Hmmm...which came first, the chicken or the egg? Did benefits to single moms create fathers who "can't be bothered to set up family", or, did fathers who can't be bothered to set up family help create the need for benefits to single moms?

Gotta blame someone....isn't just so easy for each gender to point the finger at the other, when in reality, every single situation may be different?

Quote from Incognito

Hmmm...which came first, the chicken or the egg? Did benefits to single moms create fathers who "can't be bothered to set up family", or, did fathers who can't be bothered to set up family help create the need for benefits to single moms?

Gotta blame someone....isn't just so easy for each gender to point the finger at the other, when in reality, every single situation may be different?

The chicken came first.

Quote from RobYork

The chicken came first.

I think the big cock came first.

At the same time, more than 3million men are classed as ‘ economically inactive’, living on benefits or the black economy, hurrah men going their own way.

LOL

Yes of course it was all the fault of men. Glad we had you here to suggest that theory to us. Because we never would have heard that any where else.

Quote from chevalier

Yes of course it was all the fault of men. Glad we had you here to suggest that theory to us. Because we never would have heard that any where else.

Hmm.... maybe you missed this part of my post..?

"... isn't just so easy for each gender to point the finger at the other, when in reality, every single situation may be different?"

No I didn't miss it. I just found it to be a weak attempt to make an invalid point.

I will freely admit I find the fact that one can throw out a rubbish woman and the state support her and the kids a very good incentive to avoid beating her to death and a jail sentance..

I will also suggest that the fact that women know they can get all this is one great incentive for them to continue nagging and abusing a gent, because they know they can throw sir out and he has no access to his kids or his home etc.

The state knows what it has done.

Part of the deconstruction of the family and the state as the meta parent.

Quote from Incognito

Hmmm...which came first, the chicken or the egg? Did benefits to single moms create fathers who "can't be bothered to set up family", or, did fathers who can't be bothered to set up family help create the need for benefits to single moms?

Gotta blame someone....isn't just so easy for each gender to point the finger at the other, when in reality, every single situation may be different?

Well, the article states at the beginning,

More than half of single mothers have never lived with a husband or boyfriend because they make the ‘lifestyle choice’ to stay on their own, a study has revealed.
Fresh figures show that 57 per cent choose the single life as they say it is more rewarding.

So, I would say it begins with the majority of mothers deciding the "more rewarding" single life is preferable.....a view which is then facilitated by the state. Without the option of state support, I imagine that statistic would change dramatically.

Ultimately, however, I would say that feminism is what came first. Feminism encouraged women to be sexually promiscuous and to malign marriage. It also taught that men and fathers are superfluous and unnecessary. That and state support would account for our 57% choosing to be single moms because they think it's 'more fun'.

Do men play a role in this? Of course they do. The fact is that few men are likely to want to tie their lives completely to a woman they barely know and hardly respect. Once upon a time, women tended to wait until marriage, or at least until they were in love, to have sex. Under such conditions, should a pregnancy result, it was either within the bounds of marriage or with someone whom they at least shared a emotional connection with; someone who was likely to be willing to marry them. Hooking up with random strangers at the bar, isn't exactly conducive to raising children in a home with both the mother and father present.

Additionally, thanks to vilification and undermining by society, disdainful treatment by women and a biased family court system (all instigated and encouraged by feminism), more and more men are viewing marriage as a bad option all together.

Kim, your response is really predictable. You ask, "do men play a role in this?" Your answer: "of course they do.." but, predictably, it's still all women's fault. "Women should wait until marriage to have sex. " You might include in that assessment (since you were at then talking about men's role)- so should the menfolk wait until marriage to have sex- wouldn't ya say? I love how everything that takes two can actually be warped into somehow just one gender's fault. I like to point out the hypocrisy in this. Makes me all the more popular around here. Another thing: "more rewarding" doesn't necessarily translate to: "I love government handouts." Who in their right mind likes to be on public assistance? It sucks to be poor. Qualifying for public assistance generally translates to: dirt poor. Extreme poverty. Getting the help does not raise a family above the poverty line. I'm a single mom (go ahead, throw tomatoes). I find my lifestyle rewarding. I work for a living and I take care of my kids, and that is rewarding in itself. Why is it rewarding? It's rewarding because I don't have to cling to the first guy who shows some attention to me just because I'm not lonely. I don't rely on men to bring me happiness, I create it for myself. I'm not going to leech onto some man for his money. There's some self-esteem that comes along with that.

