Thread: Which of the following do you think best sums up the current state of the movement?

*whispers in Haahoo's ear: where's the poll?*

Here!??

There have been some gains...examining those gains I've noticed that those who have accomplished have done it as individuals (Woods vs. Shewry comes to mind, Strauss' studies on intimate partner/gender violence that have found their way into college text books), and have done much under the umbrella of family alliances (CAFC comes to mind). The term "MRA" is under siege. So are some of it's radical ideas (eliminating no-fault divorce, throwing out child support comes to mind). Now is the time for self-appraisal (by "self" I don't mean only individuals, though that's important, but as a group.) Do we continue under the term "MRA" (while being branded the "abusers lobby", etc..)or do we ally ourselves with bigger groups who are making bigger progress?

if young men would eschew the contract hardly any of the adverse outcomes would accrue to them

womyn don't suffer from delusions of love

but they are quick to detect the pliable and deluded saps that do

these are the fools that will be grist in the Family Court anon

....radical ideas (eliminating no-fault divorce,....

"The house is on fire".

"Quick, put the flames out"

"Put the flames out? That's a bit of a radical idea isn't it"?

Quote from Percy

"The house is on fire".

"Quick, put the flames out"

"Put the flames out? That's a bit of a radical idea isn't it"?

Aye..

Unlike lawyers who pour petrol on the flames..

I prefer to introduce the petrol can directly to the lawyers offices..

http://www.examiner.co.uk/news/local...name_page.html

Angry fathers in law firm protest

Feb 26 2004 By The Huddersfield Daily Examiner
A LAW firm was the focus of a protest by campaign group Fathers 4 Justice for the second time.
Fifteen fathers wearing white contamination outfits stormed the offices of Parker Bird solicitors in Queen Street, Huddersfield with sirens blaring, whistles blowing and flags waving.
Police were called but no arrests were made.
Campaigners claim they had given the firm a Golden Petrol Can award.
Local members of the Fathers 4 Justice group voted the firm the outright winner of the award in Huddersfield because of its `major contribution in the pouring petrol on the flames in divorce and childcare cases'.
The protesters claim the firm helps prevent fathers from maintaining their parental responsibilities and abuses the human rights of children and fathers in Huddersfield.
Three weeks ago the protesters daubed graffiti on the walls of Parker Bird with the words `Fathers 4 Justice', `F4J here to stay' and `Child thieves'.
During yesterday's latest protest 10 men entered the building. The door was locked behind them leaving five protesters outside chanting and waving flags until police arrived.
One of the spokesmen, Andy Lindley, said they were part of the national protest group campaigning for equal rights for fathers.
"We want fathers to continue to be parents. If couples get a divorce it should not mean that fathers also divorce from their children.
"We feel that many solicitors manipulate family law against fathers."
The protest group now has 10,000 members nationally and had held high-profile protests in recent weeks to highlight their situation.
"I want my wife to be as much a mum to our children as I want to be a dad," said Mr Lindley.
Paul Midgley, Yorkshire co-ordinator of Fathers 4 Justice, said the starting position for a couple in terms of gaining access to their children should be 50:50. As it stands now our starting point is nothing.
One of the protesters, speaking through a loudspeaker, said: "Depriving a child access to a caring, loving father amounts to emotional child abuse."
Karen Woodhead, head of family law at Parker Bird, was unavailable for comment.

Quote from TERA

So are some of it's radical ideas (eliminating no-fault divorce

It may sound like a radical idea, and in the current sexual climate it may even *be* a radical idea, but there is no way relations between men and women can be equalized while no fault divorce continues to be the norm. It really is the lynchpin of everything else. Tinkering here and there with support levels and fairness in custody hearings is like tilting at windmills, really.

As for the poll, it seems static to me -- gain some, lose some. I fully expect that this will be the case for quite some time. I do not think that initiatives by ourselves or together with some umbrella group will make much of a difference in the broader culture and the legal system in particular. I think that the only thing that will turn this around is a profound crisis, and while some of us can see that crisis coming, it hasn't hit with full force yet. When it does, the civilization as a whole will have a decision to make. But I don't expect that we'll ever really have much of an impact. That doesn't mean we shouldn't try, but realism is important as well.

My view again is historical:

Positive

-More males in general are moving to see feminism as evil.

-More men are aware of the movement and are begining to speak up to the unconverted.

-MRA/FRA organizations continue to appear to a net gain from those that fold.

-Our enemies are no longer ignore us and are actively & feeblly trying to answer for their injustice (the best parts of equality and chivalry only going to women).

- Feminist leadership is getting old & ugly and young women are less interested in listening to old & ugly women, as feminists did to their elder women long ago.

