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Circumcision galore

This is a discussion on Circumcision galore within the Men's Health anti misandry forums, part of the General category; I was arguing on feministing and translated a German article (much work) and thought that information (and the other articles) ...

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    Circumcision galore


    I was arguing on feministing and translated a German article (much work) and thought that information (and the other articles) on male circumcism might be helpful:

    My posting on feministing with a translated German article that list the difference forms of male circumcism:
    http://community.feministing.com/200...ts.html#_login

    Hello again,

    before I stard answering your post spike_the_cat I will adress male circumcism here. I must admit that I thought the comment of not being a “fan” of circumscism was quite offending to me. (How would you feel if I say that I am not a fan of female circumcism? This is a babaric crime not a football team!). But then again circumcism of males is not sth seen as brutal as the circumcism for females. I found something you might find interesting (All translated from German):


    Different kinds of male genital mutilation


    Although the cultures who perform (or performed) genital cutting are clearly a minority, those were distributed all over the world. Another connection is that female genital mutilation only occur in cultures that also always perform male genital mutilations. An investigation found out that not one of the victims wanted to have the circumcism performed. Although certainly always traumatic for them, there are significant differences in the implementation of the ritual and thus also for the psychological consequences. For instance, there is a significant difference whether a boy on the small Pacific island of Tikopia, after he was mentally prepared, gets his foreskin cut in a ceremony, while his relatives are comforting him, or whether a boy in the province of a Islamic state is sent to a "haircut" and then held on a table, while a barber performs his circumcism no matter how he protests.

    The following table lists the various forms of male genital mutilation, beginning with the lightest to heaviest known form (except castration). Information concerning the pain are of course very subjective. It is important, whether tissue on the ventral side of the penis is involved, because near the frenulum a heavy concentration of nerves are located. For initiation rituals the infliction of pain is usually intentional.


    1. Kind of mutilation
    2. Place
    3. Who performs the operation?
    4. Purpose
    5. at what age?
    6. still used today?
    7. How is the operation done?
    8. Result
    9. Pain / anesthesia


    1. Infibulation
    2. "civilized" countries in the 19th Century
    3. usually a doctor
    4. Preventing masturbation
    5. Adolescence
    6. no
    7. The foreskin is pierced twice. A silver wire or even a small padlock is put through the two holes
    8. two holes in the foreskin
    9. Moderate / no


    1. Cut through the frenulum
    2. In the Luos in Africa
    3. Already initiated youths
    4. Initiation rite
    5. 12 years or older
    6. possibly in rural areas partially replaced by radical circumcisions
    7. Various methods:

    a. Piercing the frenulum, which will be cut with a ligature within a few days
    b. Piercing, and then cutting through the frenulum
    c. In the most bizarre form a huge termite is forced to bite through the frenulum
    8. The operation shortly before puberty is intended to ensure that the glans of the penis is exposed. No loss of sensitive tissue
    9. a: moderate to strong b: strong c: very much / no


    1. Superinzision
    2. in the Philippines, on many but not all tribes on the Fiji Islands, on the small Pacific islands of Tikopia (Polynesia), Tangaroa, Ra'ivavae and Niue
    3. amateur, an uncle on Tikopia on Ra'ivavae it is self inflicted
    4. Initiation rite
    5. mostly aged 8 to 10 years (on Niue at the age of 8 years in Fiji during puberty)
    6. still used, on the Philippines, however, increasingly replaced by radical circumcisions.
    7. a dorsal cut, which cut the foreskin and the glans is exposed, but no tissue removed
    8. exposed glans, skin flaps on the underside of the penis
    9. strong / no


    1. Bizarre form of Superinzision
    2. a tribe in Melanesia (western Solomon Islands)
    3. an amateur
    4. Initiation rite
    5. ?
    6. ?
    7. a horizontal cut on the foreskin is made the glans is than forced through
    8. exposed glans, skin flaps on the underside of the penis
    9. strong / no


    1. Special form of Superinzision
    2. a tribe in Melanesia (Solomon Islands)
    3. an amateur
    4. Initiation rite
    5. ?
    6. still used
    7. there are 4 cuts made in the foreskin, the glans is exposed, but no tissue is removed
    8. exposed glans, 4 skin flaps, like a flower, around the glans
    9. very strong / no


    1. partly circumcision (approximately 1 / 3)
    2. A: Judaism into 2nd Century
    B: in some African tribes
    3. A: trained Mohel
    B. an amateur
    4. A: biblical commandment
    B: initiation rite
    5. A: On the 8 th Day after birth
    B: varies
    6. A: Not in this lighter form
    B: still used
    7. The foreskin gets pulled and is partially cut off with a sharp stone (nowadays with a razor blade)
    8. partially exposed glans, loss of sensitive tissue
    9. very strong / no


    1. partly circumcision (at least half to 2 / 3)
    2. A: In Islamic countries, Islamic groups
    B: African tribes, Aborigines in north-west Australia
    C: Western Australia
    D: in Western countries
    3. A: A barber, a trained cutter, sometimes a doctor
    B: an amateur
    C: an amateur
    D: a doctor
    4. A: initiation rite, tradition
    B: ditto
    C: ditto
    D: problems during circumcism
    5. A different, always before puberty
    B: varies
    C:?
    D: varies, usually children
    6. A: Yes
    B: Yes
    C: yes
    D: yes
    7. The foreskin gets pulled and is partially cut off with a sharp stone (nowadays with a razor blade) If carried out by a surgeon, both layers of skin are usually sewn
    8. completely exposed glans, visible scar, loss of sensitive tissue
    9. very strong (with anesthesia: no pain, but possibly unpleasant after-effects) / no or rare (always present at D)


    1. plastic surgery, in which the inner layer of skin is removed
    2. In civilized countries
    3. a doctor
    4. problems during circumcism
    5. mostly children
    6. yes
    7. the inner layer of foreskin is removed, the outer layer of skin is folded inwards and sewn with the glans
    8. largely exposed glans, great loss of sensitive tissue. The purpose of the technique, is to keep a certain reserve of skin to make the circumcision scar invisible.
    9. no (possibly unpleasant after-effects) / yes


    1. radical circumcision
    2. A: newborns in the U.S.
    B: Canada and Australia
    C: South Korea
    D: the Philippines
    3.A: usually a gynecologist, sometimes a general doctor, seldom a children's doctor
    B: a doctor, usually gynecologist
    C: doctor
    D: a doctor
    4.A: tradition (originally to curb masturbation)
    B: ditto
    C: to emulate the Americans
    D: ditto, partly as a substitute for traditional Superinzision
    5. A: shortly after birth
    B: ditto
    C: usually before puberty
    D: mostly aged 8 to 10 years
    6. A: still often (57%)
    B: mostly rare
    C: very often
    D: frequent
    7. The foreskin gets cut, then torn off. Remaining rests of the foreskin is completely cut off . Even the frenulum is sometimes removed.
    8. completely exposed glans, great loss of sensitive tissue, visible scar, missing skin usually reserved for erections
    9. extremely strong / babies usually not



    1. Subincision, lighter form
    usually in conjunction with previous circumcision
    2. Some aboriginal tribes in Australia
    3. an amateur
    4. Initiation rite
    5. ?
    6. ?
    7. The urethra on the underside of the penis is cut
    8. Urinating while standing is impossible
    9. strong / no


    1. Subincision, heavier form
    usually in conjunction with previous circumcision
    2. Some aboriginal tribes in Australia
    3. an amateur
    4. Initiation rite
    5. ?
    6. ?
    7. The urethra on the underside of the penis is completely cut
    8. Appearance and function of the penis are massively changed. Urinating while standing is impossible
    9. extremely strong / no


    1. Skinning of the entire penis
    2. Africa, a Tribe near the Red Sea
    3. an amateur
    4. Initiation rite
    5. ?
    6. Probably since about 1900 not longer practiced
    7. The entire penile skin, including a piece of skin of the pubic mound, is torn off
    8. serious mutilation
    9. extremely strong / no


    Of course not all forms are common anymore but as well as there are female circumcism are performed not in hospitals but in the bush there are as many male circumcism done and a lot of people die because of infections or complications in the wilderness. Note that in most cases NO anestehesia is used (even for babies born in the USA). Interesting to note as well most women that live in countries where female circumcism takes place are for continuing this practice (according to UN studies). Also note that women who were cutted say they feel the same as non-circumcised women. A lot of men act the same way. There are arround 3 or 4 different types of female circumcism. All horrible but most of the time (as far as I understand it) the mildest form is used (removal of the prepuce with or without the excision of part or all of the clitoris) note that not every time the clitoris gets removen). More info here: FGC Education and Networking Project


    From Wikipedia about female circumcism:
    Female genital cutting - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Sexual consequences

    The effect of FGC on a woman's sexual experience varies depending on many factors. FGC does not eliminate sexual pleasure for all women who undergo the procedure. Although sexual excitement and arousal for a woman during intercourse involves a complex series of nerve endings being activated and stimulated in and around her vagina, vulva (labia minora and majora), cervix, uterus and clitoris, psychological response and mindset are also important.[69] [70]

    Lightfoot-Klein (1989) studied circumcised and infibulated females in Sudan, stating, "Contrary to expectations, nearly 90% of all women interviewed said that they experienced orgasm (climax) or had at various periods of their marriage experienced it. Frequency ranged from always to rarely." Lightfoot-Klein stated that the quality of orgasm varied from intense and prolonged, to weak or difficult to achieve.[71]


    A study in 2007 found that in some infibulated women, some erectile tissue fundamental to producing pleasure had not been completely excised.[72]



    Defibulation of subjects revealed that a part of or the whole of the clitoris was underneath the scar of infibulation. The study found that sexual pleasure and orgasm are still possible after infibulation, and that they rely heavily on cultural influences — when mutilation is lived as a positive experience, orgasm is more likely. When FGC is experienced as traumatic, its frequency drops. The study suggested that FGC women who did not suffer from long-term health consequences and are in a good and fulfilling relationship may enjoy sex, and women who suffered from sexual dysfunction as a result of FGC have a right to sex therapy.


    A study by Anthropologist Rogaia M. Abusharaf, found that "circumcision is seen as 'the machinery which liberates the female body from its masculine properties'[73] and for the women she interviewed, it is a source of empowerment and strength". [74]

    The following is from here. Nice ressources:
    Circumcision Resource Center
    Recent Medical Studies on Circumcision


    Circumcision Removes the Most Sensitive Parts of the Penis


    A sensitivity study of the adult penis in circumcised and uncircumcised men shows that the uncircumcised penis is significantly more sensitive. The most sensitive location on the circumcised penis is the circumcision scar on the ventral surface. Five locations on the uncircumcised penis that are routinely removed at circumcision are significantly more sensitive than the most sensitive location on the circumcised penis.


    In addition, the glans (head) of the circumcised penis is less sensitive to fine touch than the glans of the uncircumcised penis. The tip of the foreskin is the most sensitive region of the uncircumcised penis, and it is significantly more sensitive than the most sensitive area of the circumcised penis. Circumcision removes the most sensitive parts of the penis.
    This study presents the first extensive testing of fine touch pressure thresholds of the adult penis. The monofiliment testing instruments are calibrated and have been used to test female genital sensitivity.


    Sorrells, M. et al., “Fine-Touch Pressure Thresholds in the Adult Penis,” BJU International 99 (2007): 864-869.


    Circumcision Results in Significant Loss of Erogenous Tissue


    A report published in the British Journal of Urology assessed the type and amount of tissue missing from the adult circumcised penis by examining adult foreskins obtained at autopsy. Investigators found that circumcision removes about one-half of the erogenous tissue on the penile shaft. The foreskin, according to the study, protects the head of the penis and is comprised of unique zones with several kinds of specialized nerves that are important to optimum sexual sensitivity.


    Taylor, J. et al., "The Prepuce: Specialized Mucosa of the Penis and Its Loss to Circumcision," BJU 77 (1996): 291–295.


    Researchers Demonstrate Traumatic Effects of Circumcision

    A team of Canadian researchers produced new evidence that circumcision has long-lasting traumatic effects. An article published in the international medical journal The Lancet reported the effect of infant circumcision on pain response during subsequent routine vaccination. The researchers tested 87 infants at 4 months or 6 months of age. The boys who had been circumcised were more sensitive to pain than the uncircumcised boys. Differences between groups were significant regarding facial action, crying time, and assessments of pain.


    The authors believe that "neonatal circumcision may induce long-lasting changes in infant pain behavior because of alterations in the infant’s central neural processing of painful stimuli." They also write that "the long-term consequences of surgery done without anaesthesia are likely to include post-traumatic stress as well as pain. It is therefore possible that the greater vaccination response in the infants circumcised without anaesthesia may represent an infant analogue of a post-traumatic stress disorder triggered by a traumatic and painful event and re-experienced under similar circumstances of pain during vaccination."


    Taddio, A. et al., "Effect of Neonatal Circumcision on Pain Response during Subsequent Routine Vaccination," The Lancet 349 (1997): 599–603.


    Circumcision Study Halted Due to Trauma

    Researchers found circumcision so traumatic that they ended the study early rather than subject any more infants to the operation without anesthesia. Those infants circumcised without anesthesia experienced not only severe pain, but also an increased risk of choking and difficulty breathing. The findings were published in the Journal of the American Medical Association. Up to 96% of infants in some areas of the United States receive no anesthesia during circumcision. No anesthetic currently in use for circumcisions is effective during the most painful parts of the procedure.


    Lander, J. et al., "Comparison of Ring Block, Dorsal Penile Nerve Block, and Topical Anesthesia for Neonatal Circumcision," JAMA 278 (1997): 2157–2162.

    Poll of Circumcised Men Reveals Harm

    A poll of circumcised men published in the British Journal of Urology describes adverse outcomes on men’s health and well-being. Findings showed wide-ranging physical, sexual, and psychological consequences. Some respondents reported prominent scarring and excessive skin loss. Sexual consequences included progressive loss of sensitivity and sexual dysfunction. Emotional distress followed the realization that they were missing a functioning part of their penis. Low-self esteem, resentment, avoidance of intimacy, and depression were also noted.


    Hammond, T., "A Preliminary Poll of Men Circumcised in Infancy or Childhood," BJU 83 (1999): suppl. 1: 85–92


    Psychological Effects of Circumcision Studied

    An article titled "The Psychological Impact of Circumcision" reports that circumcision results in behavioral changes in infants and long-term unrecognized psychological effects on men. The piece reviews the medical literature on infants’ responses to circumcision and concludes, "there is strong evidence that circumcision is overwhelmingly painful and traumatic." The article notes that infants exhibit behavioral changes after circumcision, and some men have strong feelings of anger, shame, distrust, and grief about having been circumcised. In addition, circumcision has been shown to disrupt the mother-infant bond, and some mothers report significant distress after allowing their son to be circumcised. Psychological factors perpetuate circumcision. According to the author, "defending circumcision requires minimizing or dismissing the harm and producing overstated medical claims about protection from future harm. The ongoing denial requires the acceptance of false beliefs and misunderstanding of facts. These psychological factors affect professionals, members of religious groups, and parents involved in the practice."


    Expressions from circumcised men are generally lacking because most circumcised men do not understand what circumcision is, emotional repression keeps feelings from awareness, or men may be aware of these feelings but afraid of disclosure.


    Goldman, R., "The Psychological Impact of Circumcision," BJU 83 (1999): suppl. 1: 93–102



    Serious Consequences of Circumcision Trauma in Adult Men Clinically Observed

    Using four case examples that are typical among his clients, a practicing psychiatrist presents clinical findings regarding the serious and sometimes disabling long-term somatic, emotional, and psychological consequences of infant circumcision in adult men. These consequences resemble complex post-traumatic stress disorder and emerge during psychotherapy focused on the resolution of perinatal and developmental trauma. Adult symptoms associated with circumcision trauma include shyness, anger, fear, powerlessness, distrust, low self-esteem, relationship difficulties, and sexual shame. Long-term psychotherapy dealing with early trauma resolution appears to be effective in healing these consequences.


    Rhinehart, J., "Neonatal Circumcision Revistited," Transactional Analysis Journal 29 (1999): 215-221

    Male Circumcision Affects Female Sexual Enjoyment


    A survey of women who have had sexual experience with circumcised and anatomically complete partners showed that the anatomically complete penis was preferred over the circumcised penis. Without the foreskin to provide a movable sleeve of skin, intercourse with a circumcised penis resulted in female discomfort from increased friction, abrasion, and loss of natural secretions. Respondents overwhelmingly concurred that the mechanics of coitus were different for the two groups of men. Unaltered men tended to thrust more gently with shorter strokes.


