upto 33% of women, which converts to about 16% of the planet.

[KellyMac]

I leaves those of us who are not extremists stuck in the middle. In order for this feminist vs. anti-feminist think to get anywhere someone has to call a ceasefire, but neither side is willing to do that because, just when things start to settle down someone is going to do something to poke the fire again and one side is going to get offended by it and there goes the ceasefire .

Both sides see themselves as right and the other as wrong, with that kind of outlook on it, no wonder why this whole thing never gets anyplace! Both groups are only looking out for themselves, both are just as guilty as the other but neither will admit that they could be wrong. Until one of the groups has the guts to step up to the plate this whole thing is never going to get anyplace!

Victoria, I have personally tried to dialogue with moderate feminists many times. Twice I made a concentrated, concerted effort, asking straight out, "what does feminism mean to you", "how do you define feminism", "what common ground do we have", any number of things. We have bloggers like Glenn Sacks and Dr. Helen and Wendy McElroy trying desperately to point out the inequities. All we get from feminists is "yes, but..."

It's not only that there are misandrist laws - the laws themselves aren't as misandrist as they seem. It's how they're enforced and modified that is completely gynocentric. When we see articles about women actually being prosecuted for making false rape accusations, we see their punishment when they freely admit what they did as being little or nothing more than a slap on the wrist. "Poor, misguided, victimized woman. She needs mental help. Everyone feel sorry for her". A man who does it is nothing but a sick creep who can't get laid.

When I speak out, I get told that I have Stockholm Syndrome, or I'm just doing it for attention from men, or I'm too stupid to have my own opinion. They say I should be on my knees thanking feminism that I am even allowed to blog. I say even if feminism were solely responsible for my blogging, voting, financial, whatever else kind of freedom, which I do not buy at all, how long have we had those rights? Very few people are alive today who remember what life was like back then from first-hand experience.

So now feminists have to make up misogyny, with things like untrue DV statistics, new definitions of rape, and the "male gaze" ffs! Excuse me? Looking at someone violates them? Even looking at them with lust? That's the nature of humanity.

Trust me, sweetheart, I wouldn't be fighting so hard on one side if I thought the other side was right, or even a little bit right. My conscience wouldn't allow it.

[khankrumthebulgar]

Those individuals who are born Intersexed have it rough. Often rather than being able to select their preferred Gender assignment. It is forced upon them at a very young Age. When they have a lifetime of misery as a result. Victoria if that is your case, I have sympathy for your situation. I truly do. It is alleged that Jaime Lee Curtis was an intersexed Child.

But for many it is a lifetime of difficult gender issues to grapple with. Much of the human Gender condition according to the mounting evidence of scientific data is Hard Wired. The neuroscience of our brains reveals Men and Women's Brains are built on very different blueprints. Gender Feminists ignore this reality. And say Gender is a Social Construct. Not a biological issue. They are dead wrong.

[bobx23456]

Those individuals who are born Intersexed have it rough. Often rather than being able to select their preferred Gender assignment. It is forced upon them at a very young Age. When they have a lifetime of misery as a result. Victoria if that is your case, I have sympathy for your situation. I truly do. It is alleged that Jaime Lee Curtis was an intersexed Child.

But for many it is a lifetime of difficult gender issues to grapple with. Much of the human Gender condition according to the mounting evidence of scientific data is Hard Wired. The neuroscience of our brains reveals Men and Women's Brains are built on very different blueprints. Gender Feminists ignore this reality. And say Gender is a Social Construct. Not a biological issue. They are dead wrong.

I have to disagree Khan. I've known several so-called "transsexuals," some quite well, and it was my observation that they were mostly mixed up by the culture that encouraged them to lose track of their own identity. The modern gender bender psychobabble is harming thousands of people. Its taught in elementary school and on kids TV. But none of the "transsexuals" I knew ever actually were able to act like the other sex. Even after decades of crossdressings, hormone treatments, and surgery, they still exhibited most of the behavior and psychological characteristics of their physical sex.

Instead of pandering to the psychobabble nonsene and gender bender cowshit they would be helped much better by reaffirming their native sex and helping them to udnerstand that its okay to be the sex that they have been told to regret.

