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  1. #1
    julie's Avatar
    julie is offline Established Member
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    Why women are leaving men (men leaving women)

    I asked an Indian lady whom I see on a regular basis and consider down-to-earth and intelligent if my thought on Indian marriages was fair. She said, “That makes sense” and added a flaw she sees in their culture. She said, “Indian culture wants the best of everything” meaning they want religious ideology when it suits and modern ideology when it suits. I said, “But that can’t be everyone” and she answered, “Of course, some are too conservative and they won’t change”.

    Yet, wanting the best of everything is in all cultures IMO though some rephrase these words to ‘Having it all’. It can work if all parties are committed to each other and work together.

    ……………..

    The conversation was sparked over a prominent Indian man (both in NZ and India). My first thought of him was, “Which MRA online site does he belong to?” But since he had a fall from grace (his peer group), is on a spiritual journey questioning what’s real and not, AND the fact he’s a nice man and has an adorable daughter …… I am supportive.

    He was above capable to represent himself in the family court and has shared care. Since the split, he has quit his career and lives on money coming from India, which I believe is protected from child support (family trust perhaps). He’s not the only one I know who has quit their job over a separation and it’s not just men. One professional woman I know was the sole financial provider and her husband stayed at home. He studied family law and then went for everything he could get including 40% of her present and future income – thus she won’t work. Their house is on the market at the upper financial scale and he gets his half and her half because he’s entitled to half her pension that she may get in perhaps 20 years from now. He got half the children’s savings for education and doesn’t have to pay child support.

    Since the split he has bought another home with the children’s savings as a deposit and lives with a younger woman while she won’t be eligible to buy a home as she has no capital until she retires and her income is split.

    The strange thing about this lady’s marriage and separation is that she believes all material possessions and money was hers as if he was an accessory while she speaks highly of him as a stay-at-home parent and a father.

    I hear this all the time and even my own ex tells me, “You were a good wife and mother”.

    …………….

    Our Indian man’s marriage was not exactly arranged yet it was based on the ‘best interest of him and his family’s reputation’ and both side’s parents consented to it (I don’t know what ‘best interest’ was wanted from her side – maybe to be taken care of). He played the role of provider while she played the role of elderly caregiver and child raiser. One thing he asked me was, “Why do we need to have children?”….. I answered, “It’s a hormone thing” and we got into a small, serious conversation before playing a game of tennis.

    ………….

    Things deteriorated when our Indian wife no longer wanted to take care of his parents full-time and his career took off and demanded long hours. A second home was purchased under her name for the parents to move into yet things didn’t mend. After visiting her family in India, she moved into the second home and placed his parents with him. Divorce was filed and agreements sorted through the family court.

    ……………

    His story reminds me of a farmer friend who phoned one day anxious and confused because a woman he had living with him was unhappy. He couldn’t understand how this could be when he created what he considered the perfect life. He felt he was offering her all she needed such as nice refurbished home, a man who could satisfy her, financial stability as his career was peaking and demanded long hours.

    What he didn’t understand was that his psychological needs were being met while hers were being neglected. He felt good while she felt miserable just as our Indian couple. In the end both women left.

    ………….

    Psychological needs are also neglected when men and women lose their roles (role sensitive agents) through separation and some end up committing suicide. There are 4 that are crucial and they are interwoven with each other.

    1) Love – belonging and acceptance
    This is a human interaction and people fulfill this need through groups – the most prominent is family and then peer groups. It provides a sense of security and ‘role sensitive agents’ like “I am a father, mother, sister, brother, son, daughter”. When you take this away from someone, they generally go into survival mode and seek to replace it meaning they’ll find another way to fulfill this need (or ignore it and numb it with alcohol, drugs, sex in a dysfunctional way). Often they become resentful to the person who took it away and attack them and defend their stand.

    2) Excitement and learning
    People can be on a treadmill – doing the same mundane thing day in and day out for short periods, even a few years. But sooner or later they’ll start losing the plot (so to speak). They need to have excitement in their lives and they need to be learning.

    In functional marriages, people take time out like spending time holidaying. Many end up investing in holiday homes, boats and in other toys. They travel far and wide or book the same camping grounds while children are young.

    Working long hours and through holidays is a good way to ruin a relationship unless the other person is 100% part of the event. It’s interwoven with love – acceptance and belonging. The one working long hours and through holidays feels belonging and acceptance at their career/mundane job while the one who isn’t working feels unloved for their need for excitement and learning is not accepted and thus they feel they don’t belong in the relationship.

    3) Autonomy
    This is one of today’s basic rights and even in the past’s ideology it’s respected. To take this away also means to take away love for if someone feels they should control another, they are basically saying they don’t accept the person for who the person is, and since they don’t trust to give autonomy, they show the other person they don’t belong.

    Can you imagine being in an intimate relationship in 2012 where you are not trusted to think for yourself?

    4) Recognition
    We all must feel recognized and sadly if we don’t get it by being good, we will get it being bad. There used to be a saying when mothers spanked children while having lunch with other women and children. The children sometimes played up badly for they wanted attention and the mothers would smack them (didn’t hurt them) and say, “You just want mum/grandmum to show you they love you”.

