The subject of porn is a very sensitive one for me. You said that if men had their needs fulfilled, many would not indulge in porn, and maybe this is so...but then again maybe not. I was married to someone who had his sexual needs and fantasies fulfilled in every way, and yet...he was as addicted to porn as he could be. To the extreme. And when I say "extreme", I do mean extreme. He had boxes and boxes of pornographic magazines, and he hid these everywhere in our home. They were in our attic (he put them there after promising me he'd get rid of them), but he also built a secret compartment in the garage to hide them in. He had magazines hidden in his van, he had magazines hidden inside our home, and these weren't "playboy" types of mags, they were hardcore porn of the raunchiest type imaginable. And it upset me to keep finding these literally everywhere. I remember finding magazines hidden in the leaf bag on our lawn mower. No, I'm not joking. I wish I was. He even took the time (when I was away grocery shopping and running errands) to take a hot glue gun and glue covers of "normal" magazines over the top of his porn magazines, so that he could have them laying about the house in plain sight and for awhile, this deception went undiscovered...until one day I just happened to pick up one of these "normal looking" mags because a cover article interested me, and when I opened it up, lo and behold...I discovered his dirty little secret. How many times I cried over this...he knew it hurt me. And each time he promised (once or twice with tears in his own eyes) that he was done with porn...and each and every single time without fail, after he promised all of it was gotten rid of, I'd find more. I never understood it. He wasn't deprived of anything sexually...ever.

And as his addiction to porn grew, so did his tendency toward liking more degrading sexual acts that included aggression, and eventually violence. Having pillows held down over my face while we engaged in intercourse, or having my neck squeezed with his hands, or him ejaculating on my face, became sources of great pleasure to him. It wasn't like that at the beginning of our marriage. His addiction to porn caused this. I am certain of it. And he couldn't give it up. And because he couldn't give it up, and back then I didn't understand that it was an addiction (same as any drug), I thought it was because I wasn't good enough for him. I thought I was ugly. It didn't help that he continuously compared me to women he saw in those magazines. (You know, the ones with the fake breasts)...There was nothing wrong with the way I looked (I know that now)...but back then, I was convinced that it was all about how unhappy he was with me sexually. I didn't understand that the problem was actually his. All I knew was that it hurt me, and I tried so hard to be everything he wanted me to be...even when it meant that my spirit, my soul was degraded and my self-esteem was completely gone. And eventually, this issue of porn ended up being one of the major reasons why we ended up divorced.

You don't have to be a feminist or an anti-feminist to have an opinion on porn and what it does to people's minds, bodies, and spirits. I have an opinion. I think it degrades both men and women, both supporters and haters of porn. Whoever indulges in it, and whoever's life is touched by it in any way, ends up feeling bad about themselves and dissatisfied with others. It's like an infectious disease.

On the point that porn replaces marriage or an ongoing relationship, yep. That's not to say that only single men look at porn but single men do get their fix from somewhere and feminism has made it unwise to get that fix from women.

Also, I can't count the number of times I have read that women who choose this line of work, love it.

Feminists need to realize that porn is, atleast in part, fueled by their actions.

Quote from Garak

On the point that porn replaces marriage or an ongoing relationship, yep. That's not to say that only single men look at porn but single men do get their fix from somewhere and feminism has made it unwise to get that fix from women.

Also, I can't count the number of times I have read that women who choose this line of work, love it.

Feminists need to realize that porn is, atleast in part, fueled by their actions.

I'm sorry, but I don't buy that. People's actions are their own choices. No one puts a gun to anyone's head and says "you must look at this," "you must buy this." Its a cop-out to blame feminism.

Great subject, wrong area - moved it to 'marriage' zone...

Now, my ex-wife used to complain about me viewing porn... but I know I had kinks she didn't like, so surely it was better to get that kink satisfied in a none personal environment (viewing porn) than to go and find another woman to fulfill it for me?

And in the BDSM scene, plenty feminists exist. You'd think it was just a job for some of the dominatrixes and such, but from what I've read, to many, it is a lifestyle choice - not just a 'career'.

My personal opinion: if two grown adults decide that porn is o.k. between them, then that's their business.

But if one indulges, and the other is upset by it, or if one feels his/her needs are not being fulfilled, it's a problem that needs to be worked out between them in order for the marriage to survive.

Quote from Brockus

I can imagine that many 'emasculated' men who would normally spend free time with model railroading, woodworking, or a sport, may find themselves with a 'hobby' called pornography.
.....
But the irony is that the feminist agenda is incompatible with marriage and male/female sexuality. But as a result the feminist have helped turn porn into its multi-billion dollar a year industry.
Comments?

