If I knew he was innocent, hopefully I could prove it and wouldn't need to lie.

However I would consider lying, in the right circumstance for the right person. However most of the time, police don't investigate and you wouldn't know if your friend was bundled away, one day they would just be gone.

Freedom is slavery, touche Orwell!

Quote from wh666

Freedom is slavery, touche Orwell!

Open question: is there a difference?

what I have tried to do for quite some time - implore young men to forsake his romantic notions of wimyn and definitely sign no contract with any wimyn ; and, save the fruits of his labour for himself for celebrating his short life without having rapacious attorneys pursuing him on behalf of his ex wife for back payments for child maintenance and alimony or any other new age feminit sucker dues created to bedevil him by the new age gynocracy

Quote from wh666

If I knew he was innocent, hopefully I could prove it and wouldn't need to lie.

However I would consider lying, in the right circumstance for the right person. However most of the time, police don't investigate and you wouldn't know if your friend was bundled away, one day they would just be gone.

Freedom is slavery, touche Orwell!

Given all options to help with goodness, I would exhaust those. However, like you, I know that good does not always prevail. The only difference is that I would account all innocent Men, the right person and I would do more than consider.

Of course wisdom dictates that such an exacting circumstance will likely never arise. Would I know exactly the right lie to save a Man? Would the lie get him in more trouble, and not just me, if it were found out? All of these are considerations as I would not want to make his situation worse.

However, this is an exercise in thought and potential, stepping outside of what we would normally say. I've seen Men in this movement insist they would never lie to save an innocent Man, that they would never lie. To that I say, that is a lie, that they have lied. Who has never ever lied? Most lies are for our own convenience. So why not, as you said, consider lying for the right person and circumstance? I hold you in high regard for your willingness Brother.

Quote from FloatyBoaty

Open question: is there a difference?

The illusion is that we are free. And the illusion is that we are slaves.

All are simply a matter of context.

Quote from shaazam

what I have tried to do for quite some time - implore young men to forsake his romantic notions of wimyn and definitely sign no contract with any wimyn ; and, save the fruits of his labour for himself for celebrating his short life without having rapacious attorneys pursuing him on behalf of his ex wife for back payments for child maintenance and alimony or any other new age feminit sucker dues created to bedevil him by the new age gynocracy

All very good advice, but as we have learned, it is not always enough to protect an innocent Man to avoid women. Taxi Drivers have been accused of rape because the woman did not wish to pay the fair, strangers walking the street have been accused of rape because three young college students missed class. and children as young as 11 have been made to pay child support to their rapists.

That being said it can reduce his danger.

The truth is, there is no truth.. And when it comes to law, this certainly applies.. It is all a game, and in the rules of every game, there is the freedom to play to the rules and the truth means little.. The law has never been about establishing the truth.. It has always been about winning an argument..

Quote from shaazam

what I have tried to do for quite some time - implore young men to forsake his romantic notions of wimyn and definitely sign no contract with any wimyn

I have considered drawing up my own contract with women. I need legal advice though to know if it would stand up though, so if anyone is a lawyer, feel free to let me know.

I'd like to think I wouldn't lie for anyone. It seems like if someone were innocent, you wouldn't need to lie. It's another one of those cases where you really don't know until you're in it.

Quote from KellyMac

I'd like to think I wouldn't lie for anyone.

Have you never lied? What reasons have you chosen to lie?

Quote from KellyMac

It seems like if someone were innocent, you wouldn't need to lie.

This is fantasy. Innocent Men are imprisoned with regularity.

Quote from KellyMac

It's another one of those cases where you really don't know until you're in it.

Exactly.

The chances of me being able to use a lie to free a Brother are slim. But would I if it could free them? Sure.

I think the new Dr. Bronner has arrived, for all you old food co-op hippies out there.

Quote from aoirthoir

Have you never lied? What reasons have you chosen to lie?

Of course I have. As a young teen I lied about almost everything. My parents cured me of it by making me prove everything I said for around a year. My ex lied to me on a daily basis. Lying is abhorrent to me, and I'm not any good at it any more. So even if I tried to lie to save someone, it would probably make the situation worse.

This is fantasy. Innocent Men are imprisoned with regularity.

This is true. However, what if you lied to keep an innocent man out of prison and it was found out? Now he's in a worse situation than before, and you're facing perjury charges.

Quote from KellyMac

Of course I have. As a young teen I lied about almost everything. My parents cured me of it

I am always dubious of people who say they never lie, even if they mean "I never lie ANYMORE..." I find such a statement so highly suspect that I believe it itself to be a lie.

