Quote from haahoo

and were you?

You know women! Always internalising it and putting the guilt on themselves.

Oh, maybe you don't know that part.

One woman I confronted. Told her to keep her dirty paws of my man.

Quote from julie

You know women! Always internalising it and putting the guilt on themselves.

Oh, maybe you don't know that part.

One woman I confronted. Told her to keep her dirty paws of my man.

well, I dont often see women who bear guilt these days, they usually find someone else to blame..

Odd, quite a few folk have noted this habit of yours, always having to do down anyone who does not agree to your take on things..

Ad hominem. Haahoo.

Yes some people do see me that way. But I have a view and they (and you ) have theirs. I get done down often enough - but I don't whine about it like you are doing.

You put a position; I argue otherwise. And you reckon I am 'doing you down' ? I am simply countering your arguement. You can disagree with me but I am not supposed to disagree with you.

How does that work?

While it's true that ultimately the blame for cheating lies with the person who cheated.....after all, we can't preach responsibility for one's actions while resolving ourselves of it where we see fit.....there is a level of culpability that can fall to others.

If a wife consistently denies her husband sex and affection, then she does hold a certain degree of blame if her husband seeks it elsewhere. Women cannot realistically expect undying fidelity if they won't have sex with their husbands. Given the number of morally compromised individuals willing to aid married men in cheating, even the most steadfast of husbands are likely to be tempted if they are deprived of sex at home.

Women (or men) who knowingly pursue relationships with people who are married also share blame. Many are unscrupulous opportunists who are willing to sacrifice the lives of others for their own selfish gain. Anyone who disregards the lives and feelings of others...who disregards that there is a marriage, children and a family at stake shows a marked lack of empathy.

Many men who pursue sex outside of marriage do so because they are starved for it within their marriage, however, those (men and women) who do so for a change of pace or simply because 'they can' show an even greater lack of empathy.

It is one thing if both parties went into the marriage with the understanding that it would not be monogamous, but most people go into marriage with the belief that are entering into a monogamous relationship. They believe they are safe from the risks involved with promiscuity such as STD's. To subject another to the risks of a promiscuous relationship against their will and often without their knowledge is, in my opinion, unconscionable.

Sex in marriage should be a very intimate thing, the literal aspect of the two becoming one....something that should not be shared or given away cheaply outside of marriage.

If a marriage has broken down to the point where one or both are seeking sex outside the marriage, then perhaps it is time to either get some sort of marriage counseling (work on the problem) or get a divorce.

Kim, do you think that couples who can't work their differences out in a sexless marriage should stay married and just have sex with other people? Or should they stay married and continue to be celibate?

Where would you draw the line...you seem to advocate people staying married but in your opinion, what is the point of no return? When is it o.k. to seek a divorce?

How constructive is blame, I wonder, in trying to work things out?

Quote from TERA

If a marriage has broken down to the point where one or both are seeking sex outside the marriage, then perhaps it is time to either get some sort of marriage counseling (work on the problem) or get a divorce.

I agree. Counselling. Seeking sex outside is a BIG SIGN that something is really wrong. But it may not be the marriage firstly but the errant partner. Divorce is a final option that devastates and should not be taken with ease. Children need to be factored into any equation too.

Kim, (Can I answer too?) do you think that couples who can't work their differences out in a sexless marriage should stay married and just have sex with other people? Or should they stay married and continue to be celibate?

A sexless marriage is a possibility if both have a low libido. And if it is a gift by one to the other who has lost the capacity (say through illness or injury) There is always tomorrow. A couple should try very hard to 'work it out'. They have vowed to.

I would even understand an 'arrangement' which allows one to have sex beyond the bounds of marriage if the other agreed, uncoerced and un-'persuaded'. I would even understand a third party inclusive arrangement as a mature option under specific circumstances where all parties are suficiently mature to cope with the emotional consequences.

Consider also a situation where one is not able to agree; say they are incapacitated to a very high degree, comatose or institutionalised.

But this article is about 'Mistresses'. That is a woman who has a liaison with a married man. And it is about 'Cheating', which is done behind someone's back with deception part of the behaviour.

Where would you draw the line...you seem to advocate people staying married but for you, what is the point of no return? When is it o.k. to seek a divorce?

Quote from Percy

Ad hominem. Haahoo.