-Younger feminist leadership are less thinknig and more feeling in their efforts, as our debates show.

-Men unify better when all their feet are to the flame, and the present economy will increase men disillusionment with the PC world.

-Hollywood's sales have been going down for years and with the new economy it will be getting worse. This is in combination with other feminist pushing media falling bodes well for us. The Internet just surpassed newspapers as to where people get more news coverage. MRAs are a much higher percentage in this area than the other that is in decline.

-Small steps at cooperation have occured.

-Two of the three branches of government in the US are in the hands of the most pro-feminist party and all faliures can no longer be placed at conservative forces feet. There is no where to go but up. Old conservative leaders are steppping down from the party and positions are being filled with new blood with a better ear to the ground who will try to meet some MRA demands or fail to get into power. The best example of this has been in Canada where the conservatives cut funding for feminist issues twice, even before the economic crisis.

-International MRA organizations are now aware of each other and exchange ideas, news and actions so as to give organizations a chance to avoid repeating actions that have not worked, while using ones that are more effective.

- Old 60s MRAs are being slowly replaced by younger leaders that are more agressive and less filled with self-doubt as to the evilness of feminism.

- The debate of ideas in the MRA cause is now vast and well articulated.

Negatives


- Coordination is still low & slow between organizations as each group finds way to not work with others due competitiveness and cheater detections traits.

- Funds are still wasted in actions already proven to be failures many times over, out of plain stubborn bloody mindedness, or corruption from legal groups who don't want men giving up on the courts.

- Scapegoats and distractive issues are still used by the government to get men to choose sides on issues that have no barring in their daily lives. Men need to become more pragmatic in which issue they want to fight for.

-Men continue to hold on to national issues over that of international ones, thus giving the international ground to the other side. This makes the cause seem reactionary over revolutionary. We must make the other side fear international coodination between MRAs & patriarchal states which are the majority of states in the world. They must be the ones that retreat to nationalism and reactionary ways.

Quote from Billy

Thanks for posting this.
gutsy! I'm surprised they weren't arrested.

Of course Karen wouldn't show nor would she know how to respond anyway.

I have a professional standard video of the entire mission from start to finish, I used it as part of my last court case for access and was labelled a "person with a history of violence towards lawyers and other experts"..

Interesting, since when did waving an empty petrol can while pulling silly faces or trying to have sex with the nozzle end class one as a violent lunatic?

Still, i didnt want to create the wrong impression about myself, cant have them thinking I am some pussy who gives a fuck about the vile family law system of state-sponsored child abuse can I?

It was a classic hit and the lads involved did me proud.

That is what can be done with a group of solid gents, join the group on monday, hit the ex's solictor the next day.. Go on to "win" the case because the other sides legal team backs right off and refuses to play!

hehe!!

My house was searched by the cops, because of course I had lots of "big guns" and other weapons, social workers had to interview me accompanied, such was the level of respect generated..

The police seemed to enjoy having one of their major sources of legally inspired DV timewasting bullshit treated to some direct medication!

We did lots of hits, sometimes up to 6 offices in a day, was great fun..

It was a classic hit and the lads involved did me proud. Haahoo

It was a classic hit alright.

Let's hear that again for those at the back.

It was a classic hit .

Well done Hahoo.

You have a niche to be proud of and lessons for us all.

My view again is historical:

................ Timo

A sound precis of pros and cons. A good list of achievement and with that International 'helicopter view' that is needed. Your niche.

Quote from Timocrat

My view again is historical:

Positive

-More males in general are moving to see feminism as evil.

I dont see much evidence for that.

-More men are aware of the movement and are begining to speak up to the unconverted.

There seems to be a greater level of awareness in the wider society, but I would say that at the same time many men are moving the wrong way and reacting to feminism by doing themselves no favours.. Self castration, or taking the recreational sex route, but that just my opinion..

-MRA/FRA organizations continue to appear to a net gain from those that fold.

The existance of 1000 blogs (written by 200 true individuals), and the splitting of one group of 1000 into 5 groups of 10 does not exactly persuade me that "more is better"..

-

Our enemies are no longer ignore us and are actively & feeblly trying to answer for their injustice (the best parts of equality and chivalry only going to women).

Thats why they have effectively brought in several anti-male policies that are directly offensive to practically ALL mra and freedom lovers..?

Such as the current attacks on the male clients of whores..

The enemies will only communicate with the moderates and they answer with MORE STATISM and dont ever consider the matters that would would truly be useful. The enemies are much smarter than the majority of MRA's and know that when they engage in dialogue, they win on several levels, delaying tactics and persuading the groups to concede to MORE statism or give "empty promises" for change that will mean nothing..