    O’Hara, K. and O’Hara, J., "The Effect of Male Circumcision on the Sexual Enjoyment of the Female Partner," BJU 83 (1999): suppl. 1: 79–84


    Why Most Circumcised Men Seem Satisfied

    Reports of negative reactions of men to circumcision (see Psychological Impact of Circumcision on Men) are surprising to those who assume that circumcision is a benign procedure. How can the existence of such reports be reconciled with the fact that the majority of circumcised men do not express these feelings about their circumcision? The following factors reduce the likelihood that circumcised men will express dissatisfaction with their circumcision:



    1. Circumcised men do not know what they are missing. They believe that the sexual sensitivity they have without a foreskin is "normal." (Similarly, a woman born in Somalia who had been subjected to a severe form of female circumcision insisted that it had no impact. "It's the same thing. There is nothing different about my sexuality.") (1) According to one man who was circumcised as an adult, sex without a foreskin is like sight without color. Those who have not seen in color cannot appreciate what is lost. See Men Circumcised as Adults.

    2. Young circumcised men may not notice the negative sexual effects of circumcision until they are older, because of the progressive desensitization of the exposed glans (head of the penis) from exposure and rubbing against clothes. See Functions of the Foreskin. It is possible that circumcision is an unrecognized factor in the high rates of impotence in older American men.



    3. Accepting circumcision beliefs and cultural assumptions prevents men from recognizing and feeling their dissatisfaction. A typical response is “When I was young I was told it was necessary for health reasons. I guess I just didn’t question that. I assumed that was so.”



    4. The emotions connected with circumcision that may surface are very painful. Repressing them protects men from this pain. A circumcised man recalled, “It was something I just didn’t examine. I put it away in the back of my mind like a lot of guys do.” If the feelings do become conscious, they can still be suppressed. After learning about circumcision, another man said, “I don’t want to be angry about this.”



    5. Those who have feelings about their circumcision are generally afraid to express them because their feelings may be dismissed or ridiculed. When asked why he had not revealed his circumcision feelings before, one man said, “I would be looked upon as strange or else people would toss it off lightly.” Another said, “It’s not something that anyone talks about. If it is talked about, it’s in a snickering, comical way which I find disturbing. People laugh about it as if there is something funny going on.”



    6. Verbal expression of feelings requires conscious awareness. Because early traumas are generally unconscious, associated feelings are expressed nonverbally through behavioral, emotional, and physiological forms.(2) Attitudes about people, life, and the future may also be affected. An example of an attitude resulting from childhood trauma is “You can’t count on anything or anyone to protect you.”(3)
    Lack of awareness and understanding of circumcision, emotional repression, fear of disclosure, and nonverbal expression help keep circumcision feelings a secret.

    FEELINGS OF DISSATISFACTION AND HAVING BEEN HARMED



    The dissatisfaction of some circumcised men can be described in detail. It has been expressed in an increasing number of letters from men all around the country to the Circumcision Resource Center and to several other organizations that educate the public about circumcision. Moreover, in a recent issue of a major medical journal, twenty men signed a letter saying, “We are all adult men who believe that we have been harmed by circumcision.”( 1) We do not know how widespread the discontent is, but that these feelings exist at all is a noteworthy development and reason for concern.


    Following are some statements about circumcision excerpted from letters written by dissatisfied circumcised men and received at the Circumcision Resource Center:


    I have felt a deep rage for a long time about this.


    My penis feels incomplete, deformed, maimed.


    Circumcision has given my life a much diminished and shameful flavor.


    The single most traumatic event of my life with the greatest psychological damage was my circumcision as an infant.


    Circumcision: it’s taught me how to hate.


    Being circumcised has ruined my sex life.


    I feel violated and abused.


    I have felt unhappy about it all my life.


    I am very angry and resentful about this. I’ve had many physical, psychological, and emotional problems all my life.


    No one had the right to cut my foreskin off!


    I feel cheated at having been robbed of what is my natural birthright.


    I never mentioned it to my parents.


    I’ve always felt I’m missing normal male experience, and I’m embarrassed when in public dressing rooms.


    I feel like the best part of me was severed from my body, and I have ugly scars to remind me. I am so ANGRY!!

    The responses of men dissatisfied with their circumcision tend to include at least one of the following feelings:


    anger, resentment, revenge, rage, hate
    sense of loss, deficiency, diminished body image
    disbelief, lack of understanding, confusion
    embarrassment, shame
    sense of having been victimized, cheated, robbed, raped,
    violated, abused, mutilated, deformed
    fear, distrust, withdrawal
    grief, sadness, pain
    envy, jealousy of intact men

    Similar feelings were reported in a preliminary survey in which over 300 self-selected circumcised men responded to a request to document the harmful effects of their circumcision.( 2) Over 80 percent of respondents cited emotional harm.




    Men Circumcised as Adults


    Only men circumcised as adults can experience the difference a foreskin makes. In the Journal of Sex Research, Money and Davison from the Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine reported on five such men. Changes included diminished penile sensitivity and less penile gratification. The investigators concluded,
    Erotosexually and cosmetically, the operation is, for the most part, contraindicated, and it should be evaluated in terms of possible pathological sequelae.( 1)

    Other men circumcised as adults regret the change.


    I play guitar and my fingers get callused from playing. That’s similar to what happened to my penis after circumcision.( 2)


    After the circumcision there was a major change. It was like night and day.

    I lost most sensation. I would give anything to get the feeling back. I would give my house. [This man’s physician persuaded him to be circumcised by warning he could otherwise get penile cancer. When the man complained of the result, the physician replied, “That’s normal” and would not help him.]( 3)


    Slowly the area lost its sensitivity, and as it did, I realized I had lost something rather vital. Stimuli that had previously aroused ecstasy had relatively little effect. . . . Circumcision destroys a very joyful aspect of the human experience for males and females.( 4)


    The greatest disadvantage of circumcision is the awful loss of sensitivity when the foreskin is removed. . . . On a scale of 10, the intact penis experiences pleasure that is at least 11 or 12; the circumcised penis is lucky to get to 3.( 5)


    The sexual differences between a circumcised and uncircumcised penis is . . . like wearing a condom or wearing a glove. . . . Sight without color would be a good analogy. . . . Only being able to see in black and white, for example, rather than seeing in full color would be like experiencing an orgasm with a foreskin and without. There are feelings you’ll just never have without a foreskin.( 6)


    After thirty years in the natural state I allowed myself to be persuaded by a physician to have the foreskin removed—not because of any problems at the time, but because, in the physician’s view, there might be problems in the future. That was five years ago and I am sorry I had it done. . . . The sensitivity in the glans has been reduced by at least 50 percent. There it is, unprotected, constantly rubbing against the fabric of whatever I am wearing. In a sense, it has become callused. . . . I seem to have a relatively unresponsive stick where I once had a sexual organ.( 7)

    Mothers Who Observed Circumcision


    The typical hospital circumcision is done out of view of the mother in a separate room. However, a few are observed by parents, and many Jewish ritual circumcisions are done in the homes of the parents and observed by family and friends. Although some parents may report that this is a positive experience, this is not always the case. Women are more likely than men to report distress from hearing an infant crying. (1) Regarding circumcision, the father is more likely to deny his son’s pain because it could remind him of his own circumcision feelings. Therefore, witnessing the circumcision and the infant’s response can have a particularly shocking effect on the mother. Only recently have some parents been willing to describe their agonizingly painful experiences at their son’s circumcision. Though further research is needed to tell us how common these responses are, the fact that they exist at all is reason for concern and reflection.
    Some mothers have written about their experiences with circumcision during the previous year. “It was as close to hell as I ever want to get!” one wrote. Another related this memory:

    My tiny son and I sobbed our hearts out. . . . After everything I’d worked for, carrying and nurturing Joseph in the womb, having him at home against no small odds, keeping him by my side constantly since birth, nursing him whenever he needed closeness and nourishment—the circumcision was a horrible violation of all I felt we shared. I cried for days afterward. (2)
    Melissa Morrison was having a difficult time seven months after she had watched the (nonritual) circumcision of her son:

    I’m finding myself obsessing more and more about it. It’s absolutely horrible. I didn’t know how horrific it was going to be. It was the most gruesome thing I have ever seen in my life. I told the doctor as soon as he was done, if I had a gun I would have killed him. I swear I would be in jail today if I did have a gun. (3)
    Two other mothers have reported to the Circumcision Resource Center that watching their son’s circumcision was “the worst day of my life.” Another mother noted that she still felt pain recalling the experience about a year later. She wrote to her son:

