McCain and Palin? Things that make you go "hmmm........"

**Incognito** · 31st-August-2008

6 things the Palin pick says about McCain

Jim VandeHei, John F. Harris Sat Aug 30, 9:57 AM ET

The selection of a running mate is among the most consequential and the most defining decisions a presidential nominee can make. John McCain’s pick of Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin says a lot about his decision-making — and some of it is downright breathtaking.

We knew McCain is a politician who relishes improvisation and likes to go with his gut. But it is remarkable that someone who has repeatedly emphasized experience in this campaign named an inexperienced governor he barely knew to be his No. 2. Whatever you think of the pick, here are six things it tells us about McCain:
1. He’s desperate. Let’s stop pretending this race is as close as national polling suggests. The truth is McCain is essentially tied or trailing in every swing state that matters — and too close for comfort in several states, such as Indiana and Montana, that the GOP usually wins pretty easily in presidential races. On top of that, voters seem very inclined to elect Democrats in general this election — and very sick of the Bush years.
McCain could easily lose in an electoral landslide. That is the private view of Democrats and Republicans alike.
McCain’s pick shows he is not pretending. Politicians, even “mavericks” like McCain, play it safe when they think they are winning — or see an easy path to winning. They roll the dice only when they know that the risks of conventionality are greater than the risks of boldness.
The Republican brand is a mess. McCain is reasonably concluding that it won’t work to replicate George W. Bush and Karl Rove’s electoral formula, based around national security and a big advantage among Y chromosomes, from 2004.
“She’s a fresh new face in a party that’s dying for one — the antidote to boring white men,” a campaign official said.
Palin, the logic goes, will prompt voters to give McCain a second look — especially women who have watched Democrats reject Hillary Rodham Clinton for Barack Obama.
The risks of a backlash from choosing someone so unknown and so untested are obvious. In one swift stroke, McCain demolished what had been one of his main arguments against Obama.
“I think we’re going to have to examine our tag line, ‘dangerously inexperienced,’” a top McCain official said wryly.
2. He’s willing to gamble — bigtime. Let’s face it: This is not the pick of a self-confident candidate. It is the political equivalent of a trick play or, as some Democrats called it, a Hail Mary pass in football. McCain talks incessantly about experience, and then goes and selects a woman he hardly knows, who hardly knows foreign policy and who can hardly be seen as instantly ready for the presidency.
He is smart enough to know it could work, at least politically. Many Republicans see this pick as a brilliant stroke, because it will be difficult for Democrats to run hard against a woman in the wake of the Hillary Clinton drama. Will this push those disgruntled Hillary voters McCain’s way? Perhaps. But this is hardly aimed at them: It is directed at the huge bloc of independent women who could decide this election — especially those who do not see abortion as a make-or-break issue.
McCain has a history of taking dares. Palin represents his biggest one yet.
3. He’s worried about the political implications of his age. Like a driver overcorrecting out of a swerve, he chooses someone who is two years younger than the youthful Obama and 28 years younger than he is. (He turned 72 on Friday.) The father-daughter comparison was inevitable when they appeared next to each other.
4. He’s not worried about the actuarial implications of his age. He thinks he’s in fine fettle and Palin wouldn’t be performing the only constitutional duty of a vice president, which is standing by in case a president dies or becomes incapacitated. If he were really concerned about an inexperienced person sitting in the Oval Office, we would be writing about vice presidential nominee Mitt Romney or Tom Ridge or Condoleezza Rice.
There is no plausible way McCain could say that he picked Palin, who was only elected governor in 2006 and whose most extended public service was as mayor of Wasilla, Alaska (population 8,471), because she was ready to be president on Day One.
Nor can McCain argue that he was looking for someone he could trust as a close adviser. Most people know the staff at the local Starbucks better than McCain knows Palin. They met for the first time last February at a National Governors Association meeting in Washington. Then, they spoke again — by phone — on Sunday while she was at the Alaska state fair and he was at home in Arizona.
McCain has made a mockery out of his campaign's longtime contention that Barack Obama is too dangerously inexperienced to be commander in chief. Now, the Democratic ticket boasts 40 years of national experience (four years for Obama and 36 years for Joe Biden of Delaware), while the Republican ticket has 26 (McCain’s four years in the House and 22 in the Senate).
The McCain campaign has made a calculation that most voters don’t really care about the national experience or credentials of a vice president, and that Palin’s ebullient personality and reputation as a reformer who took on cesspool politics in Alaska matters more.
5. He’s worried about his conservative base. If he had room to maneuver, there were lots of people McCain could have selected who would have represented a break from Washington politics as usual. Sen. Joseph I. Lieberman comes to mind (and it certainly came to McCain’s throughout the process). He had no such room. GOP stalwarts were furious over trial balloons about the possibility of choosing a supporter of abortion rights, including the possibility that he would reach out to his friend.
Palin is an ardent opponent of abortion who was previously scheduled to keynote the Republican National Coalition for Life's "Life of the Party" event in the Twin Cities this week.
“She’s really a perfect selection,” said Darla St. Martin, the co-director of the National Right to Life Committee. It is no secret McCain wanted to shake things up in this race — and he realized he was limited to a shake-up conservatives could stomach.
6. At the end of the day, McCain is still McCain. People may find him a refreshing maverick or an erratic egotist. In either event, he marches to his own beat.
On the upside, his team did manage to play to the media’s love of drama, fanning speculation about his possible choices and maximizing coverage of the decision.
On the potential downside, the drama was evidently entirely genuine. The fact that McCain only spoke with Palin about the vice presidency for the first time on Sunday, and that he was seriously considering Lieberman until days ago, suggests just how hectic and improvisational his process was.
In the end, this selection gives him a chance to reclaim the mantle of a different kind of politician intent on changing Washington. He once had a legitimate claim to this: After all, he took on his own party over campaign finance reform and immigration. He jeopardized this claim in recent months by embracing ideas he once opposed (Bush tax cuts) and ideas that appeared politically motivated (gas tax holiday).
Spontaneity, with a touch of impulsiveness, is one of the traits that attract some of McCain’s admirers. Whether it’s a good calling card for a potential president will depend on the reaction in coming days to what, for the moment, looks like the most daring vice presidential selection in generations.

