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  • 21st-April-2011
    BobV01

    Re: Let's all take a deep breath, please.

    Lest anyone be interested:
    1whore \ 1hōr, 1hór, 1hůr\ noun [ Middle English hore. From Old English hōre: akin to Old Norse hōra whore, hōrr adulterer. Latin carus dear – more at CHARITY] (before 12th century)
    1 : a woman who engages in sexual acts for money : PROSTITUTE, also : a promiscuous or immoral woman
    2 : a male who engages in sexual acts for money
    3 : a venal or unscrupulous person
    2whore verb whored; whoring (1583) intransitive verb
    1 : to have unlawful sexual intercourse as or with a whore
    2 : to pursue a faithless, unworthy, or idolatrous desire
    transitive verb
    obsolete : to corrupt by lewd intercourse : DEBAUCH
    whoreˑdom \1hōr-dƏm, 1hȯr-, 1húr-\ noun {Middle English hordom sexual immorality idolatrous practices, from Old Norse hōrdōmr adultery, from hōrr] (12th century)
    1 : the practice of whoring : PROSTITUION
    2 : faithless, unworthy, or idolatrous practices or pursuits
    whoreˑhouse \ 1hōr,haůs. 1hor-, 1hůr-\ noun (14th century)
    : a building in which prostitutes are available
    : BORDELLO
    whore-master \-,mas-tǝr\ noun (14th century)
    : a man consorting with whores or given to lechery
    whoreˑmonˑger \-,mǝɳ-gǝr, -,maɳä-\ noun (1526)
    : WHOREMASTER
    whoreˑson \1hōr-sǝn, 1hȯr-, 1hůr\ noun often attributive (14th century)
    1 : BASTARD
    2 : a coarse fellow – used a generalized term of abuse
    -WEBSTER’S UNIVERSAL ENCYCLOPEDIC DICTIONARY ISBN 0-7607-2911-5

    whore is used in the Odyssey which is about 3,000 years old
    whore is found in the Bible at Leviticus 19:29, Leviticus 21:7, Deuteronomy 22:21, Deuteronomy 23:17, Judges 19:2 and at least fifty-eight more places. Leviticus and Deuteronomy are two of the earliest books in the Old Testament and should be found the Torah as well. The Qur’an may deal with this at least at Surah
    whore was written by William Shakespeare at least in King Henry the Sixth.

    -There is an agenda afoot working at least with the mechanics of lingual obfuscation, sex becomes gender, sex becomes hooking up, some of us know the battles at Mens News Daily over gewgl lingual rules, as well as the often fought battles at wick-e.
    -Some wordsmiths have sought for a very long time to persuade our thoughts and our actions by offering ill-suited constructions (now sometimes referred to as marketing). In financial circles, by now, many have heard of derivatives, as it stands the term has some validity within that context, but there are those who think the term was used to obfuscate the full reality. Money and sex, and, estate and wealth are each and all well worth review obfuscating reality, me thinks, only leads to ill suited behavior.
    -There was a time when the word misandry was concealed, thank goodness for the OED (Oxford English Dictionary), it took it seems, three decades or more, to reintroduce the word in contravention of seemingly prevailing agendas.
  • 20th-April-2011
    Marx

    Re: Let's all take a deep breath, please.

    Quote Quote from Richard View Post
    This fourm is public - imagine if you were in a bar and started saying "I know this filthy wh***", people would lok at you and think....
    Exactly - it makes you wonder what kind of dump these curse-mongers live in.
  • 20th-April-2011
    Richard

    Re: Let's all take a deep breath, please.

    I think was Marx says is write about language.

    He has been kind enought to set up and maintain this site (how many of us help him?, I plead guilty I dont)

    From what he said he is not censoring, just setting the TONE.

    We all occasioaly use "bad"words, but what we dont want is every other word to be bad - imagine if you just walked into this group, you would think they are a bunch of pesants.

    There is a private message option, in that one can use what words one chooses.

    This fourm is public - imagine if you were in a bar and started saying "I know this filthy wh***", people would lok at you and think....

    But if you used equally bad words like "a lady of disrepute" you would gain wide respect - and gain the moral high ground.

    But on the other hand Marx, you are getting your opponents emotions wound up and I think it becoming more of a prestige or "I can do what I like" battle. Marx, as you can see, the vast majority agree with you about language.
  • 20th-April-2011
    Zuberi

    Re: Let's all take a deep breath, please.

    Quote Quote from chevalier View Post
    You obviously have not researched this forum much if you are finding this to be a problem.