Yes some people do see me that way. But I have a view and they (and you ) have theirs. I get done down often enough - but I don't whine about it like you are doing.

There you go again percy.. hypocrisy! It's an ad hominem if someone is doing it to yourself, and whining, yet you expect the "percy pass" when you do it?

Well, you dont get it percy anymore, undoubtedly great mens activist that you are, no one is above criticism, and no one should be unduly concerned at having their own shortcomings highlighted.. This is how we learn and adapt..

You put a position; I argue otherwise. And you reckon I am 'doing you down' ? I am simply countering your arguement. You can disagree with me but I am not supposed to disagree with you.

How does that work?

If you really want to know..

You seem to just turn your nose up at the whole need for a compass at all and the whole task. It show that it is all too difficult for you and so is not necessary for you. You deride it and find silly reasons for holding an unseamanlike attitude. Sheer laziness.

By making comments like that. If that is how it seems to you, then I suggest you go and get your senses checked out. And while your about it, try rooting your logic in reality a bit more, when you stretch an analogy too far, you get a sore arse..



None of us is perfect percy, but I tend to have a problem taking morality lessons from folk who dont seem to follow their own moral guidance all that well..

Not that I am saying you shouldnt try, or particularly picking on you, but when I want to build myself big muscular arms, I read articles from folk in the muscle mags who HAVE big muscular arms..

If I want to know how to succeed in a marraige, I look to folk who have done that..

Sorry percy, its not my intention to get in an argument with you, it is simply a matter of us having differring standards of morality..

If you think yours are better than mine, and will call me lazy, "farm boy" or whatever for not sharing yours, then go ahead, I agree to differ and take your remarks..

Now, I have to pop down the the barn and take a nap..

Perhaps I will find some sexy hiefers down there?

percy
Originally Posted by TERA
If a marriage has broken down to the point where one or both are seeking sex outside the marriage, then perhaps it is time to either get some sort of marriage counseling (work on the problem) or get a divorce.

I agree. Counselling. Seeking sex outside is a BIG SIGN that something is really wrong. But it may not be the marriage firstly but the errant partner. Divorce is a final option that devastates and should not be taken with ease. Children need to be factored into any equation too.

I agree, but I think the FRIGID partner is as likely to be "wrong" as the "errant" partner..

I don't know how closely Kim's views on marraige match my own, but I believe that it IS possible to have a good faithful marraige, and also I know it is something that most men, including myself, are well capable of adapting to WITH THE RIGHT WIFE!!

I don't personally believe in divorce UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES.

But, I dont believe that we need to batter and deride those who fail to live up to the images of perfection as we are all imperfect before god..

Counselling, well, that is all well and good, but who do we choose as our "counsellor?"..

I would choose a man of god, because, he is put there by gods will, I would not choose a state-appointed, approved by the feminists, pyshcobabbler..

But that is my personal choice..

Kim, (Can I answer too?) do you think that couples who can't work their differences out in a sexless marriage should stay married and just have sex with other people? Or should they stay married and continue to be celibate?

A sexless marriage is a possibility if both have a low libido. And if it is a gift by one to the other who has lost the capacity (say through illness or injury) There is always tomorrow. A couple should try very hard to 'work it out'. They have vowed to.

Yes, I think there are ways, if folk want to take them.. Unfortunately it is not easy these days due to the sexual imagery all around us..

I would even understand an 'arrangement' which allows one to have sex beyond the bounds of marriage if the other agreed, uncoerced and un-'persuaded'. I would even understand a third party inclusive arrangement as a mature option under specific circumstances where all parties are suficiently mature to cope with the emotional consequences.

Idealistic, Id say venture there at your peril, but its a strange set up, and I can vouch for the fact that it rarely truly works as intended and consequences can be very serious..

Consider also a situation where one is not able to agree; say they are incapacitated to a very high degree, comatose or institutionalised.

We have to remember that sex is not really an essential part of life.. No one died from sex starvation! Spiritual life can more than compensate for sexual absence..

But this article is about 'Mistresses'. That is a woman who has a liaison with a married man. And it is about 'Cheating', which is done behind someone's back with deception part of the behaviour.

"Cheating" is an emotionally loaded term and I despise the term, because much so called "cheating" is actually "playing the game to your own rules" which seems in todays society to be perfectly acceptable..

