Thread: America's Planned War on Britain: Revealed

I had better not point to facts of history in case some here accuse me of being anti-American and get all shitty with me.

<- @Percy: this American here would

It's a shame when factual information is censored by people just because they don't like the facts.

It reminds me of feminism.

It doesn't help to not look objectively at the truth, which leads to distorted decisions being made and popular opinion being swayed in support of the people who want to hide the truth.

The cheeky buggers

I'm interested to learn what exactly the motivation was behind such a plan. Annex Canada?

Quote from Black Knight

<- @Percy: this American here would

I rest my case.

Celtic Druid, interesting post - as an ex-pat Brit I see it this way, please remember in international politics totally different rules apply than to domestic ones:

1/Britain was an imperial power - and still an expandng one (after 1918 it gained new terriories)

2/There are highly anti-British elements in the US state, so this could have been the plan of one element of the military (dont forget the UK did to opress the US!)

3/You ask why Canada. Why not? Canada was/is pro-British. Just as Mexico could be used to attack the USA, so Canada could be used to attack the US (remember the Mexican-US war, and let us not forget the zimmerman telegram during WWI).

Put it this way - why do/did the British occupy Ireland? Because they feared that the French - and later the Germans - might use it as a platform to attack the UK. Thus no doubt elements in the US saw Canada in the same way that Britain saw Ireland.

Brothers in arms and allies can go to War. Just look at the communist block - the conflict between the USSR and Yuoglslavia - or a better example is how two communist states - China and the USSR - actually went to war for a few days in the 1960s!

Returning to WWI. Remember that prior to the war Britan was friendly with Germany - connections even through Royality, and then it found itself aligned with France - its traditional enemy.

Was America wrong to make paper plans to invade the UK? Well, CD lets turn the clock back to 1939 - remember Britian did not want to go to war with Hitler (Chamberlain, Churchill was in the "wilderness") and do you remember the secret negotiations with the Nazis (Hess) and the Royal family? Remember that Chruchill came to power by accident and that there were fears of a civil war in Britain in 1939-40, between pro and anti Hitler elements. (Hence the British Home Guard were not given weapon but brome sticks!)

What would have happend if Britian had done a deal with Hitler, or else lost the Battle of Britain? What would have happend to Canada? I guess you would be posting "Why did American not invade (liberate) us in 1939?"

If I was an American inthe 1930s I would certainly worry about the fall of Britain to the nazi's andmade my plans. And remember the Battle of Britian wsa a dahm close thing!

As I said, once you play international politics, its a whole new game!

Quote from Richard

please remember in international politics totally different rules apply than to domestic ones:

Funny one, Richard. I was wondering if you were actually serious until I noticed that line that's all too close to one of the feminist claims (Britain has oppressed Americans for thousands of years). An interesting spoof way of looking at history.

Actually, I think there IS some truth in what you write, such as the danger to the USA if the British Empire, which in 1940 was fighting the axis countries alone and holding them back, had fallen. As we know, the USA as a whole didn't see the danger and are still pillorying their President of the day, who did all he could to save his country by helping Britain. Not that this has any more to do with the plans made in 1927-1930 than the European alliances prior to 1914.

????
Put it this way - why do/did the British occupy Ireland? Because they feared that the French - and later the Germans - might use it as a platform to attack the UK. Thus no doubt elements in the US saw Canada in the same way that Britain saw Ireland.
????

Do what?

The 'British' were in Ireland since they drove the Vikings out. It had sod all to do with the French and the Germans hadn't been invented.

(PS. Where have all the icons gone? I could not even put italics in let alone a quote)

Oh I see Percy.

But then what were we doing in Irleand "rescuing" it from the Vikings?

Percy, the same arguement was used by the soviets when they invaded Hungary (1956), Czechoslovakia (1968). The British and French used the same arguement when they invaded Egypt (1956). Oh, and lest we not forget we are liberating Iraq and Afghanistan!

I am kind of proud of Britains imperial history - as empires go, it did a lot of good (and bad). But imperialism is imperialism no matter how you dress it up, and each country will seek to defend its borders - friends become enemies and enemies become friends. International politics has its own rules and at "home" the ruling class always try to say we are civilizing a country, saving it, etc. (terrorism is the watchword now)

The key to analyzing such politics is NOT to use the same principles that one applies to domestic politics. I learned this in a very costly way as an ex-pat in eastern europe!

Added after 9 minutes:

Quote from Douglas

Funny one, Richard. I was wondering if you were actually serious until I noticed that line that's all too close to one of the feminist claims (Britain has oppressed Americans for thousands of years). An interesting spoof way of looking at history.

Actually, I think there IS some truth in what you write, such as the danger to the USA if the British Empire, which in 1940 was fighting the axis countries alone and holding them back, had fallen. As we know, the USA as a whole didn't see the danger and are still pillorying their President of the day, who did all he could to save his country by helping Britain. Not that this has any more to do with the plans made in 1927-1930 than the European alliances prior to 1914.

Well, American was born of British imperialism - they did fight a bloody war of independence against us. We did send troops to crush them!

And I am glad you are not using feminism to legitimate British imperialism!!!! (think about it!). But do not forget, America was a British colony.