    I have never heard such screams. . . . Will I ever know what scars this brings to your soul? . . . What is that new look I see in your eyes? I can see pain, a certain sadness, and a loss of trust. (4)
    Other mothers clearly remember their son’s circumcision after many years. Miriam Pollack reported fifteen years after the event, “The screams of my baby remain embedded in my bones and haunt my mind.” She added later, “His cry sounded like he was being butchered. I lost my milk.” (5)
    Nancy Wainer Cohen recalled her feelings connected with the circumcision of her son, who is now twenty-two:

    I heard him cry during the time they were circumcising him. The thing that is most disturbing to me is that I can still hear his cry. . . . It was an assault on him, and on some level it was an assault on me. . . . I will go to my grave hearing that horrible wail, and feeling somewhat responsible, feeling that it was my lack of awareness, my lack of consciousness. I did the best I could, and it wasn’t good enough. (6)
    Elizabeth Pickard-Ginsburg vividly remembered her son’s circumcision and its effect on her:

    Jesse was shrieking and I had tears streaming down my face. . . . He was screaming and there was no doubt in his scream that he wanted mother, or a mothering figure to come and protect him from this pain!! . . . Jesse screamed so loud that all of a sudden there was no sound! I’ve never heard anything like it!! He was screaming and it went up and then there was no sound and his mouth was just open and his face was full of pain!! I remember something happened inside me . . . the intensity of it was like blowing a fuse! It was too much. We knew something was over. I don’t feel that it ever really healed. . . . I don’t think I can recover from it. It’s a scar. I’ve put a lot of energy into trying to recover. I did some crying and we did some therapy. There’s still a lot of feeling that’s blocked off. It was too intense. . . . We had this beautiful baby boy and seven beautiful days and this beautiful rhythm starting, and it was like something had been shattered!! . . . When he was first born there was a tie with my young one, my newborn. And when the circumcision happened, in order to allow it I had cut off the bond. I had to cut off my natural instincts, and in doing so I cut off a lot of feelings towards Jesse. I cut it off to repress the pain and to repress the natural instinct to stop the circumcision. (7) (italics added)


    After several years, Pickard-Ginsburg says she can still feel “an element of detachment” toward her son. Her account is particularly revealing. That she “cut off” feelings toward her son by observing his circumcision suggests that her son may have responded similarly toward her by experiencing his circumcision. Furthermore, because she was willing to feel and communicate the intensity of her pain, we have a clue to why more mothers who observe their son’s circumcision do not report such pain. Denial and repression may keep this extreme pain out of their awareness.
    Observing their son’s circumcision has left some parents with a deep feeling of regret. The following quotes are typical:

    I am so sorry I was so ignorant about circumcision. Had I witnessed a circumcision first, I never would have consented to having my son circumcised. (8)


    Always in the back of my mind I’ve thought, “I wish he hadn’t been cut.” I have apologized to him numerous times. (9)


    If I had ever known, I wouldn’t have done this in a million years. (10)


    I felt as if I might pass out at the sight of my son lying there, unable to move or defend himself. His screams tore at my heart as his foreskin was heartlessly torn from his penis. Too late to turn back, I knew that this was a terrible mistake and that it was something that no one, especially newborn babies, should ever have to endure. A wave of shock coursed through me—my body feeling nauseatingly sick with guilt and shame. All I could think of was holding and consoling my child, but his pain felt inconsolable—his body rigid with fear and anger—his eyes filled with tears of betrayal. (11)


    Some mothers who did not witness the circumcision have since regretted allowing it:

    The nurse came to take the baby for the circumcision. I have relived that moment over and over. If I could turn back the hands of time, that would be the one moment I would go back to and say, “I don’t think it’s a good idea. I need another day to think about it” and just hold on to him because I wasn’t sure. I think if I had held on to him it might have turned out differently. I just shouldn’t have let him go when I was so ambivalent. After they took him I went into the shower, and I cried. (12)


    When they brought him back to me, I could see that he had been crying and had a glassy, wild look in his eyes. I think it was terror. I didn’t know what had been done to him, but I could tell whatever it was, it hurt. I’ll never forget that look. They probably shattered every bit of trust he had. I’m very angry about it. I would never have done that to my own son. No mother would take a knife to her child. When I looked at his penis, I was again instantly sorry that I had allowed it to be done. (13)

    Circumcision is a Women's Issue



    • The maternal instincts and experiences of women uniquely qualify them for the important responsibility of caring for infants and protecting them from pain and harm.


    • Research demonstrates that women are generally more sensitive than men to the needs and feelings of infants, and newborn infants recognize, prefer, and are more responsive to their mothers.1


    • Generally, because they are not themselves circumcised, females are not subject to the personal psychological motivations of circumcised men to perpetuate the practice (e.g., "I want him to look like me").2


    • According to a recent study, circumcision can adversely affect female sexual enjoyment.3


    • Any adverse psychological consequences of circumcision on males may adversely affect male-female relationships.4


    • Because of the prevalence of circumcision in the United States, some potential adverse psychological effects of circumcision on males (known/unknown) may have indirect adverse social effects on women.5


    • Mothers sign the majority of hospital circumcision consent forms.6



    From a side about Female Genital Mutilation comparing Africa with the USA: FGC Education and Networking Project

    Clitoridectomy and Infibulation in Africa Infant

    Male Circumcision in North America

    "She loses only a little piece of the clitoris, just the part that protrudes. The girl does not miss it. She can still feel, after all. There is hardly any pain. Women's pain thresholds are so much higher than men's."

    "It's only a little piece of skin. The baby does not feel any pain because his nervous system is not developed yet."

    "The parts that are cut away are disgusting and hideous to look at. It is done for the beauty of the suture."

    "An uncircumcised penis is a real turn-off. Its disgusting. It looks like the penis of an animal."

    "Female circumcision protects the health of a woman. Infibulation prevents the uterus from falling out [uterine prolapse]. It keeps her smelling so sweet that her husband will be pleased. If it is not done, she will stink and get worms in her vagina."

    "An uncircumcised penis causes urinary infections and penile cancer. It generates smegma and smegma stinks. A circumcised penis is more hygienic and oral sex with an uncircumcised penis is disgusting to women."

    "An uncircumcised vulva is unclean and only the lowest prostitute would leave her daughter uncircumcised. No man would dream of marrying an unclean woman. He would be laughed at by everyone."


    "An uncircumcised penis is dirty and only the lowest class of people with no concept of hygiene leave their boys uncircumcised."

    "Leaving a girl uncircumcised endangers both her husband and her baby. If the baby's head touches the uncut clitoris during birth, the baby will be born hydrocephalic [excess cranial fluid]. The milk of the mother will become poisonous. If a man's penis touches a woman's clitoris he will become impotent."

    "Men have an obligation to their wives to give up their foreskin. An uncircumcised penis will cause cervical cancer in women. It also spreads disease."

    "A circumcised woman is sexually more pleasing to her husband. The tighter she is sewn, the more pleasure he has."


    "Circumcised men make better lovers because they have more staying power than uncircumcised men."

    "All the women in the world are circumcised. It is something that must be done. If there is pain, then that is part of a woman's lot in life."

    "Men in all the 'civilized' world are circumcised."


    "Doctors do it, so it must be a good thing."


    "Doctors do it, so it must be a good thing."

    Sudanese grandmother: "In some countries they only cut out the clitoris, but here we do it properly. We scrape our girls clean. If it is properly done, nothing is left, other than a scar. Everything has to be cut away."

    My own father, a physician, speaking of ritual circumcision inflicted upon my son: "It is a good thing that I was here to preside. He had quite a long foreskin. I made sure that we gave him a good tight circumcision."

    35 year old Sudanese woman: "Yes, I have suffered from chronic pelvic infections and terrible pain for years now. You say that all if this is the result of my circumcision? But I was circumcised over 30 years ago! How can something that was done for me when I was four years old have anything to do with my health now?"

    35 years old American male: "I have lost nearly all interest in sex. You might say that I'm becoming impotent. I don't seem to have much sensation in my penis anymore, and it is becoming more and more difficult for me to reach orgasm. You say that this is the result of my circumcision? That doesn't make any sense. I was circumcised 35 years ago, when I was a little boy. How can that affect me in any way now?"


    From: The Daily Bruin - Cut circumcision out of the American culture

    Cut circumcision out of the American culture

    The United States has one of the highest rates of male circumcision in the world, and is the only country that practices infant circumcision for non-religious purposes even though the medical benefits are considered controversial.