Also, some folk do not truly know their own rules, and break them and change them as they go along!

Sex has become a "recreational pursuit" to many, which is problematic for many reasons..

Where would you draw the line...you seem to advocate people staying married but for you, what is the point of no return? When is it o.k. to seek a divorce?

I do not believe divorce is every acceptable, marraige is a unification of two independant opposite sex humans into a single considered entity, it should be no more possible to break that union than to cleave a human in half..

However, I think marraige needs to be consumated and celebrated (not necessarily in that order) and a child born of the marraige before it is considered "unbreakable"..

I childless marraiges, in my view, are not "truly" marraiges..

They are, effectively,"civil unions".. that may progress, upon production of a child of the couple, into something that marraiges is truly about..

The purpose of marraige is primarily to form an effective social environment in which to raise children of the marraige..

To see it any other way, is to warp it's primary purpose..

Parents are the folk who most truly have their childrens welfare at heart more than anyone else, I think this is certainly a safe presumption to have..

Also, to force a person to stay in a childless marraige, when they want children, is exceptionally cruel, as it goes against the basic primal motivation of humans, the primary purpose of marraige, and hence cannot be upheld as a correct thing to do..

That is what I think anyway..

Quote from haahoo

well, I dont often see women who bear guilt these days, they usually find someone else to blame..

Sure you do, sir. They're the ones wearing come-and-!#$%-me clothes, displaying self-defeating behavior and looking generally angry, because they are angry/disappointed/frustrated with themselves. Such is the fuel of feminism. No, its not the motivation. That's greed and envy. Their fuel, what keeps them going, is knowing they've screwed up so badly, they just have to keep going on this chosen path, in a blind and unproven hope that someday it will pay off and make everything OK.

Internal guilt is an emotional basis for action, which is about as far from logic as Slick Willy was from a gentleman (and yet women were the deciding vote in '92 and '96). Emotional decisions do not last unless the one deciding is irrational and refuses to see the logic of their erring ways. Sound like any class of female you ever met?

Women's gift is emotion, but they are horrible independent leaders, since they have no capacity to consistently, by design, make decisions with logic. So, of course you will see the internal guilt ooze out, usually from between their legs, in the form of exaggerated sexual advertising. Teasing, especially with the end of refusing gratification for the men who respond to such leading, as if to boost the female's hellish ego. Seen it a million times. This symptom is the outward manifestation of knowing you're wrong but being too proud to admit it, change it, or make whole the people you have harmed in the process. Females express many emotions through their sexuality, only a few of which are visible through intercourse.

Quote from fcb98292

Sure you do, sir. They're the ones wearing come-and-!#$%-me clothes, displaying self-defeating behavior and looking generally angry, because they are angry/disappointed/frustrated with themselves. Such is the fuel of feminism. No, its not the motivation. That's greed and envy. Their fuel, what keeps them going, is knowing they've screwed up so badly, they just have to keep going on this chosen path, in a blind and unproven hope that someday it will pay off and make everything OK.

Aye. I think such women see all the answers as coming from their abilities to get a "real man" who will sort all their problems out for them.. Since they have no other hope of attracting a "real man" they resort to what worked for them when they were 16.. Unfortunately, it neither worked then, nor will it now the are 29, but, that does not stop it being their only hope!

Internal guilt is an emotional basis for action, which is about as far from logic as Slick Willy was from a gentleman (and yet women were the deciding vote in '92 and '96). Emotional decisions do not last unless the one deciding is irrational and refuses to see the logic of their erring ways. Sound like any class of female you ever met?

Yip!

Women's gift is emotion, but they are horrible independent leaders, since they have no capacity to consistently, by design, make decisions with logic. So, of course you will see the internal guilt ooze out, usually from between their legs, in the form of exaggerated sexual advertising. Teasing, especially with the end of refusing gratification for the men who respond to such leading, as if to boost the female's hellish ego. Seen it a million times. This symptom is the outward manifestation of knowing you're wrong but being too proud to admit it, change it, or make whole the people you have harmed in the process. Females express many emotions through their sexuality, only a few of which are visible through intercourse.

aye

Well that was a fine whacking, Haahoo. My shoulders are well and truly bruised.

I have my faults like anyone else.

Well, not exactly. Some are real beauts. I am sure they are specific to me.

But with a little whacking from my friends, I am sure to improve.