I am bothered by this Men Going Their Own Way business. Why would any sane man refuse to marry any woman on principle? Don't we men have a responsibility to at least try to make family life work? To say you won't get married because the family courts are anti-male seems like a cop out. Just because a relationship might fail in the future, that is no reason to not even try to create a marriage that works. If you try to succeed in your family life you at least have a 50-50 chance of succeeding, but if you don't even try then you fail 100% of the time.

There is life after divorce. Divorce is not so horrible that the mere possibility of divorce makes pursuing family life not worthwhile. Besides, what if all men went the MGTOW route? Then no woman could get married and all children would be fatherless. How on earth could that make society any better? Don't men have a responsibility to try to participate in family life just to keep society functioning as well as it can? Stop thinking only about yourself!

(this thread is being transferred from the Seattle Traditionalist Introduction thread in the introductions category. For background comments people have already made on this subject go there)

I am bothered by this Men Going Their Own Way business. Why would any sane man refuse to marry any woman on principle? Don't we men have a responsibility to at least try to make family life work?

Some men may feel and think that way, ST, and some not. Marriage is not compulsory.

To say you won't get married because the family courts are anti-male seems like a cop out.

Again, some may see it that way if they wish but there are other perspectives.

Just because a relationship might fail in the future, that is no reason to not even try to create a marriage that works. If you try to succeed in your family life you at least have a 50-50 chance of succeeding, but if you don't even try then you fail 100% of the time.

Illogical. If you don't marry you will not fail. There is a 40% chance of not only failing but of losing all your assets, your children and future wealth capacity. To many men it is too big a risk. Russian roulette gives you 5 chances out of six and if you lose the pain is swiftly over. Milliseconds.

There is life after divorce. Divorce is not so horrible that the mere possibility of divorce makes pursuing family life not worthwhile.

Some divorces are devastating. Horrible. I speak from experience. And it is not just the man who feels devastated - is devastated - but often his children's lives are blighted too.

Besides, what if all men went the MGTOW route? Then no woman could get married and all children would be fatherless. How on earth could that make society any better?

Rhretorical question.

Don't men have a responsibility to try to participate in family life just to keep society functioning as well as it can? Stop thinking only about yourself!

Men created society. It has turned upon him. Now it maybe we didn't do the job well enough, but frankly its your friggin' turn. make your own decision.

(this thread is being transferred from the Seattle Traditionalist Introduction thread in the introductions category. For background comments people have already made on this subject go there)

Where you will find that I left a comment.

A direct question for you MT...


Are you pro-feminist?

You seem to come here only to be argumentative, politely, but argumentative nonetheless.

All MGTOW means is that you should follow your own judgment. No matter what anyone says about what your "duty" is as a man, follow your judgment. Whether society benefits or not, whether others approve or not, follow your judgment. If a man chooses to get legally married, and was following his judgment rather than doing what he is "supposed to do," then he too is going his own way. Get it?

As far as deciding not to get legally married because of the legal quagmire that may await, I personally think that it would make more sense for someone who is set on getting married to do so in a non-legal way. Simply have a ceremony and call it a marriage -- but sign no marriage license (and also live in a jurisdiction that will not declare you married). That way, the marriage is a choice -- each day -- rather than a constraining force. Isn't that why people say they get married anyway, for the love? Why then should any joker of a judge have any say over that union?

MGTOW are closely aligned with the marriage strike, but that doesn't make the two phenomena the same. The MGTOW phenomenon simply exhorts men to make rational choices with their lives, taking responsibility for their own fate (and thus taking control of it as well). It is telling that men, in their increasing preference toward making rational choices about their lives, are rejecting legal marriage. That is a rational decision. Would you demand that they discard reason?

First of all, it is women filing most of the divorces that ejects a father from the home. It is also mostly women who withhold children from the father after divorce creating fatherlesssness. This also applies to children born out of wedlock.

The marriage strike is a boycott and there is nothing wrong with a boycott. How else do you suppose men protect ourselves and send a message that change is needed at the same time?

If every man decided to participate in this marriage strike, then change would occur very fast so I am all for the idea.

I don't understand where you get the idea that feminists support families and men don't. Feminist literature has been anti-family, even anti-pregnancy, for a hundred and fifty years.

And wasn't Women's Liberation supposed to be about freeing men as well as women from traditional roles and expectations? Why shouldn't we take them up on their proposal?

Do you think it's acceptable for women to Go Their Own Way? Why or why not?

Did you know that 2/3 of all male suicides are divorced? A coincidence? Without those divorce suicides the suicide numbers between male and female almost equals.

I think ST is a male impersonator. You haven't been around if you don't realize how bad men are getting screwed in family courts. Russian Roulette has more favorable odds than marriage does for men.

One in six chance of blowing your brains out versus less than one out of two chances of loosing everything you worked for and will work for in the next tweenty years.

Yep Russian Rouletter is a better choice..

On another note you said Chivalry came from the bible.


How about some of that for your notes.

But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. (1 Timothy 2:12)

Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing. (Eph 5:24)

Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. (1 Corinthians 14:34)

And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church. (1 Corinthians 14:35)

But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven. (1 Corinthians 11:5)

the wife see that she reverence (phoebe= fear) her husband. (Ephesians 5:33)

……While they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear (phobos). (1 Peter 3:2)


No, I don't see any chivalrous code in the bible.

A good christian women is to submit to her husband as he is too submit to christ in all things. Womens liberation is completely opposed to a women submitting to anyone.
Womens liberation is rebellion against Gods plan.

Men who choose to go their own way are doing so for many reasons. When so many marriages end in divorce, with a man not getting custody of his own children, having to pay child support, being a weekend-only father (if he's lucky), it's no wonder men are thinking twice about marriage.

Men aren't the only ones who are shying away from marriage. It's women, too. For different reasons, maybe, but it's not just men who are choosing to remain unmarried.

Further, not being married isn't the end of life or love as we know it. Many are living fulfilling lives without tying the knot.

I say let people go their own way... doing what society dictates is not always a recipe for happiness and success. Often we find that it is not, but only after we've invested many years, many resources, much of which can't be replaced.

We all must find our own way. Life's a journey. We live it, we learn from it. Some of us are cautious, some are risk takers. Each will face challenges, have moments of triumph, and defeat.