    Since there is no medical benefit to male circumcision it is, blatantly, a form of genital mutilation (just as female circumcision or cutting is) and should be outlawed.

    Currently, female genital cutting is against federal law. The government has also taken the initiative to educate immigrants from countries where this practice occurs; administer outreach programs to affected communities in the United States, and requires that all directors of international financial institutions oppose loans to countries that practice female genital cutting. It is estimated that 130 million women have undergone female circumcision, and it affects another 2 million annually.
    There is no reason for the United States to take such a strong stance on female circumcision and the opposite stance on an analogous technique practiced on men.

    However, the situation is changing. A bill was proposed to the California legislature on February 28 of this year and if passed will make male circumcision illegal within the state of California.

    People downplay the similarities between male and female circumcision. Just as male circumcision is a part of both Muslim and Jewish religious beliefs, female (as well as male) circumcision is an integral part of the religious and cultural beliefs of certain tribes in Africa.

    And while many claim that female circumcision is more physiologically damaging, this depends on the type of circumcision. Some forms of male circumcision are actually more detrimental than certain methods of female circumcision (one involves slitting the urinary tube from the tip to the scrotum, which creates an opening that looks like a vagina).
    It would be hypocritical of the United States to take a stance on these atrocities until it rectifies its own practices of genital mutilation.
    Some people, notably many doctors, have taken a stance against male circumcision.

    The American Academy of Pediatrics released a statement in 1971 declaring “there are no valid medical indications for circumcision in the neonatal period.” They released a similar statement in 1999, and the rate of U.S. male circumcision has been in decline since.

    In fact, there is not a single national or international medical association that recommends routine male circumcision.

    There is even an organization, Doctors Opposing Circumcision, consisting of physicians from around the world, which alleges that routine neonatal male circumcision is painful, unnecessary and a violation of human rights.
    They claim it violates the first tenet of medical practice (do no harm) and all seven principles of the American Medical Association’s code of ethics. They plan to stop secular circumcision by refusing to perform it (non-secular circumcision is not usually performed by doctors). I think, this time, I will trust my doctor.

    Other countries have high rates of male circumcision. For example, in South Korea over 90 percent of high-school aged boys are circumcised. However, there is an important difference between South Korea and the United States – a survey of South Korean doctors showed that many still believed it was a medically beneficial procedure.

    In the past, medical experts in the United States have claimed many medical justifications for male circumcision, including a lower risk of urinary tract infections; infections under the foreskin, sexually transmitted infections, persistent tight foreskin, and penile, prostate and cervical cancers.

    However, there is no evidence that circumcision reduces the rate of cervical cancer in women or prostate cancer in men. And while circumcision can reduce the risk of penile cancer, so can a regular shower (my detailed questioning of uncircumcised males makes me confident that keeping the intact penis clean isn’t that difficult of a task).

    Cancer of the penis is also extremely rare, as are infections under the foreskin and persistent tight foreskin, which have all been given as medical bases for preventative circumcision.

    Besides, secular circumcision was never intended for hygienic purposes in the first place. During the latter part of the 19th century, when male circumcision began in England, it was performed to cure various diseases of the nervous system (not related to the penis) and to prevent chronic masturbation, which was thought to lead to diseases such as insanity, blindness and epilepsy.

    Only after the turn of the century, when it was discovered that masturbation caused none of these things, did the foreskin take the blame for the various diseases listed above.

    The only valid reason left for performing male circumcision, if it’s not required by your religion, is for cosmetic purposes. If we began performing routine breast implants on teenage girls, there would be an absolute uproar. And you could use the same argument – aside from a few mess-ups, it doesn’t cause any harm.

    So it’s all about physical appearance.

    And while I’ll be the first to admit that body image plays a large role in our society, when it comes to sex, as one girl put it, “I’ve never really noticed.” Many did not even know how to tell the difference. I delightedly enlightened quite a few with the aid of a Google image search.

    Those who had taken a notice to the physical aspects of their snake-like friends didn’t express any strong preference for one or the other. The most helpful response I got from the ladies was one girl that enthusiastically told me that, “uncircumcised penises are much more fun to play with.”

    But the point remains that the United States has no right to accuse some African tribes of violating human rights, when we ourselves are guilty of these charges.

    We cannot begin to fight genital mutilation in other parts of the world until we stop the practice on our own soil. Routine male circumcision is a violation of human rights and should, without a doubt, be made strictly illegal.

    If you want to get your penis reconstructed (yes, this is possible), e-mail Lara at lloewenstein@media.ucla.edu.


    From: Template
    GENITAL MUTILATION & THE UNITED NATIONS:
    MALE AND FEMALE CIRCUMCISION, HUMAN RIGHTS,
    &
    THE RESTORATION OF SPIRITUAL INTEGRITY & FREEDOM


    Anastasios Zavales

    Presented at the Fourth International Symposium on Sexual Mutilations,
    University of Lausanne, Lausanne, Switzerland, August 9-11, 1996.

    The world community is increasingly educated on crimes against humanity, in particular, about individuals practicing genital mutilation, commonly termed circumcision" Genital mutilation affects more than 2 million girl-child victims and more than 13.5 million boy-child victims annually throughout the world. Every two seconds, one child-victim endures genital destruction and sexual torture as cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment and punishment.

    The global proliferation of genital mutilation by circumcisers torturing child-victims incorporates atypical human rights violations: body-dysmorphic disorders, genital destruction, psycho-social impairment, and spiritual death. Universal human rights codes of ethics establish the working definitions, protocols, and provisos of recognizing all victims of genital intolerance and sexual discrimination by advocating grassroots justice. Human rights principles and corrective actions incriminate genital mutilators and their accomplices whose evils deny millions of children their reproductive rights to genital integrity and restitution, and sexual liberation.

    Through the systemic history of the United Nations, human rights precedents develop for identifying and reporting international violations of genital mutilation. The mutually-inclusive concepts of gender equality and gender equity categorically recognize the diverse UN "factors and difficulties" of abolishing circumcision. Human rights standards and practices register, as expressed through The Universal Declaration of Human Rights (1948) and subsequent UN texts and programs, the social benefits of eradicating all forms of genital mutilation: spiritual integrity and freedom; gender equality and equity; sexual integrity and mental health; economic and social development; educational and scientific rights; religious and cultural freedoms; and, mostly, children's rights.


    From NOHARMM Home Page

    M A L E

    F E M A L E
    Is the practice rooted in ancient blood ritual?

    Yes
    Yes

    Was it initially adopted to suppress or control sexuality?
    (
    Circumcision of U.S. males began when it was adopted from England
    in the late 1800s to "prevent" masturbation.)

    Yes
    Yes

    Did (Is) the practice become (becoming) "medicalized?"

    Yes
    Yes

    Do cultures use hygiene, medicine, religion or tradition to justify it?

    Yes
    Yes

    Is it done without anesthesia, and is it painful and traumatic to the child?

    Yes
    Yes

    Does it carry long-term physical, sexual, emotional or psychological effects?

    Yes
    Yes

    Does it diminish sexual sensitivity?
    Yes
    Yes

    Does it abuse or mutilate the child's body?

    Yes
    Yes

    Is it forced upon the child without his/her consent?

    Yes
    Yes
    Is it a violation of a person's fundamental human right to his/her own body?

    Yes
    Yes

    Do the victims learn to accept it as "normal" or defend the practice?

    Yes
    Yes

    DO AMERICANS WIDELY CONDEMN IT?
    YES
    NO

    WHY?

    F A C T S
    [for anatomical clarification and references, visit Question 8 of our FAQ]
    The prepuce (foreskin) is a natural protective covering for the glans (head) of the penis and is the most erogenous tissue of the penis, containing over 240 feet of nerves and over 1,000 nerve endings.
    Average adult foreskin consists of 1-1/2 inches of outer skin and 1-1/2 inches of inner mucosal lining and is 5 inches in circumference (erect). Infant circumcision ultimately destroys what would become 15 square inches of erogenous tissue, or approximately 50% of the adult penile shaft skin and its nervous system.
    The naturally adherent, non-retractile infant foreskin is torn from the glans before circumcision. We now know infants DO feel pain. They rarely receive anesthesia and/or post-operative pain management.
    85% of the world's males are intact with few foreskin problems. America is the only developed nation left in the world still circumcising most (60%) of its newborn males for non-religious reasons.
    Every day in the United States, over 3,300 baby boys are circumcised, more than 1.25 million infants annually, at an annual cost to parents and health insurers exceeding $200 million.
    American medicine has failed to prove unequivocally and conclusively that circumcision carries any significant medical advantage over the intact state for the majority of males or their partners. It has also never researched the long-term physical, sexual, emotional or psychological consequences to men of infant circumcision.
    Long-term harm includes: skin tags, skin bridges, prominent scars, tight/painful erections, bleeding during sex, bowing/curvature, loss of sensitivity, excessive/painful stimulation needed to orgasm, sexual dysfunction, anger, resentment, feelings of parental betrayal, mutilation/human rights violated, not feeling whole or natural, inferiority to intact males, low self-esteem, addictions or dependencies, etc.