I think many men, married or single does not matter, are looking for some pornography, men have various preferences about sexual relationship...in porno you get some ideas, what you could try out....what kind of woman you like...

Porno is not only for the straight men, there are pornos for gay men, lesbians...

I see nothing wrong with it...concerning the straight men looking at these pictures... they pay for it, and the women showing everything in these movies and pictures are getting paid, quite a lot btw....there is a huge number of women, who like to become a porno model and earn a considerable sum of money...
There are always more applicants than porno-producer can accept...

Feminists are a bit helpless about that all...some do not think, it's really wrong (women should have a choice for everything) - some are totally against it...but money is money.

Quote from TERA

The subject of porn is a very sensitive one for me. You said that if men had their needs fulfilled, many would not indulge in porn, and maybe this is so...but then again maybe not. I was married to someone who had his sexual needs and fantasies fulfilled in every way, and yet...he was as addicted to porn as he could be. To the extreme. And when I say "extreme", I do mean extreme. He had boxes and boxes of pornographic magazines, and he hid these everywhere in our home. They were in our attic (he put them there after promising me he'd get rid of them), but he also built a secret compartment in the garage to hide them in. He had magazines hidden in his van, he had magazines hidden inside our home, and these weren't "playboy" types of mags, they were hardcore porn of the raunchiest type imaginable. And it upset me to keep finding these literally everywhere. I remember finding magazines hidden in the leaf bag on our lawn mower. No, I'm not joking. I wish I was. He even took the time (when I was away grocery shopping and running errands) to take a hot glue gun and glue covers of "normal" magazines over the top of his porn magazines, so that he could have them laying about the house in plain sight and for awhile, this deception went undiscovered...until one day I just happened to pick up one of these "normal looking" mags because a cover article interested me, and when I opened it up, lo and behold...I discovered his dirty little secret. How many times I cried over this...he knew it hurt me. And each time he promised (once or twice with tears in his own eyes) that he was done with porn...and each and every single time without fail, after he promised all of it was gotten rid of, I'd find more. I never understood it. He wasn't deprived of anything sexually...ever.

And as his addiction to porn grew, so did his tendency toward liking more degrading sexual acts that included aggression, and eventually violence. Having pillows held down over my face while we engaged in intercourse, or having my neck squeezed with his hands, or him ejaculating on my face, became sources of great pleasure to him. It wasn't like that at the beginning of our marriage. His addiction to porn caused this. I am certain of it. And he couldn't give it up. And because he couldn't give it up, and back then I didn't understand that it was an addiction (same as any drug), I thought it was because I wasn't good enough for him. I thought I was ugly. It didn't help that he continuously compared me to women he saw in those magazines. (You know, the ones with the fake breasts)...There was nothing wrong with the way I looked (I know that now)...but back then, I was convinced that it was all about how unhappy he was with me sexually. I didn't understand that the problem was actually his. All I knew was that it hurt me, and I tried so hard to be everything he wanted me to be...even when it meant that my spirit, my soul was degraded and my self-esteem was completely gone. And eventually, this issue of porn ended up being one of the major reasons why we ended up divorced.

You don't have to be a feminist or an anti-feminist to have an opinion on porn and what it does to people's minds, bodies, and spirits. I have an opinion. I think it degrades both men and women, both supporters and haters of porn. Whoever indulges in it, and whoever's life is touched by it in any way, ends up feeling bad about themselves and dissatisfied with others. It's like an infectious disease.

Hi Tera,

I was very interested to hear how porn` played a part in the destruction of your marriage.


Robert.

Quote from Marx

Now, my ex-wife used to complain about me viewing porn... but I know I had kinks she didn't like, so surely it was better to get that kink satisfied in a none personal environment (viewing porn) than to go and find another woman to fulfill it for me?

And in the BDSM scene, plenty feminists exist. You'd think it was just a job for some of the dominatrixes and such, but from what I've read, to many, it is a lifestyle choice - not just a 'career'.

Sounds like a vanilla relationship. Same goes here different kinks but my wife is totally okay with me consuming porns

Quote from TERA

My personal opinion: if two grown adults decide that porn is o.k. between them, then that's their business.

But if one indulges, and the other is upset by it, or if one feels his/her needs are not being fulfilled, it's a problem that needs to be worked out between them in order for the marriage to survive.

I don´t think so. For most of the men porn = masturbation. Even if you are in a marriage there is sth like the right to love yourself. I believe everybody has the right to fullfill his sexual desires (to a certain extend, your marriage was really extreme). And I believe there is a little bias going on. Could it be that media sees male masturbation and watching porn as something dirty while women masturbating while using their "mental cinema" is something beautiful?

