Greets Timocrat,
quite the amount of options there... I would imagine most folk would see a little bit of all the above in themselves & others.

Good question.

Lots of option there.. Some damned good ones, hard to choose..

I must say, the main one I think is missing..

"Stop spending so much time looking at the problems and examples, start coming up with long term solutions"..

Then again..

"stop expecting OTHER PEOPLE (especially the state) to solve your own issues, and the broader issues.."

"Stop ignoring biology and demanding equality etc.. the genders are NOT hermophradite"..

"Stop thinking only in terms of MALE problems and realise that women are just as much victims (if not more so).. of misandric policy"..

"stop being so damned incapable of looking past the immediate and obvious, start thinking beyond the "next step".."

I could go on..

Right now, I chose, out of those options, the MONEY option..

Because I have noticed that this is what is often used as the biggest excuse for non-action, and so many bickerings in ground level activities have been because of money..

Men use this to excuse avoiding actions (travel expenses), and also they use it as an excuse to keep on working and paying taxes that fuel the state..

So much is, one way or another, fucked up by men thinking of money..

All in all, there is a lot of selfishness in the MRM, at least in the parts I have been active in..

Some of the options, such as answering emails, giving yes or no answers, well, these things are just pissers and to be honest the mrm is full of folk who dont bother replying, probably because they are more interested in simply putting their own ideas forward and they dont want to take an interest in individuals..

Damned fucking rude.. But, its more to do with the number of selfish bastards..

In my time in the fathers groups, I encountered MANY folk who could not give a shite aboiut replying, in fact, its rare to find anyone (even folk one knows personally) who will give a response to so many things..

And, even rarer to find any who will respons when "It is not in their own personal immediate advantage to communicate"..

I think too many MRA just fuck about on forums now..

That is not fucking good enough..

Frankly, its largely a waste of time..

IF, (as you seem to be Timocrat), MRA's are able to put OUR ISSUES ahead of the other political etc persuations they have, then, the "rag bag alliance" that is the MRM may move forward..

I have said the same thing repeatedly..

The MRM as it stands CANNOT move forward in any long term sustainable way if it keeps acting as it currently is.. Its an "alliance" (joke!!) of frustrated ex male feminists, manginas, lefties, right wingers, prudes, recreational sex freaks, and just about every oddball group that in some way finds a little part of the MRM to appeal, though most disregard the bulk.. The dont ever REALLY unite in any way, as in, they dont really co-operate and spend more time falling out like fucking spoilt brats who have had their playtime curtailed by big nanny/brother and would rather blame each other for failure than look at the reality of WHY they are divided..

There needs to be a RADICAL CHANGE in attitude and positioning for ANYTHING to be gained..

Get these facts for sure..

1. There is PRACTICALLY ZERO effective ground level resistance or "active force"..

2. There are NO leaders worth investing in at the moment.. Not one..

3. There are A HANDFUL of dispersed and isolated "big thinkers" with good ideas or interesting approaches.. These folk seem to be whittled OUT of the movement by the control freaks within who see BLIND LOYALTY as more important than either getting the AIM CORRECT or putting the EFFORT in.. The leaders are all AIMING WRONG by appealling to the fucking state..

4. The "middle ground" of the MRM is still heavily statist and will remain so especially if non statists are routinely hammered out..

5. The MRM does not have any answers that can address the bigger picture, they SHY AWAY from the fact that unless the BIGGER PICTURE IS ADDRESSED any hopeful minor gains are going to be nothing other than isolated sandbanks built before the incoming tide..

6. The vast majority of MRA's fuel the enemy in their everyday life much more than they effectively work towards anything that will reap a reward for the movement..

7. We live in a democrasy, and NOTHING will be achieved without going through that process (short of revolutionary fear induction that makes the state suddenly change its position, and that IS NOT possible with such tiny groups..)

8. We MUST get our act sorted, and MUST appeal to the broad mainstream, stop arguing the toss with feminists, stop arguing with each other, present ourselves in a positive and fucking determined manner.. No more pussy footing around..

9. Without the support of FEMALE VOTERS and a LOT of males, we stand no fucking chance, and we are NOT going to get this support from our current position.. The presentation MUST be sorted..

10. The MRM needs to basically, disband and throw away ALL its current failed and doomed tactics, "policies" (joke!!) and low-brow short sighted approaches and start coming to the problem area with a clean slate and work out an approach that will appeal to BOTH genders and the sense of personal responsibilty that most people would prefer to the current "whinging and begging" mentality..

NOTHING worthwhile can be achieved using the current format and "approach".. We have to look LONG TERM and make some bloody big individual sacrifices and change tact drastically..

A. Scrap the MRM, rebuild it under the banner and attitude of FAMILY FREEDOM MOVEMENT.. The FAMILY is the basic social unit and its a gauranteed LOSER to come into politics with a SINGLE GENDER AGENDA!!

B. Recognise the STATE as the VILE ENEMY to the family, not just men, but women and children too..

C. Hence, DO NOT USE ANY STATIST TOOLS OR MEANS TO SOLVE YOUR PROBLEMS OR ISSUES. Starve the state, render their phoney "solutions" obsolete.. The use of the courts etc is VALIDATION to the STATE!!


