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  1. #1
    Member Since
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Posts
    9

    Polygraph for the Defense

    I am a polygraph expert in Los Angeles. Over the years, I have tested quite a few men who had been accused of rape or sexual assault. Because of my credentials (Ph.D. in Psychology, published research, former university professor) many of the people who passed my tests were given the benefit of the doubt by the prosecution. In some cases charges were dismissed or not filed at all. Recently I testified in a trial in Ohio about a test I gave the defendant, who was accused of sexual assault. At the end of the trial, he was acquitted.

    Almost every allegation of rape or sexual assault presents a "he said-she said" situation. When a man is accused of rape, and says that the sex was consentual, there is no argument as to whether there was sex. The physical evidence is almost irrelevant. In such a case, a properly administered polygraph test may be the only piece of objective scientific evidence supporting the defendant.

    Many accusations of rape are false. There are many reasons for this, but a falsely accused man should not have to spend the rest of his life in prison if he is truly innocent. Much of the time, a polygraph exam is the only way prove his innocence.

    If anyone would like more information, feel free to visit my website and call or email.

    Louis Rovner, Ph.D.
    [possible spam deleted by admin]
    Last edited by Marx; 12th-August-2009 at 12:42 AM.

  2. #2
    Member Since
    Feb 2006
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    12,351

    Re: Polygraph for the Defense

    You have some very interesting credentials which might prove to be most insightful.

    Have a good peruse of the forum, and make use of the search facility for pertinent subject matter.

    Welcome to the forum.
    The wicked flee when none pursueth. Proverbs 28:1

    'Rise like Lions after slumber In unvanquishable number - Shake your chains to earth like dew Which in sleep had fallen on you - Ye are many - they are few.'

    Percy Bysshe Shelley

    "When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty. "
    Thomas Jefferson

    The internet has been a lifeboat for men's opposition to the floodings of feminism.
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  3. #3
    RebelliousVanilla's Avatar
    RebelliousVanilla is offline Established Member
    Member Since
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    3,676

    Re: Polygraph for the Defense

    Welcome. What happens if both the accuser and accused pass the test though?

  4. #4
    Member Since
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Posts
    9

    Re: Polygraph for the Defense

    If both the accuser and the accused pass their polygraph tests, one of their results is in error. Mistakes are generally due to a polygraph examiner using inferior techniques or just being plain incompetent. This is why it is so important to do your due diligence before choosing an examiner. Just like doctors and lawyers, not all polygraph examiners are equally skilled.

    Dr. Rovner

  5. #5
    Incognito's Avatar
    Incognito is offline Established Member
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    Re: Polygraph for the Defense

    How reliable are polygraph tests?

    Sociopaths can probably pass even when guilty...

    A person with an overly developed conscience might fail even when innocent..

    How often does such a thing occur, and how can we be certain?

    Do you ever test the same subject more than once? Have you ever tested the same subject more than one time and got conflicting results?

    This interests me...I have a strong interest in criminal justice.

    "Civilization can only revive when there shall come into being in a number of individuals a new tone of mind, independent of the prevalent one among the crowds, and in opposition to it- a tone of mind which will gradually win influence over the collective one, and in the end determine its character. Only an ethical movement can rescue us from barbarism, and the ethical comes into existence only in individuals."

    "Until he extends his circle of compassion to include all living things, man will not himself find peace."
    -Albert Schweitzer

  6. #6
    Member Since
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Posts
    9

    Re: Polygraph for the Defense

    TERA,

    There is quite a bit of published scientific research about your questions. To begin with, we've known since the 1970s that psychopaths and sociopaths are not capable of "beating" a polygraph test. This may be counterintuitive, but it's true.

    Also, a skilled examiner using a validated testing technique (the Utah Zone of Comparison Test is the best) will be accurate as much as 96% of the time. That number has been demonstrated in published research with psychopaths and normal subjects.

    Dr. Rovner

  7. #7
    Incognito's Avatar
    Incognito is offline Established Member
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    Re: Polygraph for the Defense

    Quote Quote from Polygraph Doctor View Post
    TERA,

    There is quite a bit of published scientific research about your questions. To begin with, we've known since the 1970s that psychopaths and sociopaths are not capable of "beating" a polygraph test. This may be counterintuitive, but it's true.

    Also, a skilled examiner using a validated testing technique (the Utah Zone of Comparison Test is the best) will be accurate as much as 96% of the time. That number has been demonstrated in published research with psychopaths and normal subjects.

