Thread: Testosterone drops in fatherhood

Seems to make biological sense. Once he's reproduced and passed on his genes, he doesn't have as much need for high testosterone. Political reality notwithstanding.

A BBC documentary "The Biology of Dads" also proved the same things, as well as listed other biological changes in the father. Hopefully such evidecne can be used in court to prove the fathers bonding to a child is as chemically stong as a womans.

What of it? The effect of testosterone that feminists claim (e.g. making men more violent) has never been proven. The last scientific study I saw completely rubbished the connection between testosterone and either violence or sexual behaviour.

Quote from Douglas

What of it? The effect of testosterone that feminists claim (e.g. making men more violent) has never been proven. The last scientific study I saw completely rubbished the connection between testosterone and either violence or sexual behaviour.

Building on that thought Douglas, a recent study found that LOW testosterone in men was responsible for violent and anti-social behaviour. When the men's testosterone was returned to normal levels they reverted to their normal, affable personalities. Perhaps the drop in testosterone was once useful for raising aggression in the interests of defending their mate and offspring?

Testosterone is the unsung hero of biology. It is because of testosterone that civilization exists.

But it is unsung because it is always given a bad press by people who are either totally ignorant about it and can't get past what they were told by their feminist teachers in primary school that it is the "violence hormone"; or who want deliberately to mislead. If the human race had any brains at all we would have made it a major subject of study decades ago, and made it a priority to learn absolutely everything it is possible to learn about this miraculous substance; because it is the key to how men become successful in just about every aspect of their lives that you can think of.

Quote from paul parmenter

Testosterone is the unsung hero of biology. It is because of testosterone that civilization exists.

But it is unsung because it is always given a bad press by people who are either totally ignorant about it and can't get past what they were told by their feminist teachers in primary school that it is the "violence hormone"; or who want deliberately to mislead. If the human race had any brains at all we would have made it a major subject of study decades ago, and made it a priority to learn absolutely everything it is possible to learn about this miraculous substance; because it is the key to how men become successful in just about every aspect of their lives that you can think of.

I'd like to see the scientific study that proves your ideas.

I would have thought that it is a combination of the structure of the male brain, and the relative freedom the male has in relation to childbirth that has given rise to men being the creators of civilisation. Where's the proof that testosterone is responsible for that, or for anything else?

Quote from Douglas

I'd like to see the scientific study that proves your ideas.

I would have thought that it is a combination of the structure of the male brain, and the relative freedom the male has in relation to childbirth that has given rise to men being the creators of civilisation. Where's the proof that testosterone is responsible for that, or for anything else?

Good point Douglas, you are a thinking man. But can I suggest that you have already answered your own question. If it is the structure of the male brain and the freedom from childbirth that has led to the creation of civilisation, just ask what it is that makes the male brain male (i.e. different from the female brain) and what also makes the male body what it is? A male baby is created from the basic blueprint of a human being, which will automatically default to a female unless something happens to change it away from the female form and into something different that we call "male". Something changes what would otherwise be a female brain in a female body into a male brain in a male body, with those special characteristics and abilities that you clearly recognise.

So what is that "something" that brings about all these changes?

My neighbour has had 7 babies (one's only weeks old) and he still is too violent. I had to talk to police the other night because he beat a guy so badly on the street outside my home. Somao won their rugby game and the nice single parent father across the road invited him and other Pacific Islanders to party (normal weekend nightmare but this time on a weeknight).

I think it depends which culture you interview, but I could be wrong.

Quote from paul parmenter

If it is the structure of the male brain and the freedom from childbirth that has led to the creation of civilisation, just ask what it is that makes the male brain male (i.e. different from the female brain) and what also makes the male body what it is? A male baby is created from the basic blueprint of a human being, which will automatically default to a female unless something happens to change it away from the female form and into something different that we call "male". Something changes what would otherwise be a female brain in a female body into a male brain in a male body, with those special characteristics and abilities that you clearly recognise.

So what is that "something" that brings about all these changes?

The Y chromosome, that only men have and women are deficient in.

By the way, the idea that a human will "automatically default to a female" is disingenuous at best, feminist propaganda at worst. Without a sperm, there would be no zygote so although it is true to say that the eggs we were all created from had no maleness about them (the female has no Y chromosome, so the female foetus cannot be created with Y chromosome eggs), the egg is only half the picture. The male has both X and Y chromosomes and so can create the entire human range, both male and female. His sperm is created with either X or Y chromosome and until the sperm 'mates with' an egg, there is no human being and so there is no such thing as a 'default' gender of a human.

As soon as the egg and sperm combine, the zygote is created and right from that moment, it is either male or female and the biological differences start to be built.

