Thread: Personal effectiveness

Damn, I had to select pissing against the wind. I have the same thoughts about giving up, but just don't have it in me. Just can't quit.

Einstein said something to the effect that if you keep trying to solve the same old problem in the same old way you will keep coming up with the same wrong answer. What we need is a new way of thinking.

The winds are changing. Be it because of the MRM or just because people want a change I don't know, nor do I care where the change comes from as long as it comes.

I browse the internet alot looking up things that pop into my mind (like tonight I am looking up the Northern Lights since I live in North Dakota and have never seen them and would like to). Anyway, there is a lot less tolerance for feminist BS than there was a few years ago. You don't see as much man blaming on issues of child alimony or domestic violence as you used to. It seems, many people (men especially) are wising up.

As far as my effectiveness? I don't care. I have been told that unless I am out there beating the streets with picket signs I am not helping the movement. I have been told that my extremist views harm the movement. Fuck what everyone else thinks, conformity got us into this mess in the first place.

I guess I have a more positive outlook due to trying things long term to see if they will work. You are too emotional Haahoo and like to ride the emotional rollercoaster to do what your desires tell you to do from one moment to the next. You do good deeds that are good for the cause, but you also sow defeatism in the ranks and waste time preaching to the converted.

When we first supplied news to following Canadian forum they were all chivalrous and excuse making for any female criminal or mother who made her own nest a big mess there. Now they are like this on a new female murderer:

http://www.freedominion.com.pa/phpBB...c.php?t=111765

This is so very different from when we started, and there are now men who are aware of a list of news items all showing the MRA side, that their are blogs and organizations out there all over the world and word of mouth converting others. The conservative government there has taken funds away from feminist organizations twice in the recent past, and if we could speak in some areas as one they would do more for they could be assured of getting more votes for doing the right thing.

Coordination is slowly getting better, but the same MRAs that complain about the lack of cooperation are often the same ones that can't really make deals and stick with them. They are "the fox and the grapes." You would do better Haahoo to get on someones roof than talk endlessly with the converted. You say bloggers waste time preaching to the unconverted, but you waste much more in your need to be on forums with the converted MRAs and endless going over the same feelings and sexual issues. Haven't you done a poll like this before?

Everybody could do a lot better.

Some do a lot more than they willingly shout about.

There are a lot of folk quite new to the struggle.

I sometimes get pessimistic at the slowness, and then Timo comes along and re-invigorates us with a swift whack around the ears.

Quote from ingrate

Damn, I had to select pissing against the wind. I have the same thoughts about giving up, but just don't have it in me. Just can't quit.

Einstein said something to the effect that if you keep trying to solve the same old problem in the same old way you will keep coming up with the same wrong answer. What we need is a new way of thinking.

Aye, I reckon so..

Quote from Timocrat

I guess I have a more positive outlook due to trying things long term to see if they will work. You are too emotional Haahoo and like to ride the emotional rollercoaster to do what your desires tell you to do from one moment to the next. You do good deeds that are good for the cause, but you also sow defeatism in the ranks and waste time preaching to the converted.

When we first supplied news to following Canadian forum they were all chivalrous and excuse making for any female criminal or mother who made her own nest a big mess there. Now they are like this on a new female murderer:

http://www.freedominion.com.pa/phpBB...c.php?t=111765

This is so very different from when we started, and there are now men who are aware of a list of news items all showing the MRA side, that their are blogs and organizations out there all over the world and word of mouth converting others. The conservative government there has taken funds away from feminist organizations twice in the recent past, and if we could speak in some areas as one they would do more for they could be assured of getting more votes for doing the right thing.

Coordination is slowly getting better, but the same MRAs that complain about the lack of cooperation are often the same ones that can't really make deals and stick with them. They are "the fox and the grapes." You would do better Haahoo to get on someones roof than talk endlessly with the converted. You say bloggers waste time preaching to the unconverted, but you waste much more in your need to be on forums with the converted MRAs and endless going over the same feelings and sexual issues. Haven't you done a poll like this before?

aye, could be much truth in that..

I dont see much co-operation going on, but that is perhaps because I started off in the highly regimented F4J before it self-destructed..

You know the state of the movement as well as anyone Timo, my "defeatism" is more of a warning call I think. I constantly have been reminded of how I sow defeatist attitudes, but we have to be realistic and not think we can just "buck up and be positive" as so many men have become jaded and walked the plank of shame..

We cant change anything overnight, and I think most folk are not interested in things that MAY gain fruit in 10 years time..

Most of the most vocal and angry men are sufferring right now, we cant be waiting for our kids to grow up before we get the natural right to be fathers..

The lifespan of most mra's seems to be damned short, far less than 5 years.. rarely over 2 years..

Quote from Timocrat

You say bloggers waste time preaching to the unconverted,

Blogs are regarded by some as the most self-indulgence shite on the internet, thats a harsh judgement, but I dont think it is far off the mark in many instances, anyone can create a blog, to create an effective blog is much harder. Anyone can also put together a million links on their blogs and this is largely linking the converted.. I would say bloggers tend, if anything, to "waste time" preaching the same basic message to the CONVERTED as opposed to the unconverted..

Dealing with exchanges with feminists is rarely beneficial, and is more easily seen to be a waste of time..

However, if a person is ONLY interested in blogging, then perhaps they dont see it as wasted time?

but you waste much more in your need to be on forums with the converted MRAs

Fair comment.. Though I would suggest that few MRA's are fully converted, as I am sure you will agree!

and endless going over the same feelings and sexual issues. Haven't you done a poll like this before?

Maybe, but the basis of our issues are pretty basic "feelings" and often rooted in sexual issues.. Issues that many men dont seem to be in tune with or connected with.. You know of moxons work, which is just a representation of known phenonema anyway, until men get to master their sexuality and address it frankly, we have the problems forever.. Men fall to the lure of the pussy and start off on the losing foot..

Have I done a similar poll before?

I may have, I dont actually recall, but does it invalidate this poll?

We have a few basic issues that are not going to go away and need to be repeatedly put in the face of as many folk as possible.

Whether I repeat them personally 1 million times, or 1 million folk say them once, they still require an airing frequently..

One of the ideas you presented some years ago, which I strongly agree with, is your idea of a "mens media" to counter the influences..

What progress have you made on that Timo?

Putting stuff out to the mrm is good, putting it out to a wider audience better, putting it MAINSTREAM is best..

We can all do better..

I am involved in some more "mainstream" groups etc, but they dont appeal as much to me as I dont like to play the "fox" or the "weasel" to get things done.. (To use your own categories, I hope I have got them right!)

I prefer the honest, forthwright approach, not appeasing the feminists, not self-indulging or fantasising, but trying to lay solid foundations for real progress.

If I fall short on that, as I am sure I do, I would like to encourage those who can do better, to do just that.

My point in setting up the original (and thus this) forum was to a) inform and b) let men vent about misandry.

I'd say that job is done every time someone posts here, or every lurker reads more than 30s worth of site content.


On the other hand, have I really done anything? I'm not too sure.

Quote from Marx

My point in setting up the original (and thus this) forum was to a) inform and b) let men vent about misandry.

I'd say that job is done every time someone posts here, or every lurker reads more than 30s worth of site content.


On the other hand, have I really done anything? I'm not too sure.

Seems like you have achieved your intended goals ongoing as they sill surely be, running a forum like this is a full time job and no one can really expect more of a person who has dedicated themselves to such a task and fulfilled it pretty well on the whole..

Has this forum dented the enemy?

Hard to say, but it does seem to be taken seriously, as it has come on the radar of the enemies so much that some would even like to see it banned!

A good thing I would say!!

Quote from haahoo

Seems like you have achieved your intended goals ongoing as they sill surely be, running a forum like this is a full time job and no one can really expect more of a person who has dedicated themselves to such a task and fulfilled it pretty well on the whole..