But htat having been said, feminism often does not invent arguements, it simply steals another idea and puts spin on it for it serves their cause. Thus not every feminism (or whoevers) argument is automatically wrong.

States, you must remember are not monolithic structures. The government (ie Roosevelt) could be anti entering a war (or pretending to be that way!), but elements in the mililtary might see that war is inevitable and as part of that it might be necessary to eventually "liberate" Britian from the nazi's. In 1939 did anyone think that heavily armed France would fall within 6 weeks, while the Poles who fought the nazi's AND soviets held out for 12 weeks!? Remember Dunkrik - it was a total defeat - if Hitler had pressedon, Britian would havebeen defeated there and then! And today we would be saying "oh American cousins why did you not rescue us?" Do you remember Chruchill's "we will fight them on the beaches" speech - he even said at the end if, this Island, or a large part of it was subjucated, then the NEW WORLD, with all its power and might will come to our deliverance". Indeed, dont forget atthe fall of France, Britain invaded Bourdeaux to "steal" the French naval fleet, and ended up having a bloody battle with the French (our allies!) who resuced to surrender to the British, but only to the Nazi's!

Now a word in celebration of the US (-:
While the USA was born out of a war with British imperialism - it does have a very happy end. While the US can be seen as the rebelious child of our imperialism, it did return something very valuable to the UK - democracy! Remember that Britian was not a democracy in any real sense of the word until the1880s (one man,one vote, votes no longer based on property ownership - and it was not until 1920s that women got the vote!). America quickly embraced democarcy and we only "copied" it, and now we celebrate ourselves as a democratic state and laugh at the "shallowness" of Americans. This is British hypocracy and trickery at its worst!

We created America, but America gave us Democracy !
I am not like a lot of things about America,but I try not to kid myself about history

Quote from Percy

????
Put it this way - why do/did the British occupy Ireland? Because they feared that the French - and later the Germans - might use it as a platform to attack the UK. Thus no doubt elements in the US saw Canada in the same way that Britain saw Ireland.
????

Do what?

The 'British' were in Ireland since they drove the Vikings out. It had sod all to do with the French and the Germans hadn't been invented.

It's even better than that, Percy. Any scholar of Geography can tell you that Ireland is a part of Britain. It's like people wondering if Britain should be in Europe - a glance at a map will show you that it is and to tow it away is a little impractical.

Jesus that is like saying Canada is a naturla part of the USA, or that france "belongs" to Germany, or that Poland belongs to Russia, or that Libya belongs to Italy.

And this is why we have a war with Irleand and then a war with northern ireland, because a region "naturally" belongs to us.

In that case, a child "naturally" is part of a mothers geography.

Imperialism is like a cancer - be in between countries or persons!

Quote from Richard

We created America, but America gave us Democracy !

America was already in existence before 16th century Europeans re-discovered it.

However, if your contention is that the USA was somehow a positive influence on democracy in any European nation, you'll have to do better than state that while the UK gave only 10% or so of its citizens the vote, the USA gave about 35% of its citizens the vote. The next leaps in suffrage were by the UK, increasing the vote to about 75% by 1919 and around 85% of adults by 1928. The USA did not have universal suffrage for all tax payers until 1971 and, unlike almost every other country described as being democratic, even today it is only the women in the USA who have unencumbered suffrage.

The Magna Cartas of England could be said to have started the modern trend of democracy, for which there is no proof the insurgents/terrorist leaders in some of the north American colonies wanted (they wanted the power for themselves to continue to control merchandise and prices), though I acknowledge that they accepted the call for suffrage as a means of getting more people to demand independence.

Quote from Richard

Jesus that is like saying Canada is a naturla part of the USA, or that france "belongs" to Germany, or that Poland belongs to Russia, or that Libya belongs to Italy.

And this is why we have a war with Irleand and then a war with northern ireland, because a region "naturally" belongs to us.

In that case, a child "naturally" is part of a mothers geography.

Huh? Richard, you aren't making sense. Look at a map and you will see that Ireland is a part of Britain, Britain is a part of Europe. The political entities of Eire, the UK, France and Germany are all in Europe but are not part of one another. Canada is a part of America, the USA is part of America, Mexico is part of America, but they are not part of one another.

Clear now?

Quote from Richard

Imperialism is like a cancer - be in between countries or persons!

That's a very narrow and biased viewpoint, which even you have denied in relation to the Soviet Union imperialism. You were more on the mark when you said that empires do both good and harm.

When the majority in a nation no longer want to be in the empire they are a part of, then it is time to release them for their independence. That's the way the British Empire mostly viewed things and behaved, though I don't pretend that there were (and are) no atrocities or abuses under the British/UK flag.

Well I dont want to keep deconstruting sentences and for this post to end up under a title "The Empire Strikes Back", but:

1/I am talking about modern America, not pre-colonial times, as this was the point of reference
2/The Magna Carter was a Magnets charter - not a charter for the people - as you remember hte peasants revolt was crushed as was the Chartists.
3/I DID attack the soviet empire. I thought I made it clear all forms of imperialism are bad.
4I live in a european country, which thanks to Russian and German imperialism means it (Poland) was wiped off the face of the map ofeurope for almost 200 years, so I have been "good" British imperialism and the effects of european imperialism onitself!