**Incognito** · 31st-August-2008

My opinion: this political maneuver insults the intelligence of male and female voters, democrats and republicans, alike.

It'll be the nail in McCain's political coffin.

Thoughts, anyone?

**Dylan MacVillain** · 31st-August-2008

Well, honestly, I seriously doubt that McCain "picked" Palin. Obviously the Republican committe picked her for the reasons listed above. I hate to be cynical, but how much does it matter which pair of puppets gets in office this time around? "There's not a dime's worth of difference between the Democrats and Republicans."

**christianj** · 31st-August-2008

I am not that into American politics neither am I a McCain fan but rather appoint a quasi conservative than the two manginas in the liberal court.

I think that his choice was a sound and good decision. It helps him in many areas as you have written but I am amazed how many women including the National Organization of Witches have stood against this appointment.

As far as I have read so far is that she will be popular, she looks great (like Edwards, visually) apparently a major benefit, she has some track record and she's not another raging male-hating feminist like Hillary. So as far as I am concerned, it's a good decision..

Time will tell if it was the right one. Obama's camp has already gone into overload and started canning the piss out of her but that was a response to be expected..

Meanwhile..

**Percy** · 31st-August-2008

I, personally, dislike Hillary. I have no objection whatsoever to women in politics.

I dislike feminists, for their lies and anti-male ideology. I like women generally.

It is very easy for an MRA (advocate, activist, whetever hue) to have a knee-jerk reaction to a woman being the VP. Or even the President.

I served in the armed forces under two women - Mrs Queen, and Mrs Thatcher. Both fine women and strong leaders.

We know little about Sarah Palin and can easily make a negative assumption of her 'type'.

Here is a small piece by Steven Deluca. I like Steve. he is a consistent man; a strong man. I have 'known' Steve, as I have known all of you here, for a long time. I have a great respect for his views. He posted this on MND in the past hour.

Author: steven deluca
Comment:
While I was in a sporting goods store in AK last month I told the guys behind the fishing counter that I wanted to learn how to fish, - clueless about that. I also asked the brightest one a question or two about plumbing and electricity in RV's. As a joke, sort of, I said "I came to Alaska to 'learn to be a man' and the pot bellied soft guys laughed about that [For the record I can out shoot, out fight, out run, stronger than... 99% of the men I run into... that and army duty, hitch hiking cross country at 18, traveling the world... I am confident enough as a man to say such things and to not be afraid of women either.]

