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Death of Y may spawn new human species

This is a discussion on Death of Y may spawn new human species within the Science forums, part of the Men's talk category; Death of Y may spawn new human species Judy Skatssoon ABC Science Online The pending demise of the Y chromosome ...


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  #1  
Old 21st-October-2006
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Death of Y may spawn new human species

Quote:
Death of Y may spawn new human species

Judy Skatssoon
ABC Science Online

The pending demise of the Y chromosome could give rise to a whole new species of human, a professor of comparative genomics says.

Scientists have been speculating about the demise of the Y chromosome for some years now but Professor Jenny Graves of the Australian National University in Canberra has come up with a bold new twist on the theory.

Graves, who has been working on sex chromosomes in marsupials, will present her theory at the 11th International Congress of Genetics in Brisbane today.

She will tell the conference that new 'male making' genes on other chromosomes could step up to do the job of the Y chromosome's SRY gene, which is the key to making males male.

But this could mean men without Y chromosomes would split off from those with, eventually evolving into a new species of hominid.

"It's quite possible that you could make new hominid species that way," she says.

When two populations become two species

Graves says men without a Y chromosome would be largely infertile. But a small number would reproduce and pass the new sex determining gene to their children.

Eventually the group with the new gene would separate from the Y gene group, potentially evolving into a new species, she says.

"[The two groups] couldn't mate with each other so they'd get gradually different, just like chimpanzees and humans gradually became different 5 million years ago," she says.

"When two populations become two species there's generally there's some sort of wedge driven between them so they can't mate with each other.

"It might be a mountain range ... but it might be something fundamental like the way they determine sex has flipped to some new way."

15 million years and counting

Graves says there are only 45 working genes left on the Y chromosome from "a grand total" of 1400.

It also contains a lot of 'pseudo genes', which look like they should work but don't, suggesting they've recently become defunct.

According to her projections the Y chromosome will disappear altogether in 15 million years.

This will occur because unlike the other coupled genes, the single Y chromosome can't recombine with a matching partner and is less able to refresh itself.

Mutations will build up and the mutated genes will eventually drop off the chromosome because they no longer perform any useful function.

Graves says this has already happened in the case of the mole vole, an aggressive little rodent that appears male and is able to reproduce despite having lost its Y chromosome.

XX men

Australian researcher Professor Andrew Sinclair, of Murdoch Childrens Research Institute, is researching so-called XX men, or the roughly one in 150,000 men who are born without a Y chromosome.

"What it's pointing to is the presence of new genes we haven't yet discovered to replace the ones on the Y chromosome," Sinclair says.

Alternately, the "volume" of previously existing genes may have been "turned up" in the absence of the Y genes, he says.

Sinclair's team is the first in the world to use new high-density gene chips to examine XX men in the hope of finding out which genes these are.

About 10% of affected men also have a tiny portion of the Y chromosome stuck on their X chromosome which carries across the testis determining gene, he says.

Sinclair says Grave's theory about a new human species could make sense "in a theoretical way" but is unlikely in reality.

"I don't know about a whole new species of human but if you lost the Y chromosome completely males would have to evolve in some way to deal with it," he says.

"If you have males without a Y chromosome I don't think I'd go as far as calling them a new species, but a new type of individual."
Link to the news article.


This is not a problem. It would happen far in the future if humans are still alive then. The other chromosome will take over the tasks that the Y chromosome has. This creates XX males. So males in the far future will live without the Y chromosome.

Here's more information about that:

Quote:
The path of evolution is usually so quirky and complex that scientists shy away from making predictions. But the future of the Y chromosome seems clear. Graves points out that, on average, three to six genes have disappeared from the Y every million years since the chromosome emerged. At that rate, the Y has only 10 million years left. It's an old chromosome, at death's door.

Yet the death of the Y doesn't mean the death of men. Men need only look to the mole vole for comfort. Burrowing through the soil of western Asia are two species of these rodents (Ellobius tancrei and E. lutescens) that have lost all the genes from their Y chromosome--in fact, they no longer have a Y chromosome at all. In one of these species, both males and females have been left with just the unpaired X; in the other, both sexes have two X's. No one knows how mole voles ended up being the first mammals to cross over into the Y-free future. But along the way, they must have evolved new genes--on other chromosomes--that are responsible for making males. One of those genes took over the job of SRY, and the chromosome on which it resides is probably on its way to becoming the new Y.

If our species manages to survive for another 10 million years, our descendants will go on making men even after their Y chromosome vanishes. But the change may not be smooth. Graves speculates that several new systems for determining sex could emerge within the global human population. People conceived under one system might be genetically incompatible with those conceived under others. As a result, the human species could fragment into separate populations and, ultimately, separate species. Which of them will prefer football and which the ant nest, we'll have to wait and see.



~ A man needs a woman like a lion needs a stove. ~

~ Women deserve only equal opportunity, not equal outcomes. ~

~ Men are not collectively "guilty" of anything. ~

~ Never needing to be pregnant is a blessing. ~

~ Feminist ideology “men have to respect women, but women have no reason to respect men” ~

~ Everybody makes choices, and nobody should be entitled to special treatment because of those choices.
Equal results based on unequal treatment amounts to no kind of equality at all. ~
 
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  #2  
Old 21st-October-2006
Tyrael's Avatar
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Tyrael has a brilliant futureTyrael has a brilliant futureTyrael has a brilliant futureTyrael has a brilliant futureTyrael has a brilliant futureTyrael has a brilliant futureTyrael has a brilliant futureTyrael has a brilliant futureTyrael has a brilliant futureTyrael has a brilliant futureTyrael has a brilliant future
Death of Y may spawn new human species

Quote:
Death of Y may spawn new human species

Judy Skatssoon
ABC Science Online

The pending demise of the Y chromosome could give rise to a whole new species of human, a professor of comparative genomics says.

Scientists have been speculating about the demise of the Y chromosome for some years now but Professor Jenny Graves of the Australian National University in Canberra has come up with a bold new twist on the theory.

Graves, who has been working on sex chromosomes in marsupials, will present her theory at the 11th International Congress of Genetics in Brisbane today.

She will tell the conference that new 'male making' genes on other chromosomes could step up to do the job of the Y chromosome's SRY gene, which is the key to making males male.

But this could mean men without Y chromosomes would split off from those with, eventually evolving into a new species of hominid.

"It's quite possible that you could make new hominid species that way," she says.

When two populations become two species

Graves says men without a Y chromosome would be largely infertile. But a small number would reproduce and pass the new sex determining gene to their children.

Eventually the group with the new gene would separate from the Y gene group, potentially evolving into a new species, she says.

"[The two groups] couldn't mate with each other so they'd get gradually different, just like chimpanzees and humans gradually became different 5 million years ago," she says.

"When two populations become two species there's generally there's some sort of wedge driven between them so they can't mate with each other.

"It might be a mountain range ... but it might be something fundamental like the way they determine sex has flipped to some new way."

15 million years and counting

Graves says there are only 45 working genes left on the Y chromosome from "a grand total" of 1400.

It also contains a lot of 'pseudo genes', which look like they should work but don't, suggesting they've recently become defunct.

According to her projections the Y chromosome will disappear altogether in 15 million years.

This will occur because unlike the other coupled genes, the single Y chromosome can't recombine with a matching partner and is less able to refresh itself.

Mutations will build up and the mutated genes will eventually drop off the chromosome because they no longer perform any useful function.

Graves says this has already happened in the case of the mole vole, an aggressive little rodent that appears male and is able to reproduce despite having lost its Y chromosome.

XX men

Australian researcher Professor Andrew Sinclair, of Murdoch Childrens Research Institute, is researching so-called XX men, or the roughly one in 150,000 men who are born without a Y chromosome.

"What it's pointing to is the presence of new genes we haven't yet discovered to replace the ones on the Y chromosome," Sinclair says.

Alternately, the "volume" of previously existing genes may have been "turned up" in the absence of the Y genes, he says.

Sinclair's team is the first in the world to use new high-density gene chips to examine XX men in the hope of finding out which genes these are.

About 10% of affected men also have a tiny portion of the Y chromosome stuck on their X chromosome which carries across the testis determining gene, he says.

Sinclair says Grave's theory about a new human species could make sense "in a theoretical way" but is unlikely in reality.

"I don't know about a whole new species of human but if you lost the Y chromosome completely males would have to evolve in some way to deal with it," he says.

"If you have males without a Y chromosome I don't think I'd go as far as calling them a new species, but a new type of individual."
Link to the news article.


This is not a problem. It would happen far in the future if humans are still alive then. The other chromosome will take over the tasks that the Y chromosome has. This creates XX males. So males in the far future will live without the Y chromosome.

Here's more information about that:

Quote:
The path of evolution is usually so quirky and complex that scientists shy away from making predictions. But the future of the Y chromosome seems clear. Graves points out that, on average, three to six genes have disappeared from the Y every million years since the chromosome emerged. At that rate, the Y has only 10 million years left. It's an old chromosome, at death's door.

Yet the death of the Y doesn't mean the death of men. Men need only look to the mole vole for comfort. Burrowing through the soil of western Asia are two species of these rodents (Ellobius tancrei and E. lutescens) that have lost all the genes from their Y chromosome--in fact, they no longer have a Y chromosome at all. In one of these species, both males and females have been left with just the unpaired X; in the other, both sexes have two X's. No one knows how mole voles ended up being the first mammals to cross over into the Y-free future. But along the way, they must have evolved new genes--on other chromosomes--that are responsible for making males. One of those genes took over the job of SRY, and the chromosome on which it resides is probably on its way to becoming the new Y.

If our species manages to survive for another 10 million years, our descendants will go on making men even after their Y chromosome vanishes. But the change may not be smooth. Graves speculates that several new systems for determining sex could emerge within the global human population. People conceived under one system might be genetically incompatible with those conceived under others. As a result, the human species could fragment into separate populations and, ultimately, separate species. Which of them will prefer football and which the ant nest, we'll have to wait and see.



~ A man needs a woman like a lion needs a stove. ~

~ Women deserve only equal opportunity, not equal outcomes. ~

~ Men are not collectively "guilty" of anything. ~

~ Never needing to be pregnant is a blessing. ~

~ Feminist ideology “men have to respect women, but women have no reason to respect men” ~

~ Everybody makes choices, and nobody should be entitled to special treatment because of those choices.
Equal results based on unequal treatment amounts to no kind of equality at all. ~
 
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