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A Man's Right to Choose?

This is a discussion on A Man's Right to Choose? within the Marriage, Children, C4M forums, part of the Men's talk category; Originally Posted by Time Online Edition A Man's Right to Choose? A new lawsuit asks whether men should be allowed ...


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  #1  
Old 18th-March-2006
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A Man's Right to Choose?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Time Online Edition
A Man's Right to Choose?
A new lawsuit asks whether men should be allowed to get "a financial abortion" in cases of unplanned pregnancies.

Should a man be forced to be a father if he doesn't want to be? Yet another front in the abortion wars reopens now that the National Center for Men has undertaken a crusade to establish a "Roe v. Wade for Men." "Up until now, reproductive choice has been seen as a woman's issue: you're either pro-life or pro-choice," says center Director Mel Feit. "We're adding another element. If we expect men to be responsible, isn't it right to give them some choices too?"

It's a legal stunt, but as a way of calling attention to double standards and unintended consequences, the campaign makes sense. Matt Dubay, a 25-year-old computer programmer in Michigan, was ordered to pay child support after his former girlfriend had a baby. He says he had made it clear when they were dating that he did not want to have children; she had said she couldn't get pregnant anyway because of a medical condition. When she did get pregnant, he argues, she could have chosen to have an abortion. So shouldn't he have a choice as well, about whether to support a child he never wanted to have?

Dubay and the center filed a lawsuit in U.S. District Court, which raises all kinds of confounding questions about rights and choice and what we really mean by equality, when we look at the social and biological roles played by men and women in the course of becoming parents. Feit argues that within a short window of time after discovering an unplanned pregnancy — he has proposed a month, but thinks a week might even be more appropriate — a man should have the right to terminate his legal and financial obligations to the child. "I'm not talking about fathers opting out of obligations that they've committed to," Feit says. "I mean early in pregnancy, if contraception failed, men should have a choice, and women have a right to know what that choice is as they decide how to proceed."

His argument gains force as more and more states pass laws requiring, as part of pre-abortion counseling, that pregnant women be informed that the baby's father has a legal obligation to pay child support. These rules were a response to evidence that the overwhelming majority of women seeking abortions do so for social and economic rather than medical reasons. Abortion opponents hope that by informing women about the legal and financial support systems available to them, including the father's obligations, they might reduce the number who choose abortion.

But solving one problem may just be creating another: pregnancy counselors find that another great source of pressure on ambivalent women is often the father of the child. As states crack down on "deadbeat dads," men have a greater financial incentive to pressure women into ending unwanted pregnancies. Some threaten to break up with their partner if she doesn't get an abortion. There is concern that violence against pregnant women is fueled by men trying to avoid a financial liability. So Dubay could argue that allowing men to shed their financial obligations for unwanted children might protect women from all kinds of pressure when they are deciding how to handle an unplanned pregnancy.

The larger philosophical argument is basically this: Do men have as much of a right to control their reproductive lives and financial futures as women do? "Roe v. Wade really changed the world for women," Feit says. "It allowed them to separate intimacy from procreation, freed them from the fear of contraceptive failure. That kind of empowerment and security that women feel in intimate relations — well, men can't, frankly." The only sure protection is total abstinence. Feit contends that men who don't want to have a child and made reasonable efforts to avoid it should at least be able to choose a "financial abortion" that frees them from any responsibility for the baby.

In a sense women already have a version of that right: Most states have laws permitting a woman to relinquish all her parental responsibilities if she leaves a baby at a hospital after giving birth. "No shame. No blame. No names" says the poster on the bus shelter. Naturally such laws are designed to offer an alternative to the heartbreaking stories we read of babies dumped in trash cans and abandoned by the side of the road.