    Out of the many thousand threads here which I guess you have read you somehow cam to the conclusion that misogyny is rampant here?
    If he is a noob then has no room to run his mouth nor regulate the speech on this forum. There have been enough trolls in the past, who've crawled onto this forum and pulled the same stunt. Quite frankly, I'm sick of it!
    An no he has not read every last thread on this forum so he can't conclude that misogyny is rampant here.
  • 20th-April-2011
    Douglas

    Re: Let's all take a deep breath, please.

    A great message. I have lost at least one person who I introduced to this site and who could have been a great asset - just because of the childish ranting and name-calling. Oh, and when I pointed it out on the thread, I was called a mangina for doing so, which nearly made me stop contributing.

    Some of the "tactics" used here remind me of the worst of feminist meetings/websites and I reject them for the same reasons. Even though I am active in fighting for men's interests, I don't label myself an MRA because I don't want to be grouped with the behaviour of some people on sites like this.
  • 20th-April-2011
    Zuberi

    Re: Let's all take a deep breath, please.

    Quote Quote from chevalier View Post
    But I simply will not bow down to the Tera's and Capt.Kirks that tell me that I must always be nice to women while getting screwed over.
    Neither will I.
    Playing nice won't stop you from getting ran over by the usual suspects. This forum is fine without the language Nazis and white knights!
  • 20th-April-2011
    Percy

    Re: Let's all take a deep breath, please.

    Thanks for the OP Capt. Kirk. I thought you made your point reasonably and it is a reasonable point.

    As for all the @#$% who can't take a *&^ing bit of "&@)>> criticism and moderate their %!!ing language, get <"{)&&^ ya barstewards.

  • 20th-April-2011
    themanonthestreet

    Re: Let's all take a deep breath, please.

    I farted.

    That is all.

    TMOTS
  • 19th-April-2011
    Marx

    Re: Let's all take a deep breath, please.

    Please don't speak for me, BK and I'll avoid speaking for you. (i.e. don't tell me and others what I think when you've clearly no concept)

    If you want to drag a site into the mud by making it indigestible to the majority of folks - go somewhere else and do so. Don't come in my home and shit all over it and try to justify it with some rubbish about fishnets.

    This site IS my home. And unfortunately for you I get to make the rules.


    All I ask is that people replace 'stupid whore' with a more mature choice of words that actually fits the reality of the situation they're talking about. Is that so difficult to grasp?
  • 19th-April-2011
    Black Knight

    Re: Let's all take a deep breath, please.

    Quote Quote from chevalier View Post
    Well then Marx would be correct. She is not a whore unless she sells sex for money or favors. In court she is selling neither. She is seeking gain which would make her self serving or greedy.
    She already sold marriage to her husband. Court's just cashing out

    Another argument for the marriage strike

    Not that getting married is whoring, but getting married with the intent of profit is certainly selling yourself for money
  • 19th-April-2011
    chevalier

    Re: Let's all take a deep breath, please.

    Quote Quote from Black Knight View Post
    "Whore can dance, Whore can work" = endless derogatory euphemisms or unnecessary reliance on euphemisms? It was in perfect context, she was using her sexual relationship (marriage) intentionally to profit and make a living. If a woman intentionally does the same on a corner, she's a sexual. But she does it in a court and we're being derogatory by calling her a whore.

    The worst part is we know she's intentionally profiting from her marriage because she was lying to get extra, instead of what she'd normally receive. But in Marx's world, she aint a whore unless she wears fishnets.
    Well then Marx would be correct. She is not a whore unless she sells sex for money or favors. In court she is selling neither. She is seeking gain which would make her self serving or greedy.
  • 19th-April-2011
    Black Knight

    Re: Let's all take a deep breath, please.

    Quote Quote from Marx View Post
    BK, if you were thinking of investigating a certain cause - and you were confronted with endless derogatory euphemisms, would you seriously think to yourself "Oh this is perfectly acceptable"? Or would you be a little disconcerted with the unnecessary reliance on insulting terms?
    "Whore can dance, Whore can work" = endless derogatory euphemisms or unnecessary reliance on euphemisms? It was in perfect context, she was using her sexual relationship (marriage) intentionally to profit and make a living. If a woman intentionally does the same on a corner, she's a prostitute. But she does it in a court and we're being derogatory by calling her anything but "a very bad woman".

    The worst part is we know she's intentionally profiting from her marriage because she was lying to get extra, instead of what she'd normally receive. But in Marx's world, she aint a whore unless she wears fishnets.
  • 19th-April-2011
    chevalier

    Re: Let's all take a deep breath, please.