Has this forum dented the enemy?

Hard to say, but it does seem to be taken seriously, as it has come on the radar of the enemies so much that some would even like to see it banned!

A good thing I would say!!

Thanks for your words, Haahoo. When I see them complaining (or promoting it be shut down, etc.) some part of me shrieks in fear that it may actually happen (get shut down).

Then I realise, this place must be really, really pissing some people off. Which, given the type of person it has upset, gives me a sense of accomplishment and determination to continue...

I could have done a lot more, and I intend to do so; having said this, I've been thinking the same thing since I joined this site, nearly a year ago.

I used to semi-regularly argue with feminists on a UK-based student forum; at first just to pass time and to show them some opposition, but eventually it was something I saw as a form of activism, as it stood to sway the opinions of the more neutral members there. I haven't done so recently, however, as I can honestly say that it depresses me too much to see so much bias against men, as I saw on that site; visiting it really illustrated to me as to what a brainwashed generation of liberally-minded fruitcakes we have bred. I do sometimes toy with the idea of returning, however, as the forum experienced a high number of visitors, and I'm sure I did make a few members there think differently about things.

Other than that, I've messaged the trollop Julie Bintel, on 'Facebook', offering an intelligent critique of an article of hers, as well as throwing in a few insults at the end, for good measure. I also spammed a feminist group on 'Facebook' with 300 'wall posts' slagging them off, purely for fun (which probably doesn't count as acitivism of any description, but it sure proved to be enjoyable).

I think we should do more to group together, to organise certain acts of activism.

Every time an individual man changes his mind about these issues, it's a victory for us. Every time a young man learns from an older one about how these issues play out in the life of a man, and changes his ideas about how he wants to live his own life, it's a victory for us. There are many of these victories happening all around us. They are mostly quiet victories, however, and not loud, or vocal. Sometimes they happen here on the internet, and sometimes they happen in the offline world -- but they *are* happening.

As others have pointed out, people are being more openly critical of some of the more glaring stupidities of the current regime. There are also cracks among the fabric of the sisterhood forming, and widening to some degree, between the radical generations of the 60s and 70s and the young women of today -- things are changing there, too. And finally, men (at least in the US) are engaged in an individualized, unstructured, unorganized and rather spontaneous "walking away en masse" from marriage -- not a 'movement' in the classic sense, but a phenomenon that is at least in part based on the fact that men are communicating about these issues with each other, and drawing their own conclusions about their lives.

As I wrote in my other note about the political being personal for men, I think that it may be misplaced to measure the success of the MRM in conventional political terms -- that is, to compare its political effectiveness, in the articulated political arena, to the feminist groups, for example. That approach, I think, really understates dramatically the progress that has been made among individual men, and the impact this is having. More and more websites on the internet. More and more videos on YouTube. More and more men deciding to live independently of women, deciding to comment on sexist stories in newspapers as being female sexist, deciding to voice opinions that are not politically correct, in defiance of the established order. All of this is happening, gentlemen, much more than it was even 5 years ago. Perhaps this will all lead to a mass changed consciousness among men (to borrow a phrase from feminism) or perhaps it will simply lead to a quiet revolution being affected through the behavior of individual men, and perhaps that will coalesce at some point around policies and politics, wrapped together with other issues.

Sometimes you don't get to see the fruits of your labor in a way that is obvious or in the way that you recognize, or, in a way that you would like to see it.

But that doesn't mean your efforts have been in vain, and it doesn't mean you haven't had an effect.

i voted number 2(i think) did lots but could have done better

no more man bashing in the media in my area--open advertizing for MALE victim's of domestic violence and rape-i honestly do not know of any more ground work that i can do here--i have been shut down because ppl conformed to my concerns-now i am talking to my members of gov to start sticking up for men-in all areas of men's concerns--examples-health,d.v.,divorce and custody issues etc....