    If you don’t give recognition to your partner you show you consider them ‘worthless’. When they try something new and you put them down, you destroy their trust in you.

    ……………

    I could go on and on about Psychological needs as I have a reputation for giving them to others naturally (not online for life is busy enough offline) but again I don’t have much time, lol.

    If you can take something on board by my post, GREAT. If you think this is shit, don’t take it on board. I don’t care for it helps enough offline.
    Ignorance is the Oppressor, Vigilance the Liberator.

  2. #2
    Missy-A's Avatar
    Missy-A is offline Obvious Troll
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    Re: Why women are leaving men (men leaving women)

    What he didn’t understand was that his psychological needs were being met while hers were being neglected. He felt good while she felt miserable just as our Indian couple. In the end both women left.
    I don't care to get involved with indian men. If it ain't white, it ain't right.
    Last edited by Missy-A; 12th-January-2012 at 02:18 AM.
    “Understanding is a two-way street.”

  3. #3
    julie's Avatar
    julie is offline Established Member
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    Re: Why women are leaving men (men leaving women)

    Quote Quote from Missy-A View Post
    I don't care to get involved with indian men. If it ain't white, it ain't right.
    The grass isn't greener on the other side, lol.

    People need to adapt.
    Ignorance is the Oppressor, Vigilance the Liberator.

  4. #4
    Marx's Avatar
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    Re: Why women are leaving men (men leaving women)

    Quote Quote from Missy-A View Post
    I don't care to get involved with indian men. If it ain't white, it ain't right.
    That looks somewhat like racism..?
    The most offensive thing you can do to a feminist is treat her with FULL equality.
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  5. #5
    Missy-A's Avatar
    Missy-A is offline Obvious Troll
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    Re: Why women are leaving men (men leaving women)

    Quote Quote from Marx View Post
    That looks somewhat like racism..?
    Not racism, but personal preference.
    “Understanding is a two-way street.”

  6. #6
    Douglas's Avatar
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    Re: Why women are leaving men (men leaving women)

    Quote Quote from Missy-A View Post
    Not racism, but personal preference.
    Personal preference can be racist in the strict meaning of the word, though it is a fairly harmless racism, socially speaking. Societies tend to frown on racism that is socially damaging.

    Personal preference is
    Quote Quote from Missy-A
    I don't care to get involved with indian men.

    But when you make a statement about what is 'right' (rather than "what feels right for me") it comes across as socially racist.
    Quote Quote from Missy-A
    If it ain't white, it ain't right.


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  7. #7
    Marx's Avatar
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    Re: Why women are leaving men (men leaving women)

    Quote Quote from Missy-A View Post
    Not racism, but personal preference.
    I prefer red-heads, but I wouldn't say they are 'right'. Douglas hits the nail on the head.
    The most offensive thing you can do to a feminist is treat her with FULL equality.
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  8. #8
    themanonthestreet's Avatar
    themanonthestreet is offline Established Member
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    Re: Why women are leaving men (men leaving women)

    Gentlemen.... Ever hear of a supportive sentence?

    "I don't care to get involved with indian men." is the statement of preference. Whereas "If it ain't white, it ain't right." supports that statement of PERSONAL PREFERENCE.

    Now if she had stated nothing more than "If it ain't white, it ain't right." in her post, I could understand the calls of racism (still PC crap to me but meh...).

    Let's try not to push the PC language buttons where it may not be. Honestly, it's no different than a good many guys here stating that western and/or American/Euro woman are no good etc etc...

    Doesn't mean they are in fact NO GOOD, just means that in the speakers personal opinion and preference (their eyes), western women suck. A supportive statement of preference.

    Oh, and one last note. Since the she is Indian, she cant be a racist anyhow! As privvy het white males (such as myself btw), you all should know that!

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  9. #9
    Duran's Avatar
    Duran is offline Obvious Troll
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    Re: Why women are leaving men (men leaving women)

    Quote Quote from Douglas View Post
    Personal preference can be racist in the strict meaning of the word
    The key issue here imo is wether or not we have any conscious control over what we find attractive, if the answer is no then you simply can't label it racism, it'd be akin to calling homosexuals "anti-heterosexuals" or "anti-male/female" because they prefer people of their own sex over the opposite sex.

  10. #10
    pocketnap's Avatar
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    Re: Why women are leaving men (men leaving women)

    Quote Quote from Duran View Post
    The key issue here imo is wether or not we have any conscious control over what we find attractive, if the answer is no then you simply can't label it racism, it'd be akin to calling homosexuals "anti-heterosexuals" or "anti-male/female" because they prefer people of their own sex over the opposite sex.
    When a gay man or woman is faced with the reality that a growing and vibrant life in Jesus Christ is incompatible with their sexual attractions, what exactly does he or she do? What steps can be taken toward leaving the gay life and identity?