    I agree with you that gratuitous use of name calling and misogyny are very bad things. Not only for the board but for us as member here as well.

    All I am trying to get through to you is that by posting a thread like this all you do is highlight a small problem. And you not only give ammunition to those who come here with nefarious intent but it scares off those who may come here to check us out.

    So you are actually running counter productive to your claims.

    I think your intent was probably genuine and that you sincerely want this to be a productive place.

    But pointing out a pimple on an other wise beautiful face does not help one win a pagent does it?

    Maybe a better way deal with what you think is a problem is to notify Karl or admins. I have seen them deal very effectively with people who go over board without pointing a neon sign at a small problem.
  • 19th-April-2011
    Capt. Kirk

    Re: Let's all take a deep breath, please.

    Ok, so now we are experiencing the "pass-it-on" mutation, like that old (really old) parlor game where a phrase was whispered down the line and came out as something completely different on the other end. I'll repost my OP here for perspective - I don't see anywhere that I condoned appeasement, nor did I say that anger was wrong - in fact I copped to my own anger. My one and only point is that more reasoned discourse and less venting is going to be better for the MR cause:

    You know, as infuriating as the injustices and double-standards can be, we *really* need to tone down the rhetoric on this forum. I'm a man/MRA and a new poster, and I have to say, the hostility level on this board is frequently out of the park. I was just reading one thread where a poster insisted on repeatedly using 'whore', even after Marx told him to ease off, and elsewhere I'm finding 'bitch' and plenty of other derogatory remarks used in the most vitriolic context. And I've only started getting into the content, god knows what's deeper down.

    Guys, you are angry, I get it. I'm angry too. But when you sound like a child having a tantrum, people stop listening - the only people who will continue to listen are the ones who agree with you (and are also having a tantrum). That's not why this site is here, unless I'm wrong. It's to spread the word and win people over to a more balanced view. There's nothing wrong with venting a bit, but it's gone way beyond that may times here. Let's all take a deep breath and focus on the discussions in a more dispassionate way. If you find yourself gunning to fire off a hot one, get out of your chair and take a walk or something. Let some of the steam out. Make your point, but be in control. We'll all be better for it.
    In other words, "she used him and took advantage of laws slanted in her favor for selfish gain" is more effective than "she's a bitch/whore", even though the latter packs more gratuitousness. If someone stumbled across this site, I'd rather they see the first remark than the second, as I think there's more chance that they'd think about it, rather than dismissing it as hate speech.

    If some people can't understand this, I'm not sure what else I can say. I'm done with this thread.

    All I am saying is your thread is not helpful and is in fact counter productive to your claims...
    Why don't you go research my posts and look to see where I have called misogynists out the same way I do closet misandrists who post here sometimes.
    Glad to hear that you call out hate speech as just that. This thread makes a valid point and I stand by it.
  • 19th-April-2011
    Marx

    Re: Let's all take a deep breath, please.

    BK, if you were thinking of investigating a certain cause - and you were confronted with endless derogatory euphemisms, would you seriously think to yourself "Oh this is perfectly acceptable"? Or would you be a little disconcerted with the unnecessary reliance on insulting terms?
  • 19th-April-2011
    chevalier

    Re: Let's all take a deep breath, please.

    Quote Quote from Capt. Kirk View Post
    Umm... every thread since this board was opened is here, and I can read what's being posted in them. This board is not wiped clean every day. That's how I know the tone of a lot of these posts, as do others who have posted on this thread.

    Anyway, let's wrap this up - your move, chevalier
    You obviously have not researched this forum much if you are finding this to be a problem.

    Out of the many thousand threads here which I guess you have read you somehow cam to the conclusion that misogyny is rampant here?

    Make up your mind. Either you are too new here as you have said or you are well versed in the goings on here. All I am saying is your thread is not helpful and is in fact counter productive to your claims.

    And as for rapping this up and being my moce. The difference between us apparently is you think this is a game while I do not.

    Why don't you go research my posts and look to see where I have called misogynists out the same way I do closet misandrists who post here sometimes.
  • 19th-April-2011
    Capt. Kirk

    Re: Let's all take a deep breath, please.

    If you have not been here long enough then your whole thread is pretty moot isn't it. If you do not know how issies here are dealt with then it seems premature for you as a noob to criticise.
    Umm... every thread since this board was opened is here, and I can read what's being posted in them. This board is not wiped clean every day. That's how I know the tone of a lot of these posts, as do others who have posted on this thread.

    Anyway, let's wrap this up - your move, chevalier
  • 19th-April-2011
    Black Knight

    Re: Let's all take a deep breath, please.

    Quote Quote from chevalier View Post
    Yeah I think that the anger can go overboard sometimes. I think the key is balance. We do need to put out facts that support our claims. But I think we most also show that we are fed up and that the well of understanding and PC has dried up.

    We certainly cannot have people going ape crazy regularly and I think you and the moderators/admin do a good job of weeding the trouble makers out. I guess my over all point is that while to much anger and toxicity are bad we need to make sure that we are not telling men here that anger is unacceptable.
    I agree with this. A policy of appeasement only encourages bad behavior. Marx wants to be taken seriously, but forgets that outrage is one of the things people DO take seriously.

    There was nothing childish about what I said, Marx (this post is about you from now on), it was very well calculated. Let people know it is NOT ok to use the legal preference given to females to strip men of undue amounts of money. It's an act easily comparable to whoring, and worse in that the payer isn't even satisfied with the outcome. Marx, in all your posts, haven't you noticed yourself using shaming language. "Childish", "Tantrums", how is that going to end misandry?

    You wanna be taken serious, then act serious. One of the greatest forces to encourage good behavior is societal pressure. If we as men unapologetically lower the status of anyone engaging in unacceptable behavior instead of just pointing them out and saying "uh... this is wrong, right women? dont you wanna be our allies? pwetti pwease!!! " we'd put pressure on them to act better to retain good standing among men, just like some men try their hardest to support children because they want to be labeled a deadbeat among women. Looking for approval and fearing rejection DOES NOT ATTRACT WOMEN ANYONE, LEARN GAME 101. People begging for co-operations rarely get.

    We're right. We know it. We prove it. Let's leave it there. Calling a woman what she is: good. Masculism and misogyny: bad. Using feminist shaming language vs your own forum members: ugly.
  • 19th-April-2011
    chevalier

    Re: Let's all take a deep breath, please.

    Quote Quote from Capt. Kirk View Post
    I think you are missing my point, chevalier, but that's OK, I understand that you reserve the right to call it as you see it. I'm talking about effective communication vs name-calling which can sometimes be nuanced difference and I realize that not everyone is going to get it. In any case, the only person you'll ever have to answer to on this board is Marx, he has his hand on the switch that can shut anyone down. Don't know if he's ever used it, I have not been around long enough.
    If you have not been here long enough then your whole thread is pretty moot isn't it. If you do not know how issies here are dealt with then it seems premature for you as a noob to criticise.

    And no I am not missing your point. I am merely making the point that while going overboard on the anger is not good so is ignoring the anger.

    I have no problem with someone here getting the boot if they came out and say that all women are this or that. I also have no problem with people being shown the door when they use too much profanity.

    What I do have a problem with is people coming here and making a small problem look like a huge problem. As you and others in the past have done. I called them on it and I will call you on it too.

    I also have a problem with someone making us sound like a bunch of angry rednecks in public thread.

    How on earth does it make us look rational when you go around making a mountain out of a molehill?

    Quote Quote from Marx View Post
    Chev,as you know I've cursed and sworn on several occasions - I'm not going to pretend that we should never utter 'naughty words' while our balls trampled on. But it has it's place. Some here like to throw "whore" and "trollop" around every time they mention 'women' - that is NOT 'justified anger'... That is misogyny. There is a clear difference.

    Being upset at something we read in the news, and responding "Holy fuck, how could she do that - what a bitch" is fairly reasonable, but some take it too far and when given the freedom to do so, respond systematically with lines like "That trollopy fish needs a gun in her head!" which is outrageous and uncalled for.

    I'm not running a board for morons - I'm running a board for MRA's to discuss their lives and events they see unfolding on a daily basis around them.
    As I have said I totally agree with you on this. Calling any and every woman a dirty name is ridiculous. It serves no purpose. And as I have said I think you and the admins do a good job of getting rid of those who are misogynists. I always have and always will support weeding out misogynist from this board.

    But I also think that this thread runs counter to the purpose for which it states it is for.

    I mean I wouldn't sit in front of a cop who pulled me over for speeding only to tell him that I was involved in an illegal race an hour before.

    And that's what threads like this do. They make it seem as though this board is full of misogynists when in fact it is only a very few and they are usually dealt with in due process. And I think that threads like these do more harm than good.

    I apologise if I did not get that point across in my previous posts but I am drugged up a little and it is a bit difficult to pull my thoughts together in a clear and concise way.
  • 19th-April-2011
    Marx

    Re: Let's all take a deep breath, please.

    Chev,as you know I've cursed and sworn on several occasions - I'm not going to pretend that we should never utter 'naughty words' while our balls trampled on. But it has it's place. Some here like to throw "whore" and "trollop" around every time they mention 'women' - that is NOT 'justified anger'... That is misogyny. There is a clear difference.

    Being upset at something we read in the news, and responding "Holy fuck, how could she do that - what a bitch" is fairly reasonable, but some take it too far and when given the freedom to do so, respond systematically with lines like "That trollopy fish needs a gun in her head!" which is outrageous and uncalled for.

    I'm not running a board for morons - I'm running a board for MRA's to discuss their lives and events they see unfolding on a daily basis around them.
  • 19th-April-2011
    chevalier

    Re: Let's all take a deep breath, please.

    Quote Quote from Marx View Post
    From where I'm stood, Chev, you've always been a good bloke. You don't curse for the sake of cursing, you don't rant for the sake of ranting, you don't bawl insults out for the sake of it.. You have always offered reason and logical points, often mixed with heartfelt experiences that we can all relate to.

    My beef is with those who can't make a point without throwing toxic & childish names out - which ultimately serves no purpose other than to turn potential allies away. You can have the most obvious and clear argument, it can be morally correct and all that good stuff... but if you can't express the argument without injecting toxicity into it, people (who we need on our side) will view us as they view radical feminists. Hateful, bigoted and childish.
    Yeah I think that the anger can go overboard sometimes. I think the key is balance. We do need to put out facts that support our claims. But I think we most also show that we are fed up and that the well of understanding and PC has dried up.

    We certainly cannot have people going ape crazy regularly and I think you and the moderators/admin do a good job of weeding the trouble makers out. I guess my over all point is that while to much anger and toxicity are bad we need to make sure that we are not telling men here that anger is unacceptable.
  • 19th-April-2011
    Capt. Kirk

    Re: Let's all take a deep breath, please.

    I think you are missing my point, chevalier, but that's OK, I understand that you reserve the right to call it as you see it. I'm talking about effective communication vs name-calling which can sometimes be nuanced difference and I realize that not everyone is going to get it. In any case, the only person you'll ever have to answer to on this board is Marx, he has his hand on the switch that can shut anyone down. Don't know if he's ever used it, I have not been around long enough.
  • 19th-April-2011
    chevalier

    Re: Let's all take a deep breath, please.

    Quote Quote from Capt. Kirk View Post
    I'm very sorry to hear about your cancer, I wish you the best - and I really hope that you would reconsider and get some support.

    That's all I'm talking about here. Bottom line: hostile venting feels good momentarily, but it builds toxicity over time. If that's what the majority of people here want, then I'll shut up about it.
    Screw the support I have bigger fish to fry.

    And I doubt anyone here wants this place to be an anger fest. I have never in my years here seen anyone support that. But at the same time it is stupid to think that outburst will not happen and it is equally stupid to play patty cakes with someone who is punching you in the face.

    It's all fine and dandy that you and others want to play nice with those who are out to destroy us as men. But I think the majority of us are tired of being told that we have to play nice just because the opposite sides feeling may get hurt.

    If I see a damn duck I will call it a damn duck.

    If this forum no longer supports that then fine. I was looking for a place when I found this one and I can certainly find another one if need be.

    But I simply will not bow down to the Tera's and Capt.Kirks that tell me that I must always be nice to women while getting screwed over. There comes a time when playing nice no longer works. Playing nice so far has only made the problem of misandry worse so far.
  • 19th-April-2011
    Marx

    Re: Let's all take a deep breath, please.

    From where I'm stood, Chev, you've always been a good bloke. You don't curse for the sake of cursing, you don't rant for the sake of ranting, you don't bawl insults out for the sake of it.. You have always offered reason and logical points, often mixed with heartfelt experiences that we can all relate to.

    My beef is with those who can't make a point without throwing toxic & childish names out - which ultimately serves no purpose other than to turn potential allies away. You can have the most obvious and clear argument, it can be morally correct and all that good stuff... but if you can't express the argument without injecting toxicity into it, people (who we need on our side) will view us as they view radical feminists. Hateful, bigoted and childish.
  • 19th-April-2011
    chevalier

    Re: Let's all take a deep breath, please.

    I agree Karl. That we need to do our very best to post things in a manner that promotes ending Misandry.

    And the rules are very easy to understand.

    While I certainly understand when on occasion one or another of us here has an irrate moment I agree that has a whole or goal should be to promote the factual exchange of information as part of the process of ending misandry.
  • 19th-April-2011
    Capt. Kirk

    Re: Let's all take a deep breath, please.

    I'm very sorry to hear about your cancer, I wish you the best - and I really hope that you would reconsider and get some support.

    When we were kids, we used to yell at each other and call names with the goal of being hurtful and scoring points. As we got older, we learned to instead say to the other person, "I'm angry with what you did / said and here's why. This is what's pissing me off about you right now."

    That's all I'm talking about here. Bottom line: hostile venting feels good momentarily, but it builds toxicity over time. If that's what the majority of people here want, then I'll shut up about it.
  • 19th-April-2011
    Marx

    Re: Let's all take a deep breath, please.

    As yet, I've not read the thread about the man dodging his 9th CS commitment, I don't read every thread that happens on this forum...

    People need to read the rules - they're in fairly plain English, I'm sure and aren't overly difficult to adhere to. If they are asking too much, don't post. No one forces anyone to post here.

    I simply want to see this site be considered a serious website, and while there some who insist on throwing out insults with every other post, especially when not in context, they are serving to the detriment of this site, not the benefit of this site OR the MRM in general.
  • 19th-April-2011
    Zuberi

    Re: Let's all take a deep breath, please.

    Quote Quote from chevalier View Post
    But to say that I have to always play nice with someone who continually kicks me in the balls is not only unfair it is rather stupid as well.
    Exactly! That's why I will not tow the PC party line nor will I defend anyone who has to lie to keep the masses happy out of fear of hurting their delicate feelings!

    Quote Quote from Black Knight View Post

    Make no mistake, we're re-indoctrinating ourselves into a hands-off approach. Men suffer consequences for being bad (i.e. forumers gleefully trashed the guy who faked his own death to dodge a 9th child support payment AND YOU DIDN'T SAY A WORD), women dont.
    Yeah and what happened when you trashed the woman who committed fraud? The white knights rolled in to shit on you.
    Their hypocrisy is laughable!
  • 19th-April-2011
    chevalier

    Re: Let's all take a deep breath, please.

    While I agree that name calling is silly and can be destructive.

    I think people that come here and do not understand why the name calling sometimes happens aren't here to end misandry but are here looking for things to gripe about.

    If some people who come here do not understand the immense pain some of us are suffering then they probably do not really want to see an end to that suffering.

    Besides where else are we supposed to vent?

    If you go out in your yard the people next door call the cops because you appear to have gone off the deep end.

    And you have no hope at all if you dare to confront the woman who causes the pain.

    Or any other woman for that matter.

    So I think if a few of us rant sometimes or let the odd non pc word slip out then so what.

    If you came here to support men and children who are suffering then you will understand when one of us is a little agressive with our wording.

    To be honest about the level of emotional pain some of us are going through I give this as testimony.

    Right now I am fighting a cancer called Dermatofibrosarcoma Protuberans.. I got a call today telling me that they found more cancer in my throat and possibly in my groin. But instead of finding some support group for cancer I am here.

    Because I would rather suffer cancer than to suffer misandry.

    The emotional toll that misandry has taken on men and children as well as me personally far out weighs a pittance like cancer.

    So please understand when one of the guys here throws out the possibly un called for insult to a woman or even women in general that it may come from a deep place of pain and stifling that pain is not helpful to the individual or the group.

    If someone here is a misogynist he will called on it in short order and sent away. It has happened in the past.

    But to say that I have to always play nice with someone who continually kicks me in the balls is not only unfair it is rather stupid as well.

    I agree we should be factual and methodical in our aproach to misandry but hiding the fact that we are angry does not serve us well.
  • 19th-April-2011
    Black Knight

    Re: Let's all take a deep breath, please.

    Quote Quote from Capt. Kirk View Post
    Black Knight was not talking about prostitute in his post, it was about a woman who had her alimony settlement overruled because of a false disability claim. Not quite the same thing, and that's why I maintain that his use of the term whore was derogatory - a lot like a woman grinding that 'all men are rapists' axe. Black Knight seems to agree a couple posts up. Sure, if we are discussing an actual female prostitute, a working woman who does several sessions a night, I guess 'whore' is fair game.
    No, it's not 'a lot like', not even close. What I said is true and based on factual actions. "All men are rapists" is feminist bullstock theory, most men never rape and never entertain the thought.

    Quote Quote from conaill View Post
    So in the context of discussing a whore,do we not use the term whore,even though whore is the correct term to describe the activites of the said whore or should we instead of using the word whore,use the PC term sexworker or the less PC prostitute?
    Saying what's real is honest but doesn't help the greater cause.

    Which is funny because the feminists grew a successful multi-national movement out of calling men as a whole rapists, brutes, pigs, chauvinists, and misogynists even when they were grossly wrong. Dishonesty was their M.O., and right now they're running damage control just to show how they haven't irreparably destroyed western civilization, and (ironically) made womens' lives as a whole more miserable.

    Marx: It's great that we wont stoop to the same mudslinging as them, but the MM is going to engage in chivalry towards the worst women even at the cost of honesty? "Dont call them names when they deserve it, dont wanna hurt any feelings!" It's the same as in the media, we're free to call a man a pig (because he's only into attractive women), a mindless brute, a deadbeat (until Maury says otherwise), scared of commitment (rightly so), a momma's boy, and uncultured (football > theatre tyvm), but say ANYTHING about a woman who deserves the label and it's hurtful, derogatory, and wrong.

    - YOU ARE WRONG, SIR, NO WOMAN I KNOW USED A MARRIAGE TO INCREASE FINANCIAL SECURITY, YOU KNOW, BEING THE WOMAN IN A COUNTRY OF MEN THAT STILL VALUE CHIVALRY. NO WOMAN GOT A DIVORCE AND, KNOWING THE LEGAL LEVERAGE HER VAGINA POSSESSES, LOOKED TO STRIP A MAN OF EVERY CENT SHE COULD GET. NO WAY. WOMEN DO NOT USE THE FACT THAT THEY POSSESS VAGINAS TO GET FREE MONEY, EVER. YOU ARE UNSENSITIVE, AND YOU ARE A MISOGYNIST, AND YOU ARE A PIG. YOU HAVE NO CREDIBILITY. YOU'RE PROBABLY A HOMOSEXUAL TOO. WOMEN HAVE BEEN OPPRESSED BY MEN LIKE YOU FOR TOO LONG! AND WE'RE BEING EMPOWERED, AND YOU AND YOUR MRA BUTT-BUDDIES CANT STAND IT!!! -

    There. I got the angry feminist response out the way. Happy? I think I do a good Amanda Marcotte impression

    Make no mistake, we're re-indoctrinating ourselves into a hands-off approach. Men suffer consequences for being bad (i.e. forumers gleefully trashed the guy who faked his own death to dodge a 9th child support payment AND YOU DIDN'T SAY A WORD), women dont. We're nicer to women. That's the policy. I can follow your rules, but I'll always be calling you out on the logic behind them when your policies aren't evenly applied between sexes - aren't we supposed to be fighting this?

    Off topic: "Men's" vs "Male". I like the word "Male" more than "Men's". "Male" carries more umph. "Men's studies" is a branch off of Women's studies designed to further indoctrinate us. "Male studies" is the study of men and masculinity outside the context of women. "Men" tends to carry a bad connotation, having been trashed by the feminist movement ('all men are rapists'). "Male" is still practically virginal and unframed by another. We can frame it ourselves. Think about it.
  • 19th-April-2011
    Marx

    Re: Let's all take a deep breath, please.

    Quote Quote from Zuberi View Post
    Who are you to tell us how to talk?
    He's someone with a right to voice an opinion, an opinion that i happen to agree with... I've asked several times for people to self-moderate.

    If you come into my home, I expect you to run by my house rules. i.e. no shitting on my bedclothes, no pissing in my sink, no jerking off in my wardrobe... etc.

    If someone comes onto my board that I pay for every month (sometimes supported by those willing to help out), I expect people to follow the board rules... ie. self moderating their language, justifying their statements, showing sources, adding worthy content instead of just spewing up a few silly names, etc.


    If I went into a house of God, and you heard me talking trash in there, "God is a shithead, God did this wrong, God isn't real, I hate bible-bashers" - wouldn't you tell me to show some respect?
  • 19th-April-2011
    Zuberi

    Re: Let's all take a deep breath, please.

    Who are you to tell us how to talk? You are not the nanny of this forum!
  • 19th-April-2011
    Nynrah Ghost

    Re: Let's all take a deep breath, please.

    Acknowledged. Certain formulations are unneccesary and/or undesirable to get a message across.
  • 19th-April-2011
    Marx

    Re: Let's all take a deep breath, please.

    Thank you for posting this, and those who follow up. It shows I am not alone in wanting to see this place improve instead of being held back by those who seemingly cannot express their feelings without resorting to childish name-calling. Not only does 'whore' go against the rules, as stated, but it 'encourages' those with less self-control to up the antics, so we move from 'whore' to 'trollop' and then who-knows what comes next.
    People who repeatedly rely on silly name-calling aren't doing our side any favours, they're not doing this site any favours, and they're certainly not convincing anyone of our moral highground.
  • 19th-April-2011
    Capt. Kirk

    Re: Let's all take a deep breath, please.

    Black Knight was not talking about prostitute in his post, it was about a woman who had her alimony settlement overruled because of a false disability claim. Not quite the same thing, and that's why I maintain that his use of the term whore was derogatory - a lot like a woman grinding that 'all men are rapists' axe. Black Knight seems to agree a couple posts up. Sure, if we are discussing an actual female prostitute, a working woman who does several sessions a night, I guess 'whore' is fair game.
  • 19th-April-2011
    conaill

    Re: Let's all take a deep breath, please.

    Quote Quote from Capt. Kirk View Post
    The problem is that visceral language, while it may make you feel good to use it, generally gets people to stop listening and get defensive. How do you feel when you hear/read a woman calling a man 'pig', 'chauvinist', 'rapist' (e.g. 'all men are rapists'), 'prick', etc. Do you react with "hmm, that's a compelling argument, I want to hear more!" Or do you immediately want to fire back? I'm just saying, let's try to take the barroom brawl out of these discussions where possible. Let's not be an angry mob. Feckless' quote from Glenn Sacks is right on the money. I for one would like more women to see the errant ways of extreme feminism, but if we look like a bunch of guys calling women 'bitches' and 'whores' - in any context - on some "mens' site", we are not going to get anywhere. Let's be the better people.

    So in the context of discussing a whore,do we not use the term whore,even though whore is the correct term to describe the activites of the said whore or should we instead of using the word whore,use the PC term sexworker or the less PC prostitute?
  • 19th-April-2011
    Black Knight

    Re: Let's all take a deep breath, please.

    *thumb up* Yo comprendo
  • 19th-April-2011
    Capt. Kirk

    Re: Let's all take a deep breath, please.

    The problem is that visceral language, while it may make you feel good to use it, generally gets people to stop listening and get defensive. How do you feel when you hear/read a woman calling a man 'pig', 'chauvinist', 'rapist' (e.g. 'all men are rapists'), 'prick', etc. Do you react with "hmm, that's a compelling argument, I want to hear more!" Or do you immediately want to fire back? I'm just saying, let's try to take the barroom brawl out of these discussions where possible. Let's not be an angry mob. Feckless' quote from Glenn Sacks is right on the money. I for one would like more women to see the errant ways of extreme feminism, but if we look like a bunch of guys calling women 'bitches' and 'whores' - in any context - on some "mens' site", we are not going to get anywhere. Let's be the better people.
  • 19th-April-2011
    Black Knight

    Re: Let's all take a deep breath, please.

    To clarify:
    1) I called her a whore because of what she did, (not because of her sex)
    2) Marx said she saw nothing to suggest she was a whore
    3) I told him why I thought her actions were very close to whoredom

    Names are attached to actions, in every case I use one.
  • 19th-April-2011
    Feckless

    Re: Let's all take a deep breath, please.

    **nods in agreement**
  • 19th-April-2011
    Richard

    Re: Let's all take a deep breath, please.

    Well said. I started posting very politely and am a newbee here but starting seeing these words used as currency so I presumed it was acceptable and used the bitch word a few times, but did not feel to comfortable

    Well said Captain, and on time, otherwise things might have gone downhill.
  • 19th-April-2011
    Capt. Kirk

    Let's all take a deep breath, please.

    You know, as infuriating as the injustices and double-standards can be, we *really* need to tone down the rhetoric on this forum. I'm a man/MRA and a new poster, and I have to say, the hostility level on this board is frequently out of the park. I was just reading one thread where a poster insisted on repeatedly using 'whore', even after Marx told him to ease off, and elsewhere I'm finding 'bitch' and plenty of other derogatory remarks used in the most vitriolic context. And I've only started getting into the content, god knows what's deeper down.

    Guys, you are angry, I get it. I'm angry too. But when you sound like a child having a tantrum, people stop listening - the only people who will continue to listen are the ones who agree with you (and are also having a tantrum). That's not why this site is here, unless I'm wrong. It's to spread the word and win people over to a more balanced view. There's nothing wrong with venting a bit, but it's gone way beyond that may times here. Let's all take a deep breath and focus on the discussions in a more dispassionate way. If you find yourself gunning to fire off a hot one, get out of your chair and take a walk or something. Let some of the steam out. Make your point, but be in control. We'll all be better for it.

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