I will say for sure, I doubt VERY MUCH that the majority of folk in the movement will take a blind bit of notice, they are not only TOO SELFISH to make the required sacrifices, they are TOO DUMB to see that the state CANNOT EVER sort out all the problems we have..

The femistate is DOOMED, one way or another, as the MRM stands, it is giving it MORE LIFE!!!

I dont want to see great efforts being made so that a handful of guys can "beat the system under its own rules" while the majority give up, I want to see THOSE GUYS quit playing with the system and let ALL MEN see the promised land..

Its not just for us, its for our kids..

I dont want my kids to jump through even more hoops than we have to..

BE MORE HONEST!

Quote from Drex

"Stop thinking only in terms of MALE problems and realise that women are just as much victims (if not more so).. of misandric policy"..

Explain, and detail logically?

And, would the reverse be true, whereby a claim could be made whereby "men are just as much victims (if not more so?).. of misogynist policy"..

I will refute your claim, and show you why!

Quote from Celtic Druid

Explain, and detail logically?

And, would the reverse be true, whereby a claim could be made whereby "men are just as much victims (if not more so?).. of misogynist policy"..

I will refute your claim, and show you why!

Well, there are many examples that could be made..

basically, when the genders are set against each other by creating these artificially "rifts" then the balances dont work..

One classic example is of course that women are now enslaved to work in many cases, also, they are becoming single mothers in greater numbers, and this is not primarily through "choice".. or even missing out altoigether on family life..

They are also missing out on a lot because men are adapting to the misandry by withdrawing from females..

I am not sure if any "misogynist" policies exist.. cant thing of any.. ??

But, I would warrant that if they did exist, then men too would suffer..

It is my belief that the genders function best when they are able to opererate within a family structure, making their own decisions without being influenced or subject to perverse state incentives..

Quote from Drex

One classic example is of course that women are now enslaved to work in many cases

Enslaved? Meaning forced? Bugger off Drex! The financial practicalities of a modern mortgage insures "both" man and woman are required to fulfill a monthly expectation that benefits a "free" family unit.

Where is the enslavement on the womans part that differs from a man?

Want to idealize? Yep, we're all enslaved to varied degrees.

I'd just be so interested as to how you proclaim women are more "enslaved."?

Quote from Drex

One classic example is of course that women are now enslaved to work in many cases, also, they are becoming single mothers in greater numbers, and this is not primarily through "choice".. or even missing out altoigether on family life..

Yep, as you say "choice."

It's only been more recently in the advent of technology - whereby men are 'increasingly' wising up to an age old game women have been playing for millennia!

Technology is empowering men, and simultaneously disenfranchising waves of traditional "con-women."

Quote from Celtic Druid

Enslaved? Meaning forced? Bugger off Drex! The financial practicalities of a modern mortgage insures "both" man and woman are required to fulfill a monthly expectation that benefits a "free" family unit.

Where is the enslavement on the womans part that differs from a man?

Want to idealize? Yep, were all enslaved to varied degrees.

I'd just be so interested as to how you proclaim women are more "enslaved."?

Feminism created this "need" to have two earners, in a few different ways.. Breaking up households as well as bidding up the prices of homes..

I will say that women now are pressured into work in a way that they previously were not so pressured..

They are also pressured into avoiding family etc till they are surprise surprise.. past it..

Men have a few extra "decades" to play with as we know..

They want marraige, but cant get it so easy as they did, and when they do, they end up divorced..

i would say that, in many ways, women suffer more from feminism because they dont realise how much their lives are messed up compared to men..

Of course, both genders suffer, but the more dumb gender is likely to just not realise it till its too late!

Feminism "enslaved" women to the modern realities of the workplace, to which so many women thirsted for, and now regret.

That comfortable cul-de-sac of homemaker seems such a distant bliss?

If only those feminists just couldn't leave alone?

Now it's twice as much work for "some" women!

Just a point here. You don't have to choose one answer for this poll for this allows you to choose all or none. So Billy just click them all or none. The maximum for a poll is 20 and I didn't want to get petty, so I stuck to what I thought were the bigger and pragmatic issues we face. I can't read minds and therefore don't know what might trouble others. I just guessed.

Also it isn't my roll in providing a poll to show my cards, and thus taint the results even a little. I want a real cross section of other's views, so you will have to wait for someone else's poll to hear mine.

Thanks Timocrat for initiating a great thread for somebody I hold in much esteem.

Quote from Drex

i would say that, in many ways, women suffer more from feminism because they dont realise how much their lives are messed up compared to men..

That's like feeling sorry for any bigot that happily rode the wave of subjective ideological benefit, who, given an abundance of evidence 'only' began to contemplate moral retrospection!

well we should better ourselves at everything, so all of the above I guess, though of course well never be able to achieve all these, but we can try, still.

Quote from Celtic Druid

That's like feeling sorry for any bigot that happily rode the wave of subjective ideological benefit, who, given an abundance of evidence 'only' began to contemplate moral retrospection!

In the case of Greer and her ilk, 100% correct!

In the case of the new young women coming into adulthood..

It was not their making!!