Quote from KellyMac

by making me prove everything I said for around a year.

Not very nice of them though likely necessary with girls since they tend to, as you said of yourself, lie about everything.

Quote from KellyMac

My ex lied to me on a daily basis.

Every day eh? I find such exaggerations also typically are lies.

Quote from KellyMac

Lying is abhorrent to me,

Is it really?

Quote from KellyMac

and I'm not any good at it any more.

You are right about that. The two lies above are so obviously lies as to make you found out easily.

Quote from KellyMac

So even if I tried to lie to save someone, it would probably make the situation worse.

The point of this exercise is not "would your lie to protect an innocent Man succeed?" More on that in my last comment.

Quote from KellyMac

This is true. However, what if you lied to keep an innocent man out of prison and it was found out? Now he's in a worse situation than before, and you're facing perjury charges.

This is irrelevant to my *willingness* to lie. I've already covered that the likelihood of my lying *actually* saving a man is slim. But what this post asks is, *would* I do it if it would save a Man. The answer is a resounding yes.

Far to many in this movement are in stuck positions. They cannot lie because that would be immoral. They cannot lose "honor" in this "war". They cannot use feminist tactics. They cannot be hurtful or misogynists or march... They cannot say things like "I am glad that feminist died" or support inequality between a man and a woman. Or any number of other things. They wll act only in a proscribed manner laid out by their masters.

What I am trying to get Men in this movement to do is to think. Think about what can and might be. When one makes a modest proposal for instance (as when I said a woman should be caned), one does not mean literally that this is what should occur. What one is doing is breaking out of the restrictions of thinking we have. Most Men in this movement think Men should be in prison. Now they think they should only be in Prison for rarer things than society at large, but still they should be in prison. They say this despite knowing how violent Prison is for Men. Yet they oppose such violence to women. Saying "women deserve violent act A" causes Men in this movement to become agitated and start to really think about the harm of Prison to Men.

When I say "would you lie to protect a man from kidnapping/prison?" it gets us thinking. What is my responsibility to help men? Should I do more? How can I do more? It gets us brainstorming.

Quote from KellyMac

My ex lied to me on a daily basis.

Quote from aoirthoir

Every day eh? I find such exaggerations also typically are lies.

Fair enough on some of your points aoirthoir, but I can see how someone would lie everyday. Yesterday was the lie of "nothing", when she was annoyed at life in general, which somehow was all my fault. Today, was the lie of laundry. I asked her if she put her clean clothes away and dirty in laundry that I left for her, unpacked from when we went away, which she said "yes of course", later it transpired she moved the bags but hadn't unpacked the laundry.

Quote from wh666

Fair enough on some of your points aoirthoir, but I can see how someone would lie everyday. Yesterday was the lie of "nothing", when she was annoyed at life in general, which somehow was all my fault. Today, was the lie of laundry. I asked her if she put her clean clothes away and dirty in laundry that I left for her, unpacked from when we went away, which she said "yes of course", later it transpired she moved the bags but hadn't unpacked the laundry.

Hmmmm but does she slag you off publicly and humiliatingly on forums too? Makes one wonder why people like you stay in relationships that they are unhappy in and hate, slagging each other off on a daily basis instead of actually just finding someone that you do like and feel that is someone that you can live with.

Or is the lie of the relationship an easier one for you to stomach?

Quote from Chiqueo

Hmmmm but does she slag you off publicly and humiliatingly on forums too?

Who knows, I don't spy on her/follow her around online. I haven't slagged her off either. In fact, that post was the first mention of my partner and just an example to illustrate simple lies in a relationship. I never claimed to be an angel either.

Quote from Chiqueo

Makes one wonder why people like you stay in relationships that they are unhappy in and hate

Did I ever say that? You're drawing your own conclusions there. Relationships are never perfect, so your point is?

Quote from Chiqueo

instead of actually just finding someone that you do like and feel that is someone that you can live with.

How do you presume to know all of this detail about my life? Are you that arrogant as a stranger, or someone I know? I suspect the latter to be true.

Quote from Chiqueo

Or is the lie of the relationship an easier one for you to stomach?

You sure are drawing a lot from one comment aren't you?! Why do you feel so compelled to launch a personal attack against myself and no-one else? I find it quite odd a random stranger would decide to only retort to my post.

Your posts so far are very confrontational. It should be noted by the way, I posted my above comment after your "strong" introduction here.