Note: this post did contain paragraphs when I originally posted it. Sorry about the lack of white space. S

Quote from S Culbert

Note: this post did contain paragraphs when I originally posted it. Sorry about the lack of white space. S

That's okay.

You'll be able to edit it accordingly if you so wish - after you're moderation period (10+ posts).

Boys shouldn't be raised by women period!

You do realize that boys raised in single parent house holds have bad chemistry! I should know, my dad was ran out the door by my mom when I was 9 years of age. Thing is I grew up around a lot of men so my chemistry isn't all fucked up!

Quote from Zuberi

Boys shouldn't be raised by women period!

You do realize that boys raised in single parent house holds have bad chemistry! I should know, my dad was ran out the door by my mom when I was 9 years of age.

We often hear from bitter mothers how "the father was never around" but how much of it is actually genuine neglect, and how much because the father had no choice in the matter?

Of course women are "crap at" being the ideal masculine role model and fountain of masculine wisdom for young boys. Duh!

I've raised a boy, and he's 20 now...and he probably still knows more about male sexuality than I do. In fact, I'm quite certain of it.

Boys really do need men to bond with...their fathers to talk to about "guy things". That pretty much goes without saying but....sometimes single moms raising boys don't realize how much they (themselves) don't know. Or they over-estimate their own ability to compensate for what they don't know.

BTW....I think it's hard for boys to talk to their moms about sex, and I think it's also difficult for girls to talk to their dads about sex.

Thanks Marx, for cleaning up my post

> sometimes single moms raising boys don't realize how much they (themselves) don't know

So why the hell are they just raising boys willynilly? If, say, I had a wife who just died in childbirth with a daughter. The girl is fine. First thing I would do is pounce on lots of women and hammer them for details of what it's like to be a girl turning into a woman, what their needs and requirements are, how women might think I'm lacking, in other words how can I make up for that deficiency of motherhood. I'd also seriously consider marriage for my daughter's sake with the caveat that the new wife also gets involved with my daughter and fully understands the situation. Quid pro quo, of course. Why don't other mothers think like me?

SC

Quote from S Culbert

Because, frankly, they're crap at it.

I am going to have to take issue, SC. Not from any fundemental disagreement in Principle, but to hose down mendacity.

Let me elaborate. Women don't like random topics on sex for sex's sake.

Yes, office conversations with women can get sexually heavy, but that's usually after an extensive warmup period. Men are quite happy to just jump in there.

I doubt very much that you can back up your assertion. Woman vary, with some being highly sexualised and thinking of it most of the time - maybe in ways slightly different to you - and some more prudish and scared of their own impulses. The water cooler warm up in my experience is of the instant heater type.

Most men I know of do not discuss sex very often at all. Maybe there is a period of life when it is discussed but generalising has its pitfalls.

Sex, having probably been the first thing you thought of today, - the idea of a pee, a coffee, a pipe of tobacco and a piece of toast arrived in my head - as a contrary instance - well ahead of any sexual thought. In fact I didn't think of sex until I turned on my computor, and that was because my screen saver is of a rather fetching young woman in a short, white slip, rooting around on her knees looking in the botton of a cupboard (don't ask !) - is ever present. You might not get any, but you always want to seek it out.

Women can't cope with this in boys. Rather than deal with the fact that most 14yo boys just can't stop themselves drooling when a pair enter the room, feminist mothers of the older generation would rather they shut it away. Pretend that their 14yo isn't panting in the corner over an average pop video and hopefully it will go away. "La la la, I can't hear you" approach.

I was actively exploring girls when I was six. I doubt my parents had any idea. My dad certainly didn't. By 14 I hadn't heard a word from my parents about sex. But had the matter arisen, I am sure both would have coped. That the lads of today are assulted at every opportunity by lewd and fanciful video depictions of 'women's rules' sexuality, is a serious problem.

If you're unfortunate to be a boy brought up in a feminist atmosphere, all your sexual education, everything you know about love, penetration and kids will come from other boys and our useless education system. Unless women can talk frankly about sex, they will always be really crap at bringing up boys.