  11. #11
    Duran's Avatar
    Duran is offline Obvious Troll
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    Re: Why women are leaving men (men leaving women)

    Quote Quote from pocketnap View Post
    When a gay man or woman is faced with the reality that a growing and vibrant life in Jesus Christ is incompatible with their sexual attractions, what exactly does he or she do? What steps can be taken toward leaving the gay life and identity?



    Choosing not to engage in such things doesn't make one any less attracted and preferential to such things.

  12. #12
    Percy's Avatar
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    Re: Why women are leaving men (men leaving women)

    Nice post Jools.
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  13. #13
    Martin E's Avatar
    Martin E is offline Established Member
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    Re: Why women are leaving men (men leaving women)

    Part of the reason I come to this site is because I think for myself; I don’t just think what others think I should. That might make me agreeable to you on issues of sexism, since most of you here would probably take a similar line to me on this issue, but it might mean I disagree with you on other issues such as race. Just as I don’t tow the officially accepted line regarding sexism, so I don’t regarding racism; what I say I say not to annoy or provoke but because it reflects how I feel.
    Missy-A argues that she stated a preference for white and others have pointed out that we do not have control over what we feel attracted to. However, the statement looks inflexible in that it suggests white is always preferable over other colours and it therefore suggests that whiteness alone is the criteria for the preference. This could be construed as racist because it puts a higher value upon white skin. This could be considered to be exacerbated by the part of the statement which suggests that it is “right” to like white and is therefore suggestive that it is wrong to prefer other colours.
    Having said that I would support Missy-A’s right to express herself in this way because, in essence, if this statement best reflects how she feels she surely has a right to be what she is and to express herself. What is anyone labelling her racist, seeking to do in applying this label? Stop her being what she is? You won’t achieve that objective as you well know, so the best you can hope to achieve is to shame her into silence. We live in a society that tries to tell us what we should feel, believe and think, and we’ve all stopped being true to ourselves. By seeking to apply the labels society uses to shame people into silence we become agents of that oppression.
    So, how do I feel about Missy-A’s statement? Firstly I would say that I like her statement. If I had been tall and she said she liked tall men I would have been pleased. If I had been sitting next to a short man who read the statement with me, (something I do frequently, as one does) I would have consoled him with the words, "Oh well, better luck next time". As a white person I feel flattered she should think a trait of mine worthy of her high esteem. Thanks, Missy-A.
    Last edited by Martin E; 13th-January-2012 at 11:45 AM.

  14. #14
    byslexic_danana's Avatar
    byslexic_danana is online now Super Moderator
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    Re: Why women are leaving men (men leaving women)

    Good God, this is a place I come to avoid PC bullshit, let's not perpetuate it........

    Added after 9 minutes:

    Quote Quote from Martin E View Post
    As a white person I feel flattered she should think a trait of mine worthy of her high esteem. Thanks, Missy-A.
    I hear she likes English accents, too. Not sure about shaved heads, but I'm liking her preferences, so far..............!
    Last edited by byslexic_danana; 13th-January-2012 at 01:43 PM. Reason: content auto merged
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  15. #15
    julie's Avatar
    julie is offline Established Member
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    Re: Why women are leaving men (men leaving women)

    Quote Quote from themanonthestreet View Post
    Since the she is Indian, she cant be a racist anyhow! As privvy het white males (such as myself btw), you all should know that!

    TMOTS
    Nice one. You are allowed to dislike (My grandfather taught me never to hate but dislike). It kinda makes me difficult for hate groups, lol.

    I am not keen on Indian men, I have a preference for white though I know I am appreciated more by Maori.

    Actually I speak an untruth.... I am appreciated by white also - lots of people appreciate me. I just sometimes think Maori get me better cause they've suffered differently and voice it to me.

    Added after 27 minutes:

    Quote Quote from pocketnap View Post
    When a gay man or woman is faced with the reality that a growing and vibrant life in Jesus Christ is incompatible with their sexual attractions, what exactly does he or she do? What steps can be taken toward leaving the gay life and identity?

    Jesus Christ isn't alive today to answer any questions, as you know. But he did change the 10 commandments to "love another how you want to be loved" though he said "Love thy neighbour as you want to be loved".

    ................

    I asked an American Christian man online who has a website that speaks of the evil side of humans that people have seen over generations about women and gays. He emailed back and said, "Listen to God, not man" (or woman).

    There are over 3,000 Christian groups in the world and most say the other will go to hell and burn in pain for eternity for some kind of sin including not following their preferred religion. Being gay is just one group who has to put up with the numerous sins they believe in.

    Best not get involved and best to be intelligent about this and help others be intelligent. It's not gays that are the problem but the small mindedness some people grab for their survival.

    Added after 11 minutes:

    Quote Quote from Marx View Post
    I prefer red-heads, but I wouldn't say they are 'right'. Douglas hits the nail on the head.
    hmmm. best I let women who think you are gorgeous as I do to dye their hair blonde. Thanks for the tip. (big smile)
    Last edited by julie; 14th-January-2012 at 06:39 AM. Reason: content auto merged
    Ignorance is the Oppressor, Vigilance the Liberator.


 

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