"Enticed by benefits" is such an overused and disgustingly inaccurate myth most likely perpetuated by conservatives to promote a particular political agenda. No matter that it tends to demonize a population that is already struggling. I think it sucks..but hey...to each their own!

Quote from Incognito

Kim, your response is really predictable.

And this part of your question wasn't predictable?

Quote from Incognito

Hmmm...which came first, the chicken or the egg? Did benefits to single moms create fathers who "can't be bothered to set up family", or, did fathers who can't be bothered to set up family help create the need for benefits to single moms?

Note how no mention of women who dispose of the father comes into your mind?

Quote from Incognito

You ask, "do men play a role in this?" Your answer: "of course they do.." but, predictably, it's still all women's fault.

And yours is no different... nor any different to any feminist who only ever give mention to how men do wrong and absolve or ignore the wrongs that women do.

Quote from Incognito

"Women should wait until marriage to have sex. " You might include in that assessment (since you were at then talking about men's role)- so should the menfolk wait until marriage to have sex- wouldn't ya say? I love how everything that takes two can actually be warped into somehow just one gender's fault.

See my above remark.

Quote from Incognito

I like to point out the hypocrisy in this. Makes me all the more popular around here. Another thing: "more rewarding" doesn't necessarily translate to: "I love government handouts." Who in their right mind likes to be on public assistance?

You'd be surprised... there was an article in the papers not too long back about young women choosing state-handouts as a 'career' - I kid you not. And as I've been brought up in this kind of social level myself, I've seen plenty of women who lived at home with mom (and some even had a father, believe it or not) and wanted to move out but couldn't - so they get pregnant on purpose in order to receive a 'free home' (council house).

Quote from Incognito

It sucks to be poor. Qualifying for public assistance generally translates to: dirt poor. Extreme poverty. Getting the help does not raise a family above the poverty line. I'm a single mom (go ahead, throw tomatoes). I find my lifestyle rewarding. I work for a living and I take care of my kids, and that is rewarding in itself. Why is it rewarding? It's rewarding because I don't have to cling to the first guy who shows some attention to me just because I'm not lonely. I don't rely on men to bring me happiness, I create it for myself. I'm not going to leech onto some man for his money. There's some self-esteem that comes along with that.

Indeed - but you're not every woman, nor are the women to whom I've mentioned above.

Quote from Incognito

"Enticed by benefits" is such an overused and disgustingly inaccurate myth most likely perpetuated by conservatives to promote a particular political agenda. No matter that it tends to demonize a population that is already struggling. I think it sucks..but hey...to each their own!

That may be - but unfortunately I know plenty who DO fit that description... one of my ex's fits it perfectly. Over here, as soon as a child hits 5yrs the benefits are reduced (on the assumption that the mother can rejoin the workforce)... there are lots who have kids every 4-5yrs apart, to ensure they remain on the handouts.

Marx, what comes to my mind is "balance," which is so sorely lacking here.

Quote from Incognito

Marx, what comes to my mind is "balance," which is so sorely lacking here.

withdrawn

Quote from Incognito

Kim, your response is really predictable. You ask, "do men play a role in this?" Your answer: "of course they do.." but, predictably, it's still all women's fault.

Actually, I didn't specify either gender, I clearly stated that feminism was at fault. You are the one attempting to assign blame. I simply made an accurate assessment of the situation which is as follows;

A) The majority of women choose to be single mothers because they consider the lifestyle more rewarding
B) There would be a decrease in this number if the state did not financially facilitate it
C) Pre-feminism, women were less likely to be promiscuous
D) Due to increased promiscuity, more women are getting pregnant either outside of marriage or by men whom they have no emotional attachment to
E) Men are less likely to marry women whom they have no emotional attachment to
F) Men are less likely to engage in marriage at all due to current societal issues which can be attributed to feminism

I'm a single mom (go ahead, throw tomatoes). I find my lifestyle rewarding. I work for a living and I take care of my kids, and that is rewarding in itself. Why is it rewarding? It's rewarding because I don't have to cling to the first guy who shows some attention to me just because I'm not lonely. I don't rely on men to bring me happiness, I create it for myself. I'm not going to leech onto some man for his money. There's some self-esteem that comes along with that.

Good for you, but that really doesn't in any way invalidate points A,B,C,D, E and F. It's like me saying the fact that I've never sought or wanted a divorce somehow invalidates the fact that 70% of women file for divorce. Good for me...but it's beside the point.