Yup, I agree with a lot of the above points. The idea of the state is not bad as such - but the power of the modern state has turned our societies into institutions where there are more and more laws and less and less freedom. The state has moved increasingly into our private/families lives and we have no control over it. Orwell's 1984 was written as a warning - today it has become a manual for most states. Politicians and bureaucrats like to accumulate power - often they feel they are doing something good, but it gets to the point we are all controlled. A totalitarian society is no longer a threat it is almost a reality - the war on terrorism and technology (internet), make it so, when combined with the powers of the state. In the 1930's Stalin's Russia would purge those it did not like - the war on terrorism gives liberal democracies the same power - albeit on a smaller scale.

Lets look at business. In ALL modern states the governments believe they should have minimum state intervention in business - for governments fear they will mess things up. Also, if the state goes too far business can pack its bags and head for another country. However, when it comes to the individual/family, the opposite rule is applied - the state intervenes and does what it wants. Maybe we should ask politicans to intervene in business as much as it does the family, I wonder how they would reply!

The question is why is this so. I believe that this dates from the early years after WWII when psychology rose in importance (see/wiki Tavistock institute in uk) and psychologists began to redefine the family as a unit not based on a contractual obligation (ie marraige contract) to treating marriages as "relationships" and gives gave psychologist a blank cheque to intervene in the modern family. The result is the mess we have today.

I think you can't decide who you dislike more, the state or the people.

Quote from Richard

The idea of the state is not bad as such

No, unfortunately if you take the non-aggression principle seriously, you'll come to the conclusion that the state will inevitably violate that principle.

Quote from Garak

I think you can't decide who you dislike more, the state or the people.

Edited out.
Actually to be quite frank I view most people to be manipulated and misinformed.

Isn't "optimistic misanthrope" an oxymoron?

Yep, purposely done, I revised my thoughts, I am a misanthrope because I view most people as manipulated and misinformed, and yet I'm optimistic because I believe there is hope for these people to wake up and smell the roses.

Quote from Lady Catherine

Yep, purposely done, I revised my thoughts, I am a misanthrope because I view most people as manipulated and misinformed, and yet I'm optimistic because I believe there is hope for these people to wake up and smell the roses.

Most people are manipulated and misinformed and there is hope, it's called revolution.

Who builds the buildings and roads? Who collects oil, coal, and other materials? Who advances technology? Who will take care of the sick? Who will keep modern civilization going? What happens when the government goes away, and everyone decides to do their own thing. Then what?

Quote from dievas

Who builds the buildings and roads? Who collects oil, coal, and other materials? Who advances technology? Who will take care of the sick? Who will keep modern civilization going? What happens when the government goes away, and everyone decides to do their own thing. Then what?

It won't happen that way. If there is a revolution then a new government will replace the old corrupt one.

Quote from dievas

Who builds the buildings and roads? Who collects oil, coal, and other materials? Who advances technology? Who will take care of the sick? Who will keep modern civilization going? What happens when the government goes away, and everyone decides to do their own thing. Then what?

If we ever had an anarchist society(or the middle road, panarchism) those functions would be privatized and be on the free market system.

So your answer is MORE state intervention? The state has intervened in the family and look at the result - fathers do not have the right to see their owns sons.

What happens if people decide to do their own thing? That is the point - they can join together in groups like this one - there is no ned for the state to regulate our discussions.

Pensions, health, hmm, the media keep telling me when I reach pension age there will be no money to pay state pensions.

Are you replying to me?

Quote from I said

If we ever had an anarchist society(or the middle road, panarchism) those functions would be privatized and be on the free market system

I think the lyrics in this song say it all about state power YouTube - BREAKING NEWS on @covellz Channel | Is WikiLeaks Really the Greatest Threat We Face?

Quote from Richard

So your answer is MORE state intervention? The state has intervened in the family and look at the result - fathers do not have the right to see their owns sons.

Of course not, I like small efficient governments.

Quote from Richard

What happens if people decide to do their own thing? That is the point - they can join together in groups like this one - there is no ned for the state to regulate our discussions.

People will decide their own thing. There hasn't been one "civilization" that has existed without a government. Also, they CAN join together in groups! But what's to stop them from grouping into a new government? Or groups with an evil intent? What happens when there are no more laws that keep society from tearing itself apart? What happens to the brain dead poverty stricken people who lose any chance of ever living a modern lifestyle? Do they just sit back? Do they get pissed off and start rioting and attacking? If they do, who will be there to stop them? How will critical modern infrastructure be maintained? What happens to the internet, electricity, water, and TECHNOLOGY? Above all else, what happens to the people who don't know how to adapt? Is there just a mass death due to survival? What to people usually act like when the survival instinct kicks in? What's to stop a very charismatic person from getting a bunch of people together and making a new government? Then what?

Quote from Richard

Pensions, health, hmm, the media keep telling me when I reach pension age there will be no money to pay state pensions.

Because you sat there and listened to their crap about keeping your money safe for you.

No service should be provided at the barrel of a gun, the government is not here to protect and should be abolished.