I was really impressed with Alaska ... while following grizzlies with my wife, each of us with a camera in one hand, bear spray in the other... to visiting with people in cities... what impressed me as much as "nature" and "wildlife" was how damn tough and independent AK woman are. They make California men look like sissies. From one woman winning, five years in a row, the Mount Marathon run - up and down a mountain, sometimes bloody, in Seward... to the female artist who lives in a van during the summer but wears a gun on her hip because she likes her freedom and independence and takes care of herself... gave us some Caribu (sp) meat she had shot, cured. To a woman who got tired of her husband being the Cpt. on the boat so she got her own boat and took up sled dogs at age 40 plus... did the Iditarod -to the loan rider we watched approaching us down a deserted road, on her bike, and invited in for dinner [ She said "I always have the fantasy, after a few years of travel like this on a bike, weeks at a time, that someday some people in an RV will invite me in for a hot meal - and this is the first time that's happened." We meet guys from Italy a hundred miles later who were on bikes, needed water... she had left them behind. Other tough women were there too, running small businesses, not asking for a man or the government to give them money... cool.

I know,this possible VP seems - well, quaint in some ways compared to the harpies at N.O.W., and 180 degrees away from women on TV shows like "Sex and the City" ... she seems what?... not "up to date" in some ways, - behind the curve. And yes, she "might" have gone after her sister's husband - wouldn't you?... family is thicker than politics. Some guy disappoints my sister, EVEN if she is wrong, I support her and would help her if I think she got the worst end of it... I don't assume that to be so, but it might be. We ddn't know that story fully, yet.

She is fearless and she is more likely to challenge feminists who claim women don't get a fair deal to "stand on their own feet and stop whinning" and stop blaming men.

Or, maybe not. Let's wait and see.

Any human who can do her work, have five kids, deal with a downs syndrome child and then not tell her kids she is up for VP keeping that secret... I have more respect for than either Obama or Biden... show boaters...WE, the PC types figure she must be wrong about drilling for oil... that remains to be seen. I am against it, save the animals, but I know that if we run out our soceity is screwed and until we have a replacement for oil... well, maybe drilling will help, jut a little...I think I will listen to her before I judge her harshly as some are doing. It's easy to read a lot, blog a lot, but she is far about where most of us with actions rather than words.

Steven D.

As he says "... Or, maybe not. Let's wait and see."

Personally I will wait and see what this Sarah Palin says and does over the next few weeks and try to get some measure of the woman. She might not be in the same league as Iditorod sledgers or lone bike riders. But she certainly seems to like her husband! At least 5 times to date !

From what I have seen so far (limited) shows a woman who I possibly not take to very much. But then all I have seen is a speech full of Rahrah BS, which currently passes as a speech, and delivered to the 'faithful'. It was delivered in that peculiar style that Americans seem to respond to where a large number of fatuous assertions are made devoid of any rationale or arguement, accompanied by cheerleaders of both sexes having orgasms.

But, at the same time, I have not seen anything that she has screwed up.

**Timocrat** · 31st-August-2008

This is a 3rd time news item on the same issue, Frosty Boy did this one first, so look and read his before you write an item that is old news in the priority news section Tera. I agree with Kim, Percy and CJ, and said as much in Frosty Boy's post, which I have pasted again below. You must be worried Tera to go on such lengths to slam another woman who has been doing things that are tough on both parties, as opposed to just talking and riding her husabnds coattails and fame to power like Hitlery.

Reasons to hold our fire On the VP:

1. A mother of 4 or 5 and has been married to a man that seems not to be a woos so far (at least so far that I can see). She is anti-Abortion, and has a son in the military.

2. Was an athlete herself and a coach (as opposed to just talking tough).

3. Was in the PTA and was an assemblywoman. So involved with her kids education and got seriously into it, not just complained. Had parents who were teachers and union members. As opposed to just talking about education and unions with no background in it (like Hillary).

4. Has a history of shooting guns and knowing how they are needed, and being a hockey mom (with the higher threshold of tolerating violence).

5. Has been Mayor (local leadership).

6. Has been governor of a state (regional leadership).

7. Took on her own party and ousted leaders for corruption. Thus strong in real terms and not only in speeches.

8. The media, feminists and left are already trying to destroy her. (My enemies enemy, may be my friend?).

So she may be talking the tone of the glass ceiling and praising other women leaders, but she has an independent nature and may try to end corruption in the divorce industry too? Biden & Obama seem set to kiss feminist ass, while this woman will not need to prove anything to them and may be like Clarence Thomas and say, "I will not cater to your attacks ever, for what you did to me in becoming VP means you have burned your bridges."

I'm not going door-to-door for her just yet, but the knee-jerk reaction to this new VP is the kind of illogic that we stand against. I hope. Let's see what she is about, instead of hating the wave she is coming in on. Then we can let loose the dogs of war. I see nothing in her past that points to a high strung, city dwelling, chip on her shoulder, entitlement princess. She has and is pulling her weight like a Midwestern frontier woman. The kind I like, more do than talk. She may be the kind of equal in deeds I am open too.