- Feminist leadership is getting old & ugly and young women are less interested in listening to old & ugly women, as feminists did to their elder women long ago.

True. But the slut culture has taken their place. Women listen to sluts, it seems and sadly, so do many MRA's..

-Younger feminist leadership are less thinknig and more feeling in their efforts, as our debates show.

Not sure what you mean by this, but I have noted they do have a talent for worming round men with their womanly skills much more than the previous generation of outright man haters! this is dangerous for us!

-Men unify better when all their feet are to the flame, and the present economy will increase men disillusionment with the PC world.

Yes.

-Hollywood's sales have been going down for years and with the new economy it will be getting worse. This is in combination with other feminist pushing media falling bodes well for us. The Internet just surpassed newspapers as to where people get more news coverage. MRAs are a much higher percentage in this area than the other that is in decline.

The internet is a wankshed that destracts more than helps I would say. It is not used by the MRM effectively, and nor can it ever be as it is subject to state control and rules. It COULD be used better by the MRM, but it seems that women run away with first prize when it comes to effective use of the internet for social reasons!

-Small steps at cooperation have occured.

What sort of co-operation? Does it match the huge amounts of rampant splitting that has occurred? I see moderates are now MORE AGGRESSIVE in despatching "hards" than they used to be and hards seem unable to unite..

-Two of the three branches of government in the US are in the hands of the most pro-feminist party and all faliures can no longer be placed at conservative forces feet. There is no where to go but up. Old conservative leaders are steppping down from the party and positions are being filled with new blood with a better ear to the ground who will try to meet some MRA demands or fail to get into power. The best example of this has been in Canada where the conservatives cut funding for feminist issues twice, even before the economic crisis.

What is the benefit of having pro-feminists in power? does that not indicate that society is desiring MORE feminism than before? Its a strange sort of optimist that sees votes for more feminism as something that is beneficial? if society as a whole is wanting MORE of the things we are opposed to, then how does that strengthen the MRM?

-International MRA organizations are now aware of each other and exchange ideas, news and actions so as to give organizations a chance to avoid repeating actions that have not worked, while using ones that are more effective.

Which actions have not worked? Which ones are more effective?

- Old 60s MRAs are being slowly replaced by younger leaders that are more agressive and less filled with self-doubt as to the evilness of feminism.

I seriously doubt this! Where are the "aggressive" mrm leaders?

-

The debate of ideas in the MRA cause is now vast and well articulated.

It is so vast as to be a destraction, a time wasting experience and effectively acts as state-feminisms approved safety valve for the boys..


Negatives

- Coordination is still low & slow between organizations as each group finds way to not work with others due competitiveness and cheater detections traits.

Lots of personaility clashes based on the sort of differences that you have identified, religion, politics, class, education levels, etc.. There is also problems with geographic dispersion and limited resources etc.

- Funds are still wasted in actions already proven to be failures many times over, out of plain stubborn bloody mindedness, or corruption from legal groups who don't want men giving up on the courts.

Funds? who has funds? men waste extraordinary amounts of money on their personal court cases etc.. mens groups dont seem to have funds, the only group I know that DID have a big funds chest, was highly criticised by its own members and set a bad example. what actions are proven to be failures?


-

Scapegoats and distractive issues are still used by the government to get men to choose sides on issues that have no barring in their daily lives. Men need to become more pragmatic in which issue they want to fight for.

Examples?

-Men continue to hold on to national issues over that of international ones, thus giving the international ground to the other side. This makes the cause seem reactionary over revolutionary. We must make the other side fear international coodination between MRAs & patriarchal states which are the majority of states in the world. They must be the ones that retreat to nationalism and reactionary ways.

I dont see what the international scene has to do with the movement as it is only relevant for the swapping of info, examples, etc..

Every person is subject to the law of ONE nation he lives in..

Quote from Billy

OH so you were in that group?

What experts Ya mean the family interference teams?

Not surprised that you would go for the nozzle.

yes., I put my pic in the avatar, for some reason i cant upload files in posts.

It is a shame that noone from that group of gents is active in anyway now as far as I know..

15 gents, all wasted by the infighting and jaded with it all..

Everyone was either pissed off with Matt O Connor's management or pissed off with folk who were pissed off with Matt, and new organisations were discussed, but they came to nothing because, Matt was the lynch pin as he had created the whole system of activism and laid the groundwork and imagery etc..

steady on chaps, we will get there...or future generations will.
Movements take TIME
Rome wasn't built in a day

Quote from alpha

steady on chaps, we will get there...or future generations will.
Movements take TIME
Rome wasn't built in a day

But, the pyramids only took a couple years each...