Blessings

Bob

[themanonthestreet]

OOPS! Here, let me fix that error for you Victoria...

Sadly, however, there are MANY WOmen today who think like the ones we have quoted but it seems those get ignored by feminists and appologists or get defended by being called "justified" or a reaction to the mythical Patriarchy (TM), even though many of the statements made about men you'll find in essentially all media say nothing about real equality and fairness, only 'getting even' and 'givin' it back to the man'.

And you wonder why some of us lash out, why some of us get pissed, oh, but those quotes are against misogynist males, doesn't effect you, so why should you care. Now if they were quotes against feminists (translated to ALL women in femi-speak) it's ALWAYS a different story.

There! All better!

You are welcome.

TMOTS

[Captain MRA]

In order for this feminist vs. anti-feminist think to get anywhere someone has to call a ceasefire, but neither side is willing to do that because, just when things start to settle down someone is going to do something to poke the fire again and one side is going to get offended by it and there goes the ceasefire .

Both sides see themselves as right and the other as wrong, with that kind of outlook on it, no wonder why this whole thing never gets anyplace! Both groups are only looking out for themselves, both are just as guilty as the other but neither will admit that they could be wrong. Until one of the groups has the guts to step up to the plate this whole thing is never going to get anyplace!

Victoria

I agree with you 100%. In fact, if you was to move your avatar and name, I'd swear that this was one of my old posts I'd just stumbled across.

I sure wish I could wave a magic wand and make this all happen.

But we all have different ways of dealing with situations. Like Percy's Dunkirk analogy of trying to get the British to make peace with the Germans when the Tommies and their allies were stranded on the beach at their enemy's mercy. Anger is very high on both sides, and there are a lot of wounded.

All of us are caught up in this and we can only do what each of our hearts tells us.

[Incognito]

Percy,

"Crimes against humanity"? (Referring to feminism.) Isn't that a bit strong?

Just who exactly are you saying should be incarcerated, and for exactly what?

[VictoriaSparda]

I have to disagree Khan. I've known several so-called "transsexuals," some quite well, and it was my observation that they were mostly mixed up by the culture that encouraged them to lose track of their own identity. The modern gender bender psychobabble is harming thousands of people. Its taught in elementary school and on kids TV. But none of the "transsexuals" I knew ever actually were able to act like the other sex. Even after decades of crossdressings, hormone treatments, and surgery, they still exhibited most of the behavior and psychological characteristics of their physical sex.

Instead of pandering to the psychobabble nonsene and gender bender cowshit they would be helped much better by reaffirming their native sex and helping them to udnerstand that its okay to be the sex that they have been told to regret.

Blessings

Bob

Bob, transexuals and intersexuals are different things all together, a transexual is someone who is born of one sex and then changes themselves to the other gender.

An intersexual is a person who was born with both male and female organs, often one set of organs is removed by surgery but they will always be genetically between genders.

It is a common misconception as most are accustomed to hearing us referred to as hermaphrodites, but intersexual is the term most of us prefer.

Here's the wiki article on intersexuallity if you are interested in learning more:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersexuality

[knight-errant]

I'd just like to point something out that keeps coming up. The idea that women weren't "allowed" to do what men did is based on a simplistic understanding of history.

Men compete with other men and work their way up hierarchies because that's what they have to do TO ATTRACT WOMEN.

Women respond to status in men. Look around you.

Women DON'T HAVE TO struggle up hierarchies to find a mate. Men do.

Low status men are more stressed than high status men because a man's self worth is based on his achievements in the workplace (male dominance hierarchy).

A woman's self worth (in general) is based on social networking and later on building a nest to raise children/being good at homemaking.

This isn't just true of humans but is true across the animal kingdom where there are males and females.


It's a natural division of labor and while there are of course exceptions (males and females with atypical brain patterning) this is true generally.

Previously society has always been organized to acknowledge this truth of human nature.
Our society risks collapse by ignoring it.

To see the research that bears this out read Moxon's The Woman Racket which goes into great depth on this topic.