A kid cannot avoid learning something about sex with it so in-your-face in all aspects of our society. What is learned is the issue. Do you have a problem with your mother that you are casting onto everyone?

Nothing special is required here. An ability to listen would be a good start. An ability to not say "well, that's sexist filthy nonsense" and actually give a shit about one's son's sexual wellbeing and sexuality would be a major step up for women. After all, he's got to live with this until he's dead or castrated.

It is unfortunate that some people will say 'That's filthy nonsense' from time to time when perfectly reasonable conversation could ensue - but expecially when it is filthy nonsense, when it is fortunate for a lad to hear it and people won't say it.

And if women say "it's all a load of shite", then that poor 14yo has to live with a load of shite for an awfully long time.

Again, a bit of differentiation is needed. Some is a load of shite and a lad needs to be told that.

And suppose it goes further than this. Suppose that boy has been abused at some point in the past. Now the relatively normal sexual confusion gets multiplied along side a serious quantity of shame.

Whoa there. Define abuse. Some, a tiny few have been abused, but if you take a feminist tack about abuse, pretty well everyone has been.

Throw in a touch of traditional sexual repression - I could argue that 'traditional sexual repression' is just another nonsense myth but this is supposed to be your essay. I certainly didn't notice any repression when I was a kid - in fact quite the opposite. - and feminists wonder why sexism happens? How about perversion? Sex is. ?? Women merely demonize it. That women demonize 14 yo boys for something they can't control just seems like a subtle form of child abuse.

I am not sure just what it is you are argueing, but it starting to be a one-note tune. Why can't a 14 y/o control his perversions? Whack the little shit around the ears until he learns to control himself.

However, maybe things are brightening up. The younger generation seems less uptight in the uk regarding sex - they seem to understand sex so much better than their mothers, frankly. Young moms might do a better job than older moms and it's certainly hard to see how it could be much worse.

And your proofs of this?

Here's hoping for the future. Meanwhile, we have a generation of boys who are, as likely, really confused regarding sex and how to be reasonably gentlemanly about it. AFAICS, this usually leads to bad things happening, like rape. Oh, how the irony never stops. Can women see the bigger picture? S Culbert

In all walks of life our boys are being sold a load of shite and I would agree that they need men to steer them to the better paths. But so do women. I do not see that you have made any convincing case here, but rather simply asserted unsubstantiated myths about boys, and indeed men.

Ok, before I start, I apologise for the formatting. I'm an old usenet man and all this html/javascript crap is really doing my nut in and I can't work out how to turn it all off with all those ideas in my head at the same time . My OP has >> at the start, your replies have a >.

>>Because, frankly, they're crap at it.

>I am going to have to take issue, SC. Not from any fundemental disagreement in
>Principle, but to hose down mendacity.

Mendacity? If you said exaggeration, I'd agree, fair enough. But outright lying? Can you back up that assertion?

>>Let me elaborate. Women don't like random topics on sex for sex's sake.
<snip>
>>Men are quite happy to just jump in there.

>I doubt very much that you can back up your assertion.

Ok, here's an experiment. Get a job in a female environment (say, an office) and on the first day, ask some random woman if she likes gay sex, with the appropriate sarcasm. Then, get another job in a male environment (say, toolshop or building site) and ask the same thing. Compare the results. I've worked in both and I can assure you that the men (generally) won't be offended, will take the piss and have a laugh. The women, well, you're risking getting fired on the first day with this idea.

> Most men I know of do not discuss sex very often at all.

Men vary, just like women. I don't know of your personal situation, but that is very definitely not my experience.

>>Sex, having probably been the first thing you thought of today,

>- the idea of a pee, a coffee, a pipe of tobacco and a piece of toast arrived in my head
>- as a contrary instance - well ahead of any sexual thought.

As I said, men vary. Clearly you vary by a lot. The only time in my adult life when I didn't think about sex immediately on consciousness was after testicular surgery. I'd say I'm more the norm here. I'd also say that sales of the morning edition of the Sun/Star in the UK would confirm this (that edition has a pair of tits on page 3 fyi).

>I was actively exploring girls when I was six

Lucky you! I started masturbating regularly when I was 4. I didn't explore any girls until I was over 18.

>By 14 I hadn't heard a word from my parents about sex. But had the matter arisen, I >am sure both would have coped

Well, I did raise the matter with my mother and she didn't cope. I have seen nothing in the behaviour of other mothers which would suggest that my mother is alone in this. Mothers just don't want to know.

Indeed, the fact that your parents didn't get involved is a suble hint that they couldn't cope either.

>That the lads of today are assulted at every opportunity by lewd and fanciful video
>depictions of 'women's rules' sexuality, is a serious problem.

Surely that's an argument for coping with ones son's sexuality rather than burying it?

>Do you have a problem with your mother that you are casting onto everyone?

No, I'm not casting it onto everyone. Are you actually following this discussion? I'm only targeting single mothers raising sons here. Noone else.

And yes, I'm biased. I do have a problem with my mother (read my intro if you're interested.) But that in itself doesn't invalidate this opinion piece.

> It is unfortunate that some people

It is unfortunate that some people [rape others/die during childbirth/loose their kids over trivia/get testicular cancer]. Why are you trying to degender this subject? All 4 examples in the [ ]s are gendered. I wouldn't even dare think about how testicular cancer and women interact or how many men have died during childbirth. So why do you do so here? "People" is so utterly the wrong word here. Indeed, it almost makes as much sense to use the word 'martian' instead.

>will say 'That's filthy nonsense' from time to time when perfectly reasonable
>conversation could ensue - but expecially when it is filthy nonsense,

Sex, as a subject, is filthy nonsense, is it?

>when it is fortunate for a lad to hear it and people won't say it.

Don't quite get your point here.

>>And if women say "it's all a load of shite", then that poor 14yo has to live with a load >>of shite for an awfully long time.

>Some is a load of shite and a lad needs to be told that

<bangs head off wall> that's precisely my point. Mothers seem to be incapable of doing this.

>>And suppose it goes further than this. Suppose that boy has been abused at some
>>point in the past. Now the relatively normal sexual confusion gets multiplied along side
>>a serious quantity of shame.

>Whoa there. Define abuse. Some, a tiny few have been abused, but if you take a
>feminist tack about abuse, pretty well everyone has been.

This is your first strong point here. I can't define abuse accurately. I admit this failing. I don't feel that I know what abuse is for definite.

>>Throw in a touch of traditional sexual repression

>I could argue that 'traditional sexual repression' is just another nonsense myth but this
>is supposed to be your essay. I certainly didn't notice any repression when I was a kid
>- in fact quite the opposite.

Could you stop rubbing my face in the fact that your childhood was obviously a lot happier than mine? Aside, the UK establishment seems to be build on traditional sexual repression. Look at the porn laws recently. In fact, look at the porn laws from old too. Or you could simply google Jackie Smith.

>> - and feminists wonder why sexism happens? How about perversion? Sex is.
> ??

Ok, formatting issue here, was originally on another paragraph. I merely point out that sex is a part of life. Sex isn't evil (as per sexual repression). Sex simply is. As an analogy, guns arn't evil, people who point guns and pull are evil.

>>Women merely demonize it. That women demonize 14 yo boys for something they
>>can't control just seems like a subtle form of child abuse.

>I am not sure just what it is you are argueing, but it starting to be a one-note tune.
>Why can't a 14 y/o control his perversions? Whack the little shit around the ears until
>he learns to control himself.

1) Mothers don't whack the shit around the ears. That the point of this piece which you seem to subliminally not get.
2) Are we talking about perversions or sex? Why do you pollute with 'perversion'? Ironically, to equate 14yo boy+sex with perversion suggests sexual repression. It's perfectly normal for a 14yo boy to want sex. It's not perverted in any way whatsoever. That's my point, which you seem to have just confirmed by accident.

You want to call horny 14yo boys 'perverted', fine. Just don't go anywhere near any 14yo boys and don't let them hear such stupidity. That goes for any mother of boys too.

Again, that's the point of this piece. Again, should a 14yo boy have been abused at an earlier age and hears this tripe, you're only going to fuck him up a lot more, hence my (admittedly wooly) abuse comment above.

>>However, maybe things are brightening up. The younger generation seems less
>>uptight in the uk regarding sex - they seem to understand sex so much better than
>>their mothers, frankly. Young moms might do a better job than older moms and it's
>>certainly hard to see how it could be much worse.

>And your proofs of this?

Of what, that things might get better or it could be worse?

I say things might get better simply because of occasional dealings with kids in the 13-18yo age bracket and *listening* to what they have to say. Yes, they have their own ignorances and stupidity to deal with, but they don't seem to have the hang ups (repression) of my generation.

Pardon my optimism.

>I do not see that you have made any convincing case here, but rather simply asserted
>unsubstantiated myths about boys, and indeed men

If you said "asserted ... myths about mothers" I'd almost be inclined to agree: I am being a bit stereotypical. As for my myths about boys/men waking up with erections and wanting sex lots, your proofs of this is what, precisely?

SC

I had it easy. When I hit puberty and asked my mom (single) what was happening she told me I was sick and perverted for asking. She then insisted that I might be gay for trying to find out what was happening to me on the internet as I didn't have a father figure to help me out and I was home-schooled. My sisters on the other hand (I found out later) were told that all guys who are interest in you just want to get into your pants...

Kids need a mother and father for this reason, whether it's a girl or boy. Both sexes help the kids in different ways, in terms of sex talks. My parents gave us all one on one talks about this, so we get perspectives of both sides. Boys still need their moms, like girls need their dads. Why do you think most feminists have daddy issues?Also, not all mothers are feminist monsters or scared to talk about sex and hormones to their son. That is like saying all fathers are scared to talk about periods and sex with their daughters. Some are single because a spouse died and can't always depend on family.

Quote from Nikonian

I had it easy. When I hit puberty and asked my mom (single) what was happening she told me I was sick and perverted for asking. She then insisted that I might be gay for trying to find out what was happening to me on the internet as I didn't have a father figure to help me out and I was home-schooled. My sisters on the other hand (I found out later) were told that all guys who are interest in you just want to get into your pants...

I'm sorry that happened to you, Nikonian. It sounds like your mother had more than a few issues. For the record, my mother also told me that guys were interested in only one thing from girls...

I agree that boys should have male role models. In most cases where they don't, I do think the single mother has something to do with it.

Quote from KellyMac

I'm sorry that happened to you, Nikonian. It sounds like your mother had more than a few issues. For the record, my mother also told me that guys were interested in only one thing from girls...

I agree that boys should have male role models. In most cases where they don't, I do think the single mother has something to do with it.

One thing's for sure; if I have a daughter, I will tell her to be careful of some guys who seem to want one thing. However, I will not tell her that all guys are only interested in sex and nothing else. I'm not about to give her that kool-aid.

Truth to tell Fathers are critical to their children's development, the studies are here at AM. Michael Gurian has written about Boys Development and Girls Development although predominantly Boys, many of his books are here Art and Literature.
Fathers are critical the peer reviewed empirical research demonstrating that is found in the studies found at Essential, mothers are not critical other than whilst the child is in the womb.

For starters let me just say that I am a woman, raising a boy. Frankly clumping women and feminists all together in one category is bullshit! I am not a feminist, in fact feminists annoy the shit out of me. Yes I enjoy my equal pay and right to vote and all of that, but I would so much rather be home with my kids than busting my non existent balls to try and make ends meet. And there are plenty of women out there who can talk about sex. My boy is currently only 6, but you better believe that when he starts getting boners left and right and everything in his room is sticky I will be talking to him about sex. Any women who doesn't is a damn idiot! He will know how to respect women while showing his interest in them. He will know to wear a condom when he decides he's ready, because he will know that if he doesn't I will kill him if STD's or the girls father don't. Not to mention he will know that life as he knows it will come to an end if he ever gets a girl pregnant. Are you just a women hater or what? All women aren't imbecilic morons!