I believe a state has an indelible right to undertake proactive actions which protects it's citizens. Where this concept goes horribly wrong is when imperialist countries (corporations?) like Britain and America constantly push the boundaries of what constitutes protecting sovereign interests and use it as a convenient vehicle to press political and corporate agendas. We'll all eventually become a target of the state by this lessening of standards.

They even assassinate their own !!!

JFK.
Princess Diana.
MLK.
David Kelly.


To mention just a few.

Celtic, would such proactive actions be limited to say possible terrorists, or all men who, as statistics show are violent towards women....

After all, if you can trust data on terrorists can you not trsut the same data on men.

Being proactive is like Orwelss 1984 and belongs to the category of "thought crime". but as Britian is half totalitarian, I am not surprized that the concept "innocent until proven guilty" no longer applies.

Quote from Richard

Celtic, would such proactive actions be limited to say possible terrorists, or all men who, as statistics show are violent towards women....

I think if you look at much of domestic violence legislation it has been proactively scripted to perpetuate a horrible stereotype for financial and political gain.

Oh right DV is an exception. What about Internment without trial (UK 1970s/80s) Was that justified. What about Guantanemo, Iraq, WMD. Sorry. pro active policies lead us down a very dark road.

Quote from Richard

Oh right DV is an exception. What about Internment without trial (UK 1970s/80s) Was that justified. What about Guantanemo, Iraq, WMD. Sorry. pro active policies lead us down a very dark road.

I agree, for if we don't oppose this, we will be next.

Quote from RobYork

They even assassinate their own !!!

JFK.
Princess Diana.
MLK.
David Kelly.


To mention just a few.

How about, Lincoln.

OK Celtic, I understand what you were saying in your original post and your 'western" experiences.

Here in Eastern Europe, stalin killed millions because someone "might" be a counter-revolutionary...and I wont remind what Hitler did. Of couerse in Brtain such pre-emptive actions may be more surgical, like arresting an individual or two, but thats where it all begins.

How about the forced relocation and internment of thousands of Japanese-Americans during WWII? These "proactive" ideologues sicken me. It's a flagrant violation of U.S. Constitutional rights through the 5th Amendment of the Constitution in order to protect the "greater good". In other words, part of a Progressive agenda to strip individual freedoms from citizens and place controls in the hands of the State.

Look...I'm all for crushing the shit out of an enemy that rears it's ugly head, but not at the expense of the basic rights the Founding Fathers put in place.

I grow tired of the U.S. rebuilding every damn country they flatten as well. Leave the country as a pile of dirt. I bet you people would learn very quickly that if you fuck with our citizens, there will be no mercy, no recourse, nothing that will flood their country with billions of U.S. dollars so we can provide the facilities and education needed to train another round of ungrateful little bitches that blame our generosity for their terrorism.

Quote from James Huff

I grow tired of the U.S. rebuilding every damn country they flatten as well. Leave the country as a pile of dirt.

Right. The whole superior shit is what leads us to think our own people don't need help.

No he hasn't!!!!! But he does it anyway because the usa presidente is a god-like twit

Look...I'm all for crushing the shit out of an enemy that rears it's ugly head, but not at the expense of the basic rights the Founding Fathers put in place.

I grow tired of the U.S. rebuilding every damn country they flatten as well. Leave the country as a pile of dirt. I bet you people would learn very quickly that if you fuck with our citizens, there will be no mercy, no recourse, nothing that will flood their country with billions of U.S. dollars so we can provide the facilities and education needed to train another round of ungrateful little bitches that blame our generosity for their terrorism.

I hear you James, but there are other options. The motive and mistake is to think that once a country is flattened it can be rebuilt "in our own image".
This policy not only generates 'ungrateful bitches' but also inspires neutral countries to take offense at the very idea that any culture anywhere, can safely be subverted by first flattening it and then giving it clean water, MacDonalds and Coca-Cola through a puppet government that Washington controls.

'Towelheads' that can't even understand simple concepts like worshiping the Founding Fathers along with 'Mom and apple-pie" must (in the minds of Washington policy-makers) be suffering from some kind of mental aberration. Flattening their countries and leaving a pile of dirt would surely be doing them a favor. If the country is then flooded with dollars, like they wouldn't believe, the world is put to rights and God is in His Heaven.

Does anybody else see a basic flaw in this argument?

Right. The whole superior shit is what leads us to think our own people don't need help.

So maybe Missy sees it. That's one.

Quote from James Huff

I grow tired of the U.S. rebuilding every damn country they flatten as well. Leave the country as a pile of dirt. I bet you people would learn very quickly that if you fuck with our citizens, there will be no mercy, no recourse, nothing that will flood their country with billions of U.S. dollars so we can provide the facilities and education needed to train another round of ungrateful little bitches that blame our generosity for their terrorism.

James, I have great respect for your activism but I think you need to do some research.

Find out the proportion of the budget that the USA spends on armaments and compare that to the proportion spent on 'rebuilding' countries that those armaments flatten. Look into how much aid is given free of trade agreements that generate the money for the 'aid' in the first place.

Research on the basis and reasoning for flattening those countries in the first place. Look into the amount of revenue the USA earns as a result of every military action it has undertaken for the past 40 years.

My bias is different that yours. I am not a jingoistic patriot of the USA; I am not subjected to the same level of USA propaganda (I get the British version instead). From my studies, the USA makes wars to expand its empire and increase its wealth at the cost of others. The paltry amounts sent in 'aid' are - like so many other countries' aid amounts - usually either to secure trade agreements, garner raw resources or to influence diplomatic decisions. The world (including the USA) is not as nice a place as we might like it to be.

It took Great Britain until 2003 to pay off the bills the USA sent along with their 'aid' to the war effort. That was for WW2.

While it is likely true that WW2 would not have been won without the USA helping, it is by no means certain that Britain would have been defeated after it had won the Battle of Britain. After that great Battle, Britain could easily have simply withdrawn and become 'neutral'. Instead it had Principles and persisted in trying to free Europe from the nazis, but at huge cost.

America for all its assistance - and God Bless them for it - nevertheless made a substantial profit and had barely a scratch on its own landmass. Much of that profit cames from Britain who ended up paying almost three times as much as Germany did in 'reparations'. Sometimes a friend in need becomes a friend to make a few bucks off. A really Big few.