On the negative side both parties are in the pockets of the feminist lobby, and so we shouldn't expect much reforms to come about, but a holding action to anything worse may be in the cards (not very encouraging I know).

A woman doing it all, is much better than a woman who talks about doing it all and has ridden her husband's coattails (like Hillary). If she were to be a friend to men we could be looking at a new modal of what a woman should be as opposed to the Ophra mangina man.

Some food for thought, and let no one say I always call for the harder line.

**Percy** · 31st-August-2008

It is annoying, 'tis true, that three threads on the same subject have been started. But that seems to be the nature of the board. We could well do with integrating these.

Maybe a new 'Heading' or 'Section' is needed - Politics !

Mind you, I have found some difficulty recently in posting to anything but the 'Chit Chat' section. I tried several times to post to 'Female Paedophiles' but found I could not. It would not give me the 'Thread start' button. Instead it said 'go to the directory'. Clicking on that took me back to the friggin' main front page. So, fuckit, into Chit chat they went.

Anyway - to a point of Timo's. I would like to hear from Tera, a little more. It was very brief and gave no arguement to speak of, nor a rationale for a personal opinion. There is clearly a reserve there.

**Percy** · 31st-August-2008

Not Every Woman Supports Women's Rights
August 29, 2008
Statement of NOW PAC Chair Kim Gandy on the Selection of Sarah Palin as John McCain's Vice Presidential Pick

Sen. John McCain's choice of Alaska governor Sarah Palin as his running mate is a cynical effort to appeal to disappointed Hillary Clinton voters and get them to vote, ultimately, against their own self-interest.

Gov. Palin may be the second woman vice-presidential candidate on a major party ticket, but she is not the right woman. Sadly, she is a woman who opposes women's rights, just like John McCain.

The fact that Palin is a mother of five who has a 4-month-old baby, a woman who is juggling work and family responsibilities, will speak to many women. But will Palin speak FOR women? Based on her record and her stated positions, the answer is clearly No.

In a gubernatorial debate, Palin stated emphatically that her opposition to abortion was so great, so total, that even if her teenage daughter was impregnated by a rapist, she would "choose life" -- meaning apparently that she would not permit her daughter to have an abortion.

Palin also had to withdraw her appointment of a top public safety commissioner who had been reprimanded for sexual harassment, although Palin had been warned about his background through letters by the sexual harassment complainant.

What McCain does not understand is that women supported Hillary Clinton not just because she was a woman, but because she was a champion on their issues. They will surely not find Sarah Palin to be an advocate for women.
Sen. Joe Biden is the VP candidate who appeals to women, with his authorship and championing of landmark domestic violence legislation, support for pay equity, and advocacy for women around the world.

Finally, as the chair of NOW's Political Action Committee, I am frequently asked whether NOW supports women candidates just because they are women. This gives me an opportunity to once again answer that question with an emphatic 'No.' We recognize the importance of having women's rights supporters at every level but, like Sarah Palin, not every woman supports women's rights.

###

For Immediate Release
Contact: Mai Shiozaki, 202-628-8669, ext. 116; cell 202-641-1906

**Marx** · 31st-August-2008

Quote from Percy

Mind you, I have found some difficulty recently in posting to anything but the 'Chit Chat' section. I tried several times to post to 'Female Paedophiles' but found I could not. It would not give me the 'Thread start' button. Instead it said 'go to the directory'. Clicking on that took me back to the friggin' main front page. So, fuckit, into Chit chat they went.

Sorry Percy. You're right of course, this is something I am responsible for through various reasons. I hadn't realised this was the outcome. Please report these issues to the bugs/help section as sometimes I don't realise the outcome of two or more actions I undertake on the site's engine. I'll resolve this shortly.

**Incognito** · 31st-August-2008

Quote from Timocrat

This is a 3rd time news item on the same issue, Frosty Boy did this one first, so look and read his before you write an item that is old news in the priority news section Tera. I agree with Kim, Percy and CJ, and said as much in Frosty Boy's post, which I have pasted again below. You must be worried Tera to go on such lengths to slam another woman who has been doing things that are tough on both parties, as opposed to just talking and riding her husabnds coattails and fame to power like Hitlery.

Give me an infraction Marx...Timocrat you're an asshole. You don't have to be such a prick, ya know. Sorry I posted this thread without noticing that Frostyboy posted a similar one first. You gonna rake Brian over the same coals for posting his after mine? (If you haven't, don't.) I'm sure he meant no harm. You need a class or two in personality. Your tact is absolutely amazing. I've had enough of the way you choose to talk to me. Sometimes you gotta fight fire with fire, and this is one of those times. So Marx, give me that infraction, it's worth it.