    Dr. Rovner
    Thanks for your reply!

    So why aren't polygraphs used more often if they are 96% accurate?

    "Civilization can only revive when there shall come into being in a number of individuals a new tone of mind, independent of the prevalent one among the crowds, and in opposition to it- a tone of mind which will gradually win influence over the collective one, and in the end determine its character. Only an ethical movement can rescue us from barbarism, and the ethical comes into existence only in individuals."

    "Until he extends his circle of compassion to include all living things, man will not himself find peace."
    -Albert Schweitzer

  8. #8
    RebelliousVanilla's Avatar
    RebelliousVanilla is offline Established Member
    Member Since
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    3,676

    Re: Polygraph for the Defense

    I think I'd have to take a polygraph test a few times just to not be nervous because of taking it, not because I'm lying. lol

  9. #9
    shaazam's Avatar
    shaazam is offline Established Member
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    Re: Polygraph for the Defense

    Quote Quote from Polygraph Doctor View Post
    I am a polygraph expert in Los Angeles. Over the years, I have tested quite a few men who had been accused of rape or sexual assault. Because of my credentials (Ph.D. in Psychology, published research, former university professor) many of the people who passed my tests were given the benefit of the doubt by the prosecution. In some cases charges were dismissed or not filed at all. Recently I testified in a trial in Ohio about a test I gave the defendant, who was accused of sexual assault. At the end of the trial, he was acquitted.

    Almost every allegation of rape or sexual assault presents a "he said-she said" situation. When a man is accused of rape, and says that the sex was consentual, there is no argument as to whether there was sex. The physical evidence is almost irrelevant. In such a case, a properly administered polygraph test may be the only piece of objective scientific evidence supporting the defendant.

    Many accusations of rape are false. There are many reasons for this, but a falsely accused man should not have to spend the rest of his life in prison if he is truly innocent. Much of the time, a polygraph exam is the only way prove his innocence.

    If anyone would like more information, feel free to visit my website and call or email.

    Louis Rovner, Ph.D.
    [possible spam deleted by admin]
    "" there is no argument as to whether there was sex. The physical evidence is almost irrelevant. In such a case, a properly administered polygraph test may be the only piece of objective scientific evidence supporting the defendant.""

    great stuff but why not polygraph the accusing wimyn most who are natural born liars - eg Duke Lacrosse

  10. #10
    TheDude's Avatar
    TheDude is offline Established Member
    Member Since
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    539

    Re: Polygraph for the Defense

    Hmm, guys, this is just a guy doing SEO-promotion for his website.

  11. #11
    CaptDMO's Avatar
    CaptDMO is offline Established Member
    Member Since
    Dec 2005
    Location
    New Hampshire USA
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    831

    Re: Polygraph for the Defense

    Sorry.
    With so much of polygraph measurements reliant on "interpretation" when co-examined
    against interrogation, In My Humble Opinion-while useful, they are by no means
    worthy as prima facie "evidence". Personally, I put more faith in voice stress.

    Much as the magic of television has dangerously hyped DNA as a magic witness, while
    it is , in fact, no such thing, there have been enough issues with the Tee Vee
    romanticized Polygraph(...a skilled examiner using a validated testing technique.. was not lost on me) that I hope we can agree to consider them a tool, but never ASSUME conclusive.

    I don't care HOW many years of experience (ie.)a police officer has operated a radar speed gun, or "operated" a BAC breathalyser, the human factor in collecting, and subsequently reporting, evidence is known to be subject to false, biased, or misinterpreted "facts".

    Recently I testified in a trial in Ohio about a test I gave the defendant, who was accused of sexual assault. At the end of the trial, he was acquitted.
    (unrelated I suppose)
    Let me know if ANY of the cases that were acquitted, due to your expert testimony, resulted in the accuser being subsequently charged with, found guilty of, and actually sentenced to prison for (any variation of) False Accusation/Abuse of "special" laws. THEN I'll be encouraged.

  12. #12
    Member Since
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Posts
    9

    Re: Polygraph for the Defense

    I didn't intend my post to start a discussion of the efficacy of polygraph testing. In the very real and unfortunate situations in which someone is unfairly accused of a crime he did not commit, we should be open to any and all proven scientific techniques that might keep an innocent man out of prison.

  13. #13
    rohara's Avatar
    rohara is offline RIP Thomas Ball
    Member Since