[Captain MRA]

Victoria

I agree with you 100%. In fact, if you was to move your avatar and name, I'd swear that this was one of my old posts I'd just stumbled across.

I sure wish I could wave a magic wand and make this all happen.

But we all have different ways of dealing with situations. Like Percy's Dunkirk analogy of trying to get the British to make peace with the Germans when the Tommies and their allies were stranded on the beach at their enemy's mercy. Anger is very high on both sides, and there are a lot of wounded.

All of us are caught up in this and we can only do what each of our hearts tells us.

Or rather I agree but with the exception that I prefer to say MRA than anti-feminist.

[VictoriaSparda]

I'd just like to point something out that keeps coming up. The idea that women weren't "allowed" to do what men did is based on a simplistic understanding of history.

Men compete with other men and work their way up hierarchies because that's what they have to do TO ATTRACT WOMEN.

Women respond to status in men. Look around you.

Women DON'T HAVE TO struggle up hierarchies to find a mate. Men do.

Low status men are more stressed than high status men because a man's self worth is based on his achievements in the workplace (male dominance hierarchy).

A woman's self worth (in general) is based on social networking and later on building a nest to raise children/being good at homemaking.

This isn't just true of humans but is true across the animal kingdom where there are males and females.


It's a natural division of labor and while there are of course exceptions (males and females with atypical brain patterning) this is true generally.

Previously society has always been organized to acknowledge this truth of human nature.
Our society risks collapse by ignoring it.

To see the research that bears this out read Moxon's The Woman Racket which goes into great depth on this topic.

It's upsetting that men's and women's values are normally judged differently, men's were by work and effort (mostly, though there are some women who focus on a man's looks) and women almost purely by genetics, which some of us just aren't that lucky in the genetic lottery.

If I had my way, both genders would be judged by what they can achieve and not on looks at all, personality yes, but looks, that's purely genetic.

Being a business owner I have quite a nice income and I'll tell you, when guys find out that you have good money they come out of the woodwork (Thus why I try to live like a normal working class person most of the time, I don't like the extra attention having money brings in real life, but sadly I still can't hide the....ummm...twins too well, they are too big and get more attention then I like them to). Some guys judge on status as well, I have seen this first hand, but if you really think about it, the only thing anyone should be looking at is personality, but human beings in general are a bit shallow so, sadly, that's never going to happen.

I hope that post made sense.....I'm a bit out of it right now so I'm sorry if any of it is hard to understand.....

[knight-errant]

It's upsetting that men's and women's values are normally judged differently, men's were by work and effort (mostly, though there are some women who focus on a man's looks) and women almost purely by genetics, which some of us just aren't that lucky in the genetic lottery.

If I had my way, both genders would be judged by what they can achieve and not on looks at all, personality yes, but looks, that's purely genetic.

Being a business owner I have quite a nice income and I'll tell you, when guys find out that you have good money they come out of the woodwork (Thus why I try to live like a normal working class person most of the time, I don't like the extra attention having money brings in real life, but sadly I still can't hide the....ummm...twins too well, they are too big and get more attention then I like them to). Some guys judge on status as well, I have seen this first hand, but if you really think about it, the only thing anyone should be looking at is personality, but human beings in general are a bit shallow so, sadly, that's never going to happen.

I hope that post made sense.....I'm a bit out of it right now so I'm sorry if any of it is hard to understand.....

Well I did use the word generally. And generally is what drives the world, not the exceptions.

Again, this isn't opinion I'm stating. This is what is found by evolutionary biologists and psychologists in a number of studies.

Brad Pitt was unsuccessful with women until he attained fame and it's a well understood fact that women tend to marry up and men to marry down.

The symmetry suggests that's because men and women work together.

[bachelor tom]

Idealists believe that human nature can be changed or improved. Socialists see this as part of our environmentally-formed personalities.

Hominids have been around millions of years, and humans for tens of thousands. To expect fundamental behavioural changes in the course of a few generations is optimistic at best, and delusional at worst.

Sex specialization was useful when we were paleolithic hunter-gatherers. Is it obsolete? Even if so, changing is easier said than done. Forcing it down peoples' throats "for their own good" is not constructive.