I did not "go on in such lengths" slamming that woman. I didn't write the fucking article. But I do agree with it. It's a fucking desperate and stupid political maneuver meant to draw support from those who supported Hillary. Nothing more. Personally, I would not feel comfortable with Palin for VP because she defintely lacks experience. What if McCain won the presidency, and something happened to him? Suppose he had a heart attack and Palin became our president? Do you really think she has any clue about foreign policy?

I'm entitled to my opinions, Timocrat. You don't have to like them.

**Dylan MacVillain** · 31st-August-2008

No Dan Quayle
American Thinker - Bellevue,WA,USA
On the other hand, I see in our modern society that girls are increasingly taught to replace equality with misandry, assertiveness with bitchiness, ...

**themanonthestreet** · 31st-August-2008

...Do you really think she has any clue about foreign policy? ....

...and Obama & VAWA Joe do?

Uhuh.

TMOTS

**Percy** · 31st-August-2008

American Foreign Policy, from a foreigner's point of view, should start with....

Page 1.
Mind your own fucking business.
Pg 2
Intentionally blank.

**khankrumthebulgar** · 31st-August-2008

Tera just a question. Where did you learn about Politics from? The appointment of Palin was genius according to the Admin at the reclusiveleftist.com a rabid Hilliary supporter. Why? It brings the misogyny of the Obama supporters who insulted Hilliary and her supporters during the primary. They will either stay home, or Vote for McCain to show the Democratic Party good ole boys network they cannot crap all over Women.

Second Sarah Palin is a staunch Conservative Christian, pro Energy who cleaned up Republican corruption and cronyism in her own state. Then she went after Democratic Corruption. She is a real person. Not a Washignton Insider. She is anti Abortion, a mother of Five, whose Son Track leaves for Iraq with the US Army on Sept. 11th. McCain's sons serve. One is a Marine who has seen combat in Iraq, the other two members of the US Navy. McCain is a descendant of a Member of the Staff of General George Washington!!!

This solidifies the Conservative Base, brings the Evangelical Christians who are now energized and excited about this campaign. The Democratic choice to engage in Victim politics is back firing as a strategy. The attacks on McCain's wife's family's wealth is disingenuous. As it is nothing more than Class Envy. Biden is not poor, and neither is Obama.

hxxp://www.reclusiveleftist.com/2008/08/30/karma-thy-name-is-bitch/

The PUMA movement (Party Unity My Ass) are already coming to Sarah Palin's defense from Obama's supporters calling her a VPILF, and that she looks like a Porn Star. They are some truly stupid people in the Democratic Party. Dennis Kucinich's wife has a tongue piercing and is 30 years his junior. Fred Thompson's wife had similar insults. That she should be holding onto a Stripper Pole. She is an accomplished Lawyer and they have children together.

You are not defending such comments are you? Obama and the victimhood politics of the Democrats is going to back fire.

**Percy** · 1st-September-2008

My opinion: this political maneuver insults the intelligence of male and female voters, democrats and republicans, alike. Tera.

Tera, you know that I listen carefully to things you say - as I do with many here. I value some people's opinions.

I see you taking a 'gut' stance here and want to hear what you have to say. You don't have to feel 'back to the wall'.

I clearly haven't had my intelligence insulted and I have a huge amount of it as a target (ok, I am not a voter over there). But you do need to explain what you mean for me to understand your position.

I am unimpressed by McCain to date. I hear a lot about his background and long time in politics and that he is a decent chap and all that, and I can see he is a far better bet than Obama and the diabolical Biden. But he is only slightly ahead in my estimate by default. I was disappointed by his evasion when asked about Fathers.

I have heard people emphasising McCain's history and family (Navy man, father and grand-dad, both Admirals). I was a strong supporter of the last Admiral who stood - as VP. That was my friend Jim Stockdale (Vice Admiral) who ran with Ross Perot. Jim was an impressive chap and a fine lunch companion. We spoke together a great deal. But he, too, didn't cut it in the TV presentation department. Navy Rank is fine but sometimes insufficient.

That said, I look at Palin - yes, a woman - and I do not knee-jerk. I see someone authentic. What a change ! Will her authenticity and straight-talking be sufficient? I don't know. Once inside the beltway, she may be eaten alive. On the other hand she may well pack more than an AR-15.

Either way, back to your view. .......

How is McCain insulting us?

What is 'wrong' about Palin?

And, Tera, who would you like to see as Mccain's running mate?