Quote from Feckless

Sounds like a vanilla relationship. Same goes here different kinks but my wife is totally okay with me consuming porns



I don´t think so. For most of the men porn = masturbation. Even if you are in a marriage there is sth like the right to love yourself. I believe everybody has the right to fullfill his sexual desires (to a certain extend, your marriage was really extreme). And I believe there is a little bias going on. Could it be that media sees male masturbation and watching porn as something dirty while women masturbating while using their "mental cinema" is something beautiful?

I found your comment about the bias interesting and I hadn't really thought about it before. You may be right.

I'm not a prude, and I don't think there's anything wrong with masturbation. But, on the other hand, if a person is involved in a relationship/marriage, and masturbation or pornography becomes a third entity in that relationship- and a frequent substitute for physical intimacy with the one you're with, someone's going to get hurt.

Toward the end of my marriage, this is what it became. And the impact was devastating to the relationship.

Quote from TERA

I'm sorry, but I don't buy that. People's actions are their own choices. No one puts a gun to anyone's head and says "you must look at this," "you must buy this." Its a cop-out to blame feminism.

Feminism discourages male biological urges. Make sense now?

Quote from Garak

Feminism discourages male biological urges. Make sense now?

No, I'm confused by it, and I'll be the first to admit it. On one hand, I hear people saying that feminism discourages male biological urges, on the other hand, I hear people saying that along with female sexual liberation had come the sexual liberation of males, as well. Easier sex, more frequent sex, promiscuity. Even within feminism itself, you have one camp that says porn is "empowering," and another that says that porn is degrading. Perhaps it isn't one or the other, or is it both?

And so maybe, it really isn't about feminism as much as it is about personal choices and responsibility. There are those who engage in promiscuity, and those who abstain. There are those who indulge in porn, and those who choose not to. And if you ask people about their choices, I'm willing to bet that feminism plays little to no part in those decisions. They are personal decisions, based on personal values and beliefs, and those values and beliefs are going to vary from person to person, whether they identify with or against feminism.

All I'm saying is, not everything that's wrong with this world can be laid on the doorstep of feminism. To believe that it is, takes personal responsibility for choices made, out of the equation.

Quote from TERA

I found your comment about the bias interesting and I hadn't really thought about it before. You may be right.

I'm not a prude, and I don't think there's anything wrong with masturbation. But, on the other hand, if a person is involved in a relationship/marriage, and masturbation or pornography becomes a third entity in that relationship- and a frequent substitute for physical intimacy with the one you're with, someone's going to get hurt.

Toward the end of my marriage, this is what it became. And the impact was devastating to the relationship.

Of course to a certain extend. I think it is normal to expect men are masturbating while women are better at hiding it, or not being expected to do so (but do it as well of course). I don´t think you have to talk with your partner about masturbation as well. It is sth you do with yourself. My wife showed me a post on a pregnancy forum that cracked us both up. There was this women who found the porn collection of his man and argued that he was cheating on her. Oooooh my.

It can feel like cheating to the one who's feeling neglected, ignored, degraded, Feckless. It depends on the circumstances. If porn or masturbation has replaced physical intimacy between two people in a relationship, it can feel like cheating. That's what I meant by a "third entity" in the relationship.

Quote from TERA

No, I'm confused by it, and I'll be the first to admit it. On one hand, I hear people saying that feminism discourages male biological urges, on the other hand, I hear people saying that along with female sexual liberation had come the sexual liberation of males, as well. Easier sex, more frequent sex, promiscuity. Even within feminism itself, you have one camp that says porn is "empowering," and another that says that porn is degrading. Perhaps it isn't one or the other, it is both?

And so maybe, it really isn't about feminism as much as it is about personal choices and responsibility. There are those who engage in promiscuity, and those who abstain. There are those who indulge in porn, and those who choose not to. And if you ask people about their choices, I'm willing to bet that feminism plays little to no part in those decisions. They are personal decisions, based on personal values and beliefs, and those values and beliefs are going to vary from person to person, whether they identify with or against feminism.

All I'm saying is, not everything that's wrong with this world can be laid on the doorstep of feminism. To believe that it is, takes personal responsibility for choices made, out of the equation.

Female liberation may help the horny one night standers but it has harmed men who want a family. For men who don't want one night stands (for various reasons including how financially risky it has become) have two choices:

1) Try to find a long term western woman (unlikely, feminism has made western women highly unstable and risky)

2) Porn (the risks are gone)

There is the 3rd option of abstinence but that option would be so rarely used it isn't really worth considering.

For a single male, porn can go far in satisfying his sexual needs (though granted, not all the way) without the risk of financial ruin. I suspect this is why feminists oppose porn.

I don't, for one second, believe that feminists oppose it because it objectifies women. Sex is a cash cow for women.