Testosterone has not been shown to have any part in the process.

Quote from julie

My neighbour has had 7 babies (one's only weeks old) and he still is too violent. I had to talk to police the other night because he beat a guy so badly on the street outside my home. Somao won their rugby game and the nice single parent father across the road invited him and other Pacific Islanders to party (normal weekend nightmare but this time on a weeknight).

I think it depends which culture you interview, but I could be wrong.

What does any of this have to do with the topic?

I have yet to see a proven link between testosterone and violence. Don't fall for the feminist lies, regardless of how often they are repeated.

Quote from Douglas

What does any of this have to do with the topic?

I have yet to see a proven link between testosterone and violence. Don't fall for the feminist lies, regardless of how often they are repeated.

The link is that my neighbour is mostly violent when he can't have sex. I may be naive to testosterone and if so, I apologize. It's just that me, his and her family and neighbours see him loosing the plot when his wife is near due to have a baby or not long after her having a baby. We thought this was something to do with testosterone, that's all.

Am I being too paranoid to suggest that testosterone hormone is demonised simply because it is male hormone?

Do we hear in the news about the "bads" of estrogen? Of course unless someone wants to get free pass from responsibility from crime by pleading "temporary insanity"?

Quote from Daylight

Am I being too paranoid to suggest that testosterone hormone is demonised simply because it is male hormone?

Do we hear in the news about the "bads" of estrogen? Of course unless someone wants to get free pass from responsibility from crime by pleading "temporary insanity"?

You are not paranoid but observant.

Testosterone, like so much biology and medicine to do with males, has not been heavily researched. It has, however, been 'blamed' as the reason 'men are violent' without ever (1) proving that men are more violent than women and (2) proving that if they are, this has anything to do with the level of testosterone in the body. (Overloading male mice in an over-crowded environment with testosterone makes them more violent but studies have shown that overloading humans of either sex with testosterone does not make them more violent.) Testosterone is not uniquely male but the average male has a lot more than the average female. (You might find it interesting that the incidence of testosterone in male and female across a population is very similar to the range of heights in that same population. That is to say, if you were to chart the levels of testosterone in people and chart the height of people and have these charts show gender differences, the charts would look very similar. Individually, however, there is no proven connection between height and testosterone.) There are correlations between the levels of testosterone and the formation of bones, muscle and hair and the correct formation (not necessarily size but maybe - different studies conclude differently) of genitals (in both males and females). Without testosterone, a foetus will not grow properly, whether male or female.

Oestrogen (Estrogen in American) has been studied quite widely, though in fairness part of the reason is to improve upon the fertility pill. Oestrogen is not uniquely female and is important in males for the production of sperm and is important in females for the development of sexual organs and the maintenance of reproductive organs, including the menstrual cycle. The levels of Oestrogen in females of reproductive age is much higher than in males but can be as low as a male's levels before puberty or after menopause. The high levels in reproductive females is 'blamed' for 'hormonal imbalance' and said to create psychological conditions, which many jurisdictions interpret as an excuse for otherwise criminal behaviour, especially murder or sexual assault, although an abnormally high level of Oestrogen clinically proven to be in a male (in the only legal case I am aware of, in France) failed to count for even sentence reduction.

That's probably a lot more than you wanted to know but at least it's better than the school books that simply say "testosterone is a male hormone that makes them violent."

Quote from Douglas

Testosterone, like so much biology and medicine to do with males, has not been heavily researched. It has, however, been 'blamed' as the reason 'men are violent' without ever (1) proving that men are more violent than women and (2) proving that if they are, this has anything to do with the level of testosterone in the body.

Perhaps there isn't much research on testosterone but hopefully that is changing. I don't understand why men need to be proven to be more violent than women though but for sure, there should be scientific knowledge linked between testosterone and violence and if it can't be, we'd best get rid of that myth.

Fighters are told not to have sex the night before a fight - poor wives and girlfriends have been missing out.

.............

I'd say alcohol has allot to do with the violence in my street and cultures. Seven women were arrested for violence a few weekends back - same culture mixed with alcohol.

Quote from julie

I don't understand why men need to be proven to be more violent than women

There is no general need. However, anyone saying "men are violent" or "men are more violent" is implying a comparison with women and so should be prepared to prove that men are more violent than women. If not, they would surely be saying "people are violent" or "humans are more violent". It is a widely-accepted "fact" that men are more violent than women - and almost as widely accepted that this is to do with testosterone - but there is no proof that this is inherently so. Even if it is accepted that most violence is done by males, it needs to be recognised that most violence done is in an attempt to right wrongs and protect (and remembering that only males are drafted into armed forces) which does not indicate any inbuilt characteristic.