    Isn't NOHARMM’s terminology a little harsh (genital cutting, mutilation, intact, etc.)?
    Much of the language our culture uses to describe this practice is cloaked in euphemisms. It’s a "benign" procedure; it's offered as a "service" to parents; it only involves "a little snip" of "extra skin" that "doesn’t hurt" and "isn’t remembered"; and it has "no effect" on a male’s life. An intellectually honest discussion of this issue acknowledges anatomical reality, recognizes that infant circumcision offers no significant compensating benefits for the loss of the functional prepuce, and validates the experiences of children, as well as the damage endured by the men they become.
    "Circumcision" is a euphemism that often betrays the reality of its effects. In societies that impose it on boys and girls, however, "circumcision" is commonly used in the vernacular of that culture. Women and men living in circumcising cultures refer to themselves as "circumcised," not "mutilated." While "mutilation" is the technically correct term used outside the circumcising culture, it creates resistance within the culture to the change proposed by abolitionists. "Genital cutting" is a reasonable term that does not hide behind euphemisms, yet is still technically correct and keeps the channels of dialogue open.
    Men and women who are not circumcised are intact - not "uncircumcised." "Uncircumcised" suggests that they should be circumcised. Do we call those who have not been subjected to tonsillectomy, appendectomy, mastectomy or sterilization: "untonsillectomized," "unappendectomized," "unmastectomized" or "unsterilized" ? The opposite of intact is non-intact. Increasingly, men who are regaining their genital integrity through foreskin restoration are referring to themselves as "uncircumcised" to indicate that they are reversing the negative effects of circumcision.


    What do you mean the U.S. is the "largest offender"?
    Over 75% of the world’s males are genitally intact. infant circumcision rates in other medically advanced nations are: Canada (<20%), Australia (<10%), Britain and the rest of Europe, Central/South America and Asia (<1%). The U.S. is the last developed nation in the world to circumcise the majority of its newborn males for non-religious, non-medical reasons. The U.S. national average rate of newborn circumcision is 60%. That’s more than 1.25 million babies subjected each year to genital cutting; over 3,300 children per day; one baby every 26 seconds. According to the National Center for Health Statistics (1994), the rate is lowest in the Western U.S. (<34%) and highest in the Midwest (>80%, with some hospitals exceeding 95%).

    Circumcision is thousands of years old and hasn’t seemed to have harmed people like the Jews and Moslems. Are you saying they’re damaged?
    All individuals, regardless of gender, race or religion, who have had genital cutting imposed upon them as unconsenting children bear various degrees of physical, sexual or psychological wounding. In the movement to protect male children from this, there are many Jews, Moslems, Africans and others from circumcising cultures who can attest to the harm this practice has inflicted on them. Strong family, religious, and cultural influences have, until recently, reinforced denial of these consequences and made it taboo for men to talk openly about their harm. Consequently, the long-term consequences to men of infant circumcision have never been scientifically studied. The human ability to adapt to and cope with this wounding or to remain silent under these pressures varies among individuals, but does not justify the wounding.
    Circumcision is like immunization, isn't it?
    No. Immunization involves injections. Circumcision is surgery, which results in the permanent loss of a healthy, functional body part and has long-term physical, sexual and psychological consequences that have yet to be studied. Unlike immunization, which affects children of both genders, circumcision usually targets one gender and is rooted in cultural custom, religion and social myths. With the exception of some African cultures, where both boys and girls are circumcised, the custom of circumcision is imposed only on male children, as in the United States. Many medical associations recommend immunization, but no national medical association in the world recommends infant circumcision.
    Don't most people prefer circumcised partners?
    Infant circumcision is not a question of what "most people" prefer, since they are not the ones having their sexual organs cut. Altering, or promoting the alteration of, someone else's body without their consent simply to suit another person's sexual preferences is not only incredibly selfish, it's technically criminal assault.
    Childbirth is painful, why can't men take a little pain from circumcision?
    This is not a valid comparison, for numerous reasons. Birth is essential to life, circumcision is not. While birth is an unavoidable natural physiological process, circumcision is an avoidable man-made custom. For women, the question of giving birth, or not, is a conscious choice, while children have no choice in being circumcised. Also, a baby's experience of pain during birth is not a valid excuse for subjecting him to more pain from circumcision. While adult women prepare for and transcend the pain of birth, science has learned that trauma and pain to babies have negative lifelong consequences, which is why it should be minimized. Clearly, the pain of being born does not discriminate on the basis of gender, but in our culture, only boys are subjected to the pain of circumcision. Finally, this is not an issue of circumcising men. We are subjecting innocent babies to painful genital alteration.
    Isn't losing a foreskin pretty trivial compared to what they do to girls in Africa?
    Genital mutilation is not an issue of severity, it’s one of sovereignty. If eradication of FGM were based solely on the notion that it harms health, one would expect women’s leaders to support a reduced form of cutting, comparable to male foreskin amputation, under hygienic and anesthetized medical conditions. That they are virtually unanimous in their opposition to even a "nicking" of the female foreskin indicates that the issue goes beyond severity and is one of sovereignty. Genital cutting of healthy unconsenting individuals fundamentally violates individual autonomy. In both forms of circumcision, adults usurp the child's right of choice before the child has any knowledge or ability to exercise sovereignty over her/his reproductive organs.
    Those who dismiss the importance of the prepuce (foreskin) are unaware that male and female genitals evolve from the same embryologic tissue and share more anatomical similarities than differences. The prepuce is the most densely nerve-laden part of the penis with specialized anatomical structure and functions that serve a male throughout his life. The prepuce, while small in a baby, accounts for about 50% of an adult male’s penile skin, approximately 15 square inches oferogenous tissue.
    Although male genital cutting often exists in areas without female genital cutting, we know that wherever female genitals are cut, male children are also genitally cut. It’s perverse to excuse one cruelty by invoking a worse one. The genitals of both sexes should be left intact without encouraging a "dreadfulness competition" between assaults on little girls or boys.
    Aren’t you trying to piggyback on the FGC issue?
    Not at all. Cutting the genitals of males and females is imposed almost exclusively on defenseless children. Cultural and gender influences that surround genital cutting may differ, yet the undeniablecommon denominators make this a question of principle when the bodies and rights of children are being violated, regardless of whether the victim is a boy or a girl. There are many similarities in attitudes held by those in circumcising cultures. Circumcision advocates resort to trivialization of these customs and irrational defenses. Many women who oppose cutting the genitals of girls understand how cutting boys’genitals is a feminist issue. Circumcision of boys has also been addressed by feminists in the media.

    What have FGC opponents stated publicly about male genital cutting?
    Shamis Dirir(Coordinator, London Black Women’s Health Action Project, interviewed in NOHARMM Health & Human Rights Advocate/July, 1997 - full interview)
    "…(B)oth male and female circumcisions raise the same human rights questions. Our mutual fight is against ignorance. People like us, those who have the pain, are the best fighters, because we know the pain of circumcision. What happened to you, you can’t change it, but you can help to stop it from happening to other children."
    Fran Hosken (Founder, Women’s International Network, quoted in Circumcision: Medical or Human Rights Issue? in Journal of Nurse-Midwifery, 37 (March/April 1992) pp. 87S-96S:
    "Human rights are indivisible, they apply to every society and culture and every continent. We cannot differentiate between black and white, rich and poor, or between male and female, if the concept of human rights is to mean anything at all."
    Hanny Lightfoot-Klein (Author, Prisoners of Ritual: An Odyssey into Female Genital Circumcision in Africa) on p.193 of her book: [ order ]
    "The reasons given for female circumcision in Africa and for routine male circumcision in the U.S. are essentially the same. Both falsely tout the positive health benefits of the procedures. Both promise cleanliness and the absence of "bad" genital odors, as well as greater attractiveness and acceptability of the sex organs. The affected individuals in both cultures have come to view these procedures as something that was done for them and not to them."
    [She has also stated to NOHARMM that "Childhood genital mutilations are anachronistic rituals inflicted on the helpless bodies of non-consenting children of both sexes."]
    Soraya Mire (Somalifilmmaker, Fire Eyes) in her endorsement of the video Whose Body, Whose Rights?
    "The painful cries of little boys being circumcised remind me of my own painful experience of female genital mutilation. It is the norm in my culture to mutilate girls, as it is in the U.S. for boys. It really terrifies me to know this. Hopefully this film will educate Americans about the harmful effects of male genital mutilation."
    Gloria Steinem (Introductory remarks to panel discussion of FGM, part of the "About Women" series held by the 92nd Street Young Women & Men’s Hebrew Association, New York City, 6 October 1997)
    "I would like to remind us that we all share patriarchy, which is the pillar of almost every current political system, capitalist or socialist. And it has a rock bottom requirement, the control of women’s bodies as the most basic means of production, the means of reproduction. This control is used to determine how many workers a family, group or nation has and who owns children… These patriarchal controls limit men’s sexuality too, but to a much, much lesser degree. That’s why men are asked symbolically to submit the sexual part of themselves and their sons to patriarchal authority, which seems to be the origin of male circumcision, a practice that, even as advocates admit, is medically unnecessary 90% of the time. Speaking for myself, I stand with many brothers in eliminating that practice too."
    "...Yes, there is a difference in degree that we experience in our different patriarchal cultures, and also in suffering, but not in the kind of social control and not in its purpose."
    "...There is even a similar religious justification for this control in all of our countries."
    "...Let us together see what we can do to preserve the wholeness of our bodies, and our minds, and our emotions."
    Nahid Toubia, M.D. (Sudanese physician, in FGM and Responsibility of Reproductive Health Professionals - Int’l Journal Gynecology & Obstetrics, 46 (1994) pp. 127-135:
    "The unnecessary removal of a functioning body organ in the name of tradition, custom or any other non-disease related cause should never be acceptable to the health profession. All childhood circumcisions are violations of human rights and a breach of the fundamental code of medical ethics. It is the moral duty of educated professionals to protect the health and rights of those with little or no social power to protect themselves." Additional Toubia excerpts relevant to male genital mutilation.

    Alice Walker (Author, Possessing the Secret of Joy, and filmmaker, Warrior Marks) on "Talk of the Nation" National Public Radio, 11/9/93:
    "I think it (male circumcision) is a mutilation. In working with FGM we often find that the battle is such an uphill one that we hope that the men who are working on this issue of male circumcision will carry that." And latter in the interview: "In all of it we have to try to think about what is being done from the point of view of the person to whom it is happening, namely the children."
    If circumcision is so bad, why don't men speak out about it?
    They do! Under current cultural conditions, however, most non-intact men still remain ignorant about the important functions of the prepuce and are enculturated to believe that circumcision is beneficial. Many don’t yet know how to identify their harm, while others believe that such effects are "normal" or a "birth defect". Still others deny that they were harmed at all. Until now, many non-intact men who were aware of being harmed felt that no recourse was available to them, or were embarrassed or feared ridicule.
    Things are changing. Read the Synopsis of Awakenings, our preliminary poll of over 600 circumcised men about the physical, sexual and psychological consequences of this genital alteration they did not choose.
    What about parental rights and peoples’ religious freedoms?
    Some people claim parents have to make a lot of difficult decisions that are painful or that children may not like, such as making kids eat vegetables, limiting TV habits, what school to go to, immunizations, etc. None of these can be compared to permanent surgical alteration of a child’s genitals. Every individual is born with inherent human rights to physical integrity and self-determination, as well as other rights outlined in numerous human rights treaties signed by almost every nation in the world. Rights and freedoms of one individual are protected only insofar as they do not harm or infringe on the rights of another, including our own children. ["In the exercise of his rights and freedoms, everyone shall be subject only to such limitations as are determined by law solely for the purpose of securing due recognition and respect for the rights and freedoms of others..." Article 29.3 - Universal Declaration of Human Rights]
    When the genital cutting is done in the name of religion, it is the parent's religion which motivates the procedure and not the religion of the person whose genitals are being surgically altered. Children bear their own right to freedom of religion, independent of the wishes of their parents or guardians. Children subjected to mutilation or scarification as a religious marker have not asked for or consented to the procedure. A parent's consent is therefore clearly insufficient. Moreover, it is precisely in the interest of preserving freedom of religion that ritual infant or childhood genital mutilations of either gender should not be performed.
    For a further overview, we suggest you read some of the articles under the Legal, Constitutional and Human Rights Library of our Litigation Program, beginning with Ted Pong’s concise essay, Circumcision: A Critical Issue of Human Rights.

    Why does circumcision persist in the U.S.?
    Genital cutting of male children in the U.S. persists because it’s a social custom. The custom is reinforced by medical myths based on junk science; widespread sexual ignorance, silently complicit circumcised men; disempowered mothers; the financial motivations of doctors, hospitals, and health insurers; the refusal of government officialsto act on behalf of children for fear of offending parents and religious minorities; and a power structure populated by men and women with irrational attachments to the practice of circumcision. For a deeper look at these factors, read the excerpts from Easy Questions/Hard Answers: Circumcision in American Society in Ann Briggs’ book, "Circumcision: What Every Parent Should Know."
    Who supports circumcision?
    It’s rare for intact men or women to support the removal of healthy functioning sexual tissue from an unconsenting child. Those who do usually have something to gain from it (e.g., respect for "upholding" tradition, support for "political correctness/culturally sensitivity," justification for what was done to them or what they did to their children, support for what they personally find sexually attractive, or, in the case of doctors and religious circumcisers, financial gain). The most ardent supporters of genital mutilation are men and women who are circumcised, trapped in a cycle of abuse handed down to them, which they perpetuate onto their children. In cultures that circumcise females, the males are also circumcised. The blindness of these men to their own mutilation can be an impediment to having any compassion for the mutilation of their daughters. Not all circumcised men and women, however, support genital cutting customs. Increasing numbers of non-intact men and women are learning the functions of natural male/female genitals and how their human rights were violated. We are speaking out!


    German Sources:
    Beschneidung
    Mnnliche Genitalverstmmelung
    The men's and fathers' movement needs to make sure it never sees females as the enemy,
    but only misandry--whether from females or from males.
    If not, we'll become like the bigoted feminists that this movement was formed to oppose.
    Glenn Sacks
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    re: Circumcision galore

    Don't forget too, Oprah spent vast resources condemning FGM - and then promptly began promoting a face cream for women... made from chopped off foreskins from unwilling victims.
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    Husband : "How about the ones like mine?"
    Wife : "Those they gave away."
    Husband : "I had a dream too...I dreamt they were auctioning off pussy. The pretty ones went for a thousand dollars, and the little tight ones went for two thousand."
    Wife : "And how much for the ones like mine?"
    Husband : "That's where they held the auction."

  4. #3
    Feckless's Avatar
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    re: Circumcision galore

    Yeah...that was weird...
    The men's and fathers' movement needs to make sure it never sees females as the enemy,
    but only misandry--whether from females or from males.
    If not, we'll become like the bigoted feminists that this movement was formed to oppose.
    Glenn Sacks
    Disclaimer:
    http://antimisandry.com/109272-post69.html

    Blog:
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    Fecks Warcraft File:

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    re: Circumcision galore

    Circumcision: Refers to the surgical procedure that removes foreskin from the penis

    Circumcism: Like racism or sexism, a belief system that justifies and perpetuates violence against newborn males


    Feckless! You have expanded the language, and all in the name of men's rights. Good job -- and also serious thanks for the arduous work you did on the article's translation.

  6. #5
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    re: Circumcision galore

    Holy mother....my translation site was correcting me all day to use cision instead. Awesome typo!