The rights of fathers have always been the background noise of the abortion debate. Beginning with Planned Parenthood v. Danforth in 1976, then in Planned Parenthood v. Casey in 1992, state efforts to require that fathers be notified before women have abortions were struck down by the Supreme Court as placing too great a burden on women. A majority of Americans approve of spousal notification, provided there are exceptions for women in abusive situations, and when he was an appeals court judge Sam Alito upheld such a provision. But the Supreme Court ruled in Casey that "it cannot be claimed that the father's interest in the fetus' welfare is equal to the mother's protected liberty...." Requiring a woman to notify her husband before an abortion, the Justices argued, "embodies a view of marriage" that is "repugnant to this court's present understanding of marriage and of the nature of the rights secured by the Constitution."

Wanda Franz, president of National Right to Life, is glad to see Dubay's case calling attention to the mixed messages society sends to men. "He's basically saying that a woman now has the right to engage in sex relations without worrying about having a child she's responsible for. He wants the same right — to be able to have sex with a woman and if she gets pregnant, he shouldn't have to be responsible, since he can't force her to have an abortion legally."

Franz says that she is, of course, in favor of both parents' taking responsibility for a child, an impulse that she says legal abortion has undermined. One obvious problem, if men can sever their financial ties to unwanted children, is what becomes of that child, particularly as states cut back on health care and social services. "What I expect to hear [from the court] is that the way things are is not really fair, but that's the way it is," Dubay told the Associated Press. "Just to create awareness would be enough, to at least get a debate started."

Still, Feit has been surprised by the response he's gotten so far. "It doesn't break down along traditional gender lines," he says. "We're getting so much support from women." The men divide roughly half and half between those who support what he's doing and those who say essentially "be a man; accept responsibility." "Women seem more supportive, which is very surprising and gratifying. They say maybe this is fair, men should have some say, some choice. I'm getting more support from women than I anticipated." He is the first to say that these are not easy questions. So sometimes just asking them is the right place to start.
I found this via mensactivism.org[/b]








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  #2  
Old 4th-June-2006
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Dads: No cash for unwanted children

A similar article, but something stood out to me in this as I flash read it.

Quote:
Dads: No cash for unwanted children

In lawsuit, activists argue if women have right to decide fate of fetus, fathers can decline financial role.
David Shepardson and Eric Lacy / The Detroit News

A national men's rights group plans to file a federal lawsuit this morning in U.S. District Court in Detroit, claiming that fathers have the legal right to opt out of the financial responsibilities of supporting a child they didn't want -- in a claim they dub "Roe v. Wade for Men."

A Troy lawyer for the New York-based National Center for Men said he will file a long-shot lawsuit on behalf of 25-year-old Matt Dubay of Saginaw that seeks an order declaring the Michigan Paternity Act unconstitutional. Dubay recently was ordered to pay support for his 8-month-old daughter.

In 2004, Dubay, a computer technician, began dating a woman who worked in cell phone sales. He said she told him she couldn't get pregnant -- because she was using contraception and had physical conditions that prevented her from getting pregnant.

After three months, they stopped dating -- but soon afterward, she told him she was pregnant.

"It's just not fair. She has options in this. As a man, I have no options and am forced to live with her choices," Dubay said Wednesday night. "I was up front. I was clear that I didn't want to be a father and she reassured me that she was incapable of getting pregnant."

After learning of the pregnancy, they discussed adoption.

"I was trying to talk reason, to try and have a two-way conversation. She considered an adoption but then quickly stopped listening," Dubay said.

So he researched the issue and found the National Center for Men in New York, which agreed to take his case.

"The whole issue is, she made the decision based knowing that I wasn't going to be there for the child in any part and she said she could raise the child on her own," Dubay said.

Troy lawyer Jeffrey A. Cojocar, who is filing the lawsuit for the National Center for Men, acknowledged it will be an uphill battle.

"No one is denying this is going to be difficult. But we want the law applied equally between sexes. They each should have a say about a child's future," Cojocar said.

Women's organizations oppose the lawsuit because it leaves the child and mother to fend for themselves.

"This is ridiculous," said Leslie Sorkhe, director of operations for the Association for Children for Enforcement of Support. "This is about the child, a child that needs the emotional as well as the financial support of both parents. The child is entitled to his or her equal protection under the law."

Renee Beeker of Milford, legislative vice president for National Organization for Women's Michigan chapter, says the lawsuit implies that the burden of pregnancy prevention is solely on the woman.

"In the event of an unintended pregnancy, the needs of the child must be met," Beeker said.

The National Center for Men and its president don't want to be able to force women to have abortions or give up a child for adoption. They want to be able to go into court before a child is born and renounce parenting responsibilities -- and 18 years of child support.

"More than three decades ago, Roe v. Wade gave women control of their reproductive lives but nothing in the law changed for men. Women now have control of their lives after an unplanned conception," said Mel Feit, the group's director. "But men are routinely forced to give up control, forced to be financially responsible for choices only women are permitted to make, forced to relinquish reproductive choice as the price of intimacy."

Cojocar admits that courts across the United States have routinely thrown out lawsuits by fathers who claimed women committed fraud by lying about taking precautions to avoid getting pregnant. Those courts have typically found a greater state interest in ensuring that minor children are supported. This claim is different in that it cites the U.S. Constitution's equal protection clause.

But, the men's group says it should be more than biology.

"We will argue that, at a time of reproductive freedom for women, fatherhood must be more than a matter of DNA," Feit said. "A man must choose to be a father in the same way that a woman chooses to be a mother."

Saginaw County Circuit Judge Patrick McGraw recently ordered Dubay to pay $475 a month -- plus half of all health care expenses for the baby girl, Cojocar said.

He sold his dream car, a 1998 Trans Am, and took in a roommate to stretch his budget so he can begin to make child support payments next month. He has seen his daughter once -- when he took a DNA test to establish paternity.

The child's mother didn't return calls seeking comment.

Michigan Attorney General Mike Cox, who has made collecting unpaid child support a top issue, said fathers must support their children, regardless of the circumstances of the births.

"If the subject is child support, our focus should be on children, not on squabbles between the parents," Cox said. His office has collected more than $23 million in child support, his office will announce today.

Michigan parents owe more than $7 billion in unpaid child support -- part of the $100 billion owed nationwide by parents who fail to support their children.

Legal experts say a ruling allowing men to opt out of support could open a Pandora's box, forcing the state to pick up the difference to support children of single parents.



The planned suit names the girl's mother, who is 20, and the Saginaw County prosecutor as defendants.
I didnt' read all of this article, as I knew pretty much what it consisted of, but having read this part:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leslie Sorkhe, director of operations for the Association for Children for Enforcement of Support.
This is ridiculous, This is about the child, a child that needs the emotional as well as the financial support of both parents. The child is entitled to his or her equal protection under the law.
I can't help but wonder, since when have organisations pertaining to monetary input from Fathers shown the slightest interest in promoting the 'emotional' support, as well as the financial? Never, not once, have I heard any group suggest that emotional support from a Father is equally as necessary to a child. But here we have a guy saying he wants an 'equal' choice - and suddenly, the child's emotional wellbeing is brought up! Amazing!








Out of the gloom a voice spake unto me. 'Smile and be happy, Things could get worse."
So I smiled and was happy, and behold... Things did get worse.




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Please use the TAGS to help organise the content - found at the bottom of every thread
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  #3  
Old 3rd-October-2006
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Re: A Man's Right to Choose?

That's good and it's fair. I hope they succeed.


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~ A man needs a woman like a lion needs a stove. ~

~ Women deserve only equal opportunity, not equal outcomes. ~

~ Men are not collectively "guilty" of anything. ~

~ Never needing to be pregnant is a blessing. ~

~ Feminist ideology “men have to respect women, but women have no reason to respect men” ~

~ Everybody makes choices, and nobody should be entitled to special treatment because of those choices.
Equal results based on unequal treatment amounts to no kind of equality at all. ~
 
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