I've been really wondering about this lately. I wonder if women have the capacity to love as deeply and completely as men. I've spent a lot of time talking to men online, trying to understand what emotions are to them, (talking with members of MRM boards, people! Get your minds out of the gutter!) What has come out to me clearly is that men have this capacity to love that truly amazes me. It seems to me that men love profoundly and completely. It becomes a part of their being.

I haven't talked to many women about how women love. I only know that I, personally, don't love that completely. And I really want to know - is that a woman thing, or a Kelly thing? I know at least part of it is a Kelly thing. I have real trouble attaching to anyone or anything. I love my husband and my children, and if I lost them, I would mourn. I would be sad. But I would go on, much the same as I always have. I'm sure it has to do with the way I was raised, and I know it will come out - soon - in therapy. But even after I heal that part of my soul, what will it be like then?

I know there are only a few women on this board, and I'm contemplating posting this on my blog to open up the field for responses, but Annette? Myce? Can you help me out here? How does a woman love?

P.S.

I know this isn't really about men's health, but this stupid misogynist board doesn't have a section for women's health!

Women appear to me, after 6 decades and more, to be vastly more volatile. I think they do, just as men do, love deeply, but it can quickly change to hatred. It's like flipping a switch.

Most of the men I have met in my life who have had a divorce thrust upon them have gone into a deep and abiding depression, not so much because they are alone, but becaise of the betrayal, the rejection, the abandonment by the one person who was their 'best friend', the one person to whom they opened their soul.

Men get angry, but that is a far cry from the hatred women show. Men control their anger - society punishes them otherwise - but women are encouraged to act on their hatred.

Women seem to hate with ease. Without conscience. I have seen many women 'mourn' after a divorce that they have caused. It is a falsity. It isn't authentic or genuine. It is to gain sympathy and unearned benefits. They bemoan the man's 'faults'. They justify themselves continually. The man who was 'the one' for them becomes the worst person since Hitler.

Women seem to be able to ignore the pain of others, even their children. They throw themselves into turning their children into hate-machines too, getting them to pour even more pain onto their father. In all my years I have never seen a man teach his children to hate their mother with the passion that women dedicate. a passion that becomes clear after five minutes in the family court.

Yes, that's what makes them so qualified for being a nurse.

I've always felt like that men love much more deeply than women, especially when it comes to the opposite sex.

It was obvious to me when my Mother tried to kill me "for all mens sake" because the feminist articles she read regularly got her worked up into a hissy. This is the woman who claimed I was her favorite, her one and only son. It really did severe the bond between a Mother and her son.

My wife complains that her Mother has changed and has little to do with any of her children anymore.

KellyMac,
I am capable of very deep and intense emotions, and in fact my feelings have been so overwhelming that I thought I was mentally ill. Like Percy said, my feelings were too volatile and I was full of hatred that was like some caustic substance eating me from the inside. However I would rather brood over how much I hate everyone, obsess about death and/or cut on myself rather than hate some man for no good reason.

God, I hope I can love as deeply as I can hate.

Lately my emotions have nearly flat-lined compared to what they used to be. The calm coincides with my child coming into the world. She has given purpose to our lives (my husband and I) and we are a happy family. I know that doesn't say much about the depth of my feelings now, but I just can't say much more.

I think women are just as capable of deep love but as has already been said their emotions are too erratic. I know with my my childrens moms we had good relationships until the children were born and as I love being a father I was very involved with their upbringing I fed them and bathed them and yes I changed diapers. I think the bond I formed with my children by doing these things drove them crazy. Because they turned on me and when I would try to have bonding time with my sons they would get so damned mad at me. Jealousy of my bond was the only reason I can think of for that type of behavior. So while they loved me deeply before the children petty jealousy drove us apart.

I cannot believe how accurate Percy's response is when I put his words against my recent history with my wife.
It's just ... amazing.
I still love her; despite having had her mentally torture me on her 'Mother's' command, despite seeing her turn a deaf ear as her 'mother' accused her father of abusing the children to my step-son's therapists, despite her turning a blind eye as her 'mother' took weapons to my step-son, despite seeing the hateful lies she spoke of me to her family, her friends, and even an online community - all just to save her 'family' from looking bad for their evil actions.
I don't understand - still - how a mother can put the reputation of an authoritarian woman who refuses to acknowledge personal boundaries over the wellbeing of her husband...and considerably more importantly, over her children. It just baffles me.
I fell out with my best friend of that time, because he manhandled my daughter. He didn't beat her, he didn't use weapons, he didn't even shout at her... in fact, we (my ex g/f and I) didn't even see what happened. What we know is that one minute she was playing joyfully, he went in the living room, and she was silent - shocked - wide-eyed, and trying not to cry. That was enough.
I told him straight - you do not touch my daughter, if you get upset with her, you come to me or her mom... that was the end of our friendship for a while, but his friendship comes secondary to my children's wellbeing - there is no contest.