    Horrible the describtions of circumciSIONS there are....what do you think?
    The men's and fathers' movement needs to make sure it never sees females as the enemy,
    but only misandry--whether from females or from males.
    If not, we'll become like the bigoted feminists that this movement was formed to oppose.
    Glenn Sacks
    Disclaimer:
    http://antimisandry.com/109272-post69.html

    Blog:
    http://feck-blog.blogspot.com/

    Fecks Warcraft File:

    http://antimisandry.com/chit-chat-ma...ile-16039.html

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    re: Circumcision galore

    I like it!! LOL

    Just for the record, ism pronounces exactly as is spelled while 'ision' pronounces as 'shun'.
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    The most offensive thing you can do to a feminist is treat her with FULL equality.
    Wife : "I dreamt they were auctioning off dicks. The big ones went for ten dollars and the thick ones went for twenty dollars."
    Husband : "How about the ones like mine?"
    Wife : "Those they gave away."
    Husband : "I had a dream too...I dreamt they were auctioning off pussy. The pretty ones went for a thousand dollars, and the little tight ones went for two thousand."
    Wife : "And how much for the ones like mine?"
    Husband : "That's where they held the auction."

  8. #7
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    re: Circumcision galore

    I don´t know why I have a tendency to confuse those English words that sound (are written) similar - think thing - than then - know now - there their. Are you people never confused about what I write? Especially then and than I am using completely random, I will never ever understand when to use what.
    The men's and fathers' movement needs to make sure it never sees females as the enemy,
    but only misandry--whether from females or from males.
    If not, we'll become like the bigoted feminists that this movement was formed to oppose.
    Glenn Sacks
    Disclaimer:
    http://antimisandry.com/109272-post69.html

    Blog:
    http://feck-blog.blogspot.com/

    Fecks Warcraft File:

    http://antimisandry.com/chit-chat-ma...ile-16039.html

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  9. #8
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    re: Circumcision galore

    Anyone who uses that "childbirth is painful, so men should have to go through some pain" crap is a fucking idiot! That pisses me off so much that some bitch would use childbirth as a reason a little boy should have part of his penis cut off. Last time I checked, childbirth was a fucking choice! Women do not have to go through that if they don't want to. Childbirth is not a good excuse for little boys to get mutilated.

  10. #9
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    re: Circumcision galore

    My boy is not circumcised.

    Only once has the subject ever came up between us. When he was still a young teenager, he mentioned to me that he wished I would have had it done when he was a baby, because he feels "different" than the other boys. I suppose in America, where circumcision is practiced so widely, it really can make a guy feel like the odd man out when he's not circumcised.

    He's quite a bit older now, and sometimes I wonder what he thinks about this today. Does he still feel the same way he did back then? I'm afraid to ask him.

    I hope I made the right choice.

    "Civilization can only revive when there shall come into being in a number of individuals a new tone of mind, independent of the prevalent one among the crowds, and in opposition to it- a tone of mind which will gradually win influence over the collective one, and in the end determine its character. Only an ethical movement can rescue us from barbarism, and the ethical comes into existence only in individuals."

    "Until he extends his circle of compassion to include all living things, man will not himself find peace."
    -Albert Schweitzer

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    re: Circumcision galore

    By all accounts - it shouldn't be a choice (for boys or girls). This is unnatural.
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    The most offensive thing you can do to a feminist is treat her with FULL equality.
    Wife : "I dreamt they were auctioning off dicks. The big ones went for ten dollars and the thick ones went for twenty dollars."
    Husband : "How about the ones like mine?"
    Wife : "Those they gave away."
    Husband : "I had a dream too...I dreamt they were auctioning off pussy. The pretty ones went for a thousand dollars, and the little tight ones went for two thousand."
    Wife : "And how much for the ones like mine?"
    Husband : "That's where they held the auction."

  12. #11
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    re: Circumcision galore

    Marx,

    I agree. I don't know how it is in other countries, but in the US, the majority of men are circumcised. And of these, most had it done right after they were born. Parents here are faced with this decision, and it is hard....because one has to consider the psychological impact on the boy if he does not have it done. Would you like to be the only one in a locker room full of boys that has an uncircumcised penis? Can you imagine how that would feel?

    It wasn't an easy decision to make. Call me weak, but I just couldn't allow it to be done to my boy. The thought of the pain, the harm, was too much to bear.

    "Civilization can only revive when there shall come into being in a number of individuals a new tone of mind, independent of the prevalent one among the crowds, and in opposition to it- a tone of mind which will gradually win influence over the collective one, and in the end determine its character. Only an ethical movement can rescue us from barbarism, and the ethical comes into existence only in individuals."

    "Until he extends his circle of compassion to include all living things, man will not himself find peace."
    -Albert Schweitzer

  13. #12
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    re: Circumcision galore

    As more parents stand up to their own fears and disassociation with the penis' foreskin, in conjunction with MRA's protesting & raising awareness - it will become more, and more commonplace in USA. In England it is only a select few.

    Now, being a guy - I can recall an occasion where something like this did occur...

    For one, the vast majority of boys do not look at other boys todgers while in the shower rooms. We just don't. We're not interested for the most part, though on occasion you may catch a quick glance as you're on the floor picking something up and another passes you by... but even then, 99% will have a towel around them at that point.

    I recall this one lad was circumcised - and wasn't bothered by it at all. I remember noting it was different, asking him why, and being amazed that he'd let someone chop it off. He explained it was done due to an accident involving his fly/zipper.

    My best friend is circumcised too - not that I can confirm that, I'll happily take his word for it. It means nothing to me. Oddly, he was circumcised for the same reason - an accident.

    Now, when I went to USA - my so-called brother in-laws were obviously cut. We were talking about it, and they were really quite aggressive about how superior it is... *as if* they had experienced a sex-life with a foreskin in order to compare. That wasn't the case, as they'd been snipped at a young age.

    The only point I'm making in this, is the limited conversations I had in USA showed an apparent disdain for uncut chaps. Whereas in England, we're quite open to both cut & uncut chaps. As I noted though, this observation is based on a very small sample of individuals. But it does correlate with other people I've discussed it with who have, as you yourself have, pointed out the "but in the changing rooms.... they'll all mock him for being different" attitude.
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    The most offensive thing you can do to a feminist is treat her with FULL equality.
    Wife : "I dreamt they were auctioning off dicks. The big ones went for ten dollars and the thick ones went for twenty dollars."
    Husband : "How about the ones like mine?"
    Wife : "Those they gave away."
    Husband : "I had a dream too...I dreamt they were auctioning off pussy. The pretty ones went for a thousand dollars, and the little tight ones went for two thousand."
    Wife : "And how much for the ones like mine?"
    Husband : "That's where they held the auction."

  14. #13
    Incognito's Avatar
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    re: Circumcision galore

    Well all I know is that it must have been weighing at least a little bit heavily on his mind at 13 to bring this subject up with me. It's not every day a 13 year old is willing to talk about his penis to his mother. So...something was going on with him...psychologically. And for that, I feel tremendous guilt.

    You're right, there is sort of a "disdain" Americans have for the uncut penis. I think it's only because it's a sight not usually seen. It's different. That and Americans have a tendency to be egocentric anyway.

    "Civilization can only revive when there shall come into being in a number of individuals a new tone of mind, independent of the prevalent one among the crowds, and in opposition to it- a tone of mind which will gradually win influence over the collective one, and in the end determine its character. Only an ethical movement can rescue us from barbarism, and the ethical comes into existence only in individuals."

    "Until he extends his circle of compassion to include all living things, man will not himself find peace."
    -Albert Schweitzer

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    re: Circumcision galore

    To be honest, and I'm sure many cut chaps feel the same about their version... I wouldn't change mine for anything!! I love that lil' flappy bit. Oooh the fun you can have with it! It stretchs for miles...and miles...and miles... and miles... well, ok, some mild exaggeration there - but it is jolly good fun! It' slike having an additional toy to play with on top of everything else - the cherry on the cake, so to speak!
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    The most offensive thing you can do to a feminist is treat her with FULL equality.
    Wife : "I dreamt they were auctioning off dicks. The big ones went for ten dollars and the thick ones went for twenty dollars."
    Husband : "How about the ones like mine?"
    Wife : "Those they gave away."
    Husband : "I had a dream too...I dreamt they were auctioning off pussy. The pretty ones went for a thousand dollars, and the little tight ones went for two thousand."
    Wife : "And how much for the ones like mine?"
    Husband : "That's where they held the auction."

  16. #15
    Incognito's Avatar
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    re: Circumcision galore

    That was way too much information...lol!

    "Civilization can only revive when there shall come into being in a number of individuals a new tone of mind, independent of the prevalent one among the crowds, and in opposition to it- a tone of mind which will gradually win influence over the collective one, and in the end determine its character. Only an ethical movement can rescue us from barbarism, and the ethical comes into existence only in individuals."

    "Until he extends his circle of compassion to include all living things, man will not himself find peace."
    -Albert Schweitzer


 

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