A while later, this guy had major issues happening in his life (they already were, but I wasn't fully aware of them) and once this was out of the way for him, he called up and asked my ex & myself to go around to his home. He was in hospital, and his wife was tired of being at his side day in day out. Despite our fallout, I offered (I think she was hinting anyway) to go and sit with him for a while so she could get some rest. She put forward that we were no longer friends, and in response I explained that was unimportant when a person's life is hanging on a thread... I think perhaps this proved to him and her, that I had more morals than they had realised. So, upon his invitation we went to their home. He apologised. As he did so, he literally burst into tears and threw his arms around me - which for him, was a shocking turn of events for me to behold.

We moved on. The point being though, neither my ex nor I saw him physically touch our daughter - we went on speculation based on what we could piece together in the few moments between her bouncing around happily and being somehow suddenly silenced.

It's not right to speak ill of the dead, but I got knocked around my fair share as a kid, and as an adult - I despise seeing full grown adults abusing their advantageous height, weight, strength and other elements to knock kids around. Yet, somehow, some people can just lie to themselves, and marginalize the abuses they've just witnessed directly in front of their own eyes. It turns my stomach.

Having demonstrated beyond deniability, how much men are involved emotionally with their wives and children, just imagine what those Fathers are going through when the Family Court tells them they can no longer see their own children..

Should explain the suicide rate, here in Australia it's around 5 men per day.

May just as well rip their heart out, it would be less painful.

It's a good question Kelly. The traditional answer was No, women have shallower emotions, or just 'fake' deepness. I've never married or lived with a girlfriend, I don't really know.

You might want to check out Misogyny Unlimited. They have some anti-feminist material that could address your point. In particular check out Rich Zubaty, a man who loves women but finds them disappointing.

http://www.theabsolute.net/misogyny/

Also the Men's Tribune refers to some traditional writers on the subject.

http://members.garbersoft.net/spartacus/home.htm

This is one area I haven't delved into much....but thinking on it, I do think men love much more deeply, and more completely. Its one reason why I tend to be maternal with my close male friends...it stems from a desire to avoid seeing them get hurt by women...because I know that women can lash out in hate and rage, seemingly with no conscience about it.

I wonder if women have always been this way, or is this s consequence of feminist training? Because if its always been this way, does estrogen have anything to do with it?

Just my 2 penn'orth but I'd say it all depends on the social conditions that prevail and what's expected of men and women.

I'd agree with Percy that women are volatile. So situations where that volatility can be defused rather fed and sensationalised will enable them to grow. IMHO they begin as lovers of themselves, but they can learn how to extend that love to children, family and (God forbid) even husbands. When they reach that stage the benefits finally become obvious. As they age they have acquired some respect for their contribution that compensates for their loss of sexual power.

Men begin as lovers of freedom. Their stake in society is minimal. They can 'drop out' completely (criminal/monk/tramp/hobo) or just sell their labour and loyalty to the nearest overlord and get by without compromising their essential freedom. But if the price is right, they too can learn to care for others, especially offspring that carry their genes. The women that enable this process get an automatic share of his obligations, whether they deserve it or not. As the men age they gain some respect for their contribution that compensates for the loss of their freedom.

I merely speculate that it's 'supposed' to work that way. Both have to make a sacrifice in order to reap later benefits. And those benefits can only be realised if society prospers.

It's a delicate balance. In simple societies tipping the balance is frowned upon and quickly leads to social exclusion. In complex cultures a great deal of imbalance can happen before social forces (i.e. the sum total of John & Jane Doe's needs and desires) start to correct the imbalance.

As if that's not all, more stable and vigorous tribes, with a full complement of 'love' for themselves and their own, are watching and waiting for an opportunity to steal resources from the weaker ones.

The 'capacity to love' is neither here nor there. Most human beings have the capacity just as we have a capacity to learn to speak. It's hard-wired into our brains but it's a primitive instinct.

The power of love is the equal of the power of hate. They can go either way.
If those highly-civilized men and women were really as smart as they think they are , there wouldn't be a problem. We'd just sit down quietly and discuss the details of a mutual 'win-win' situation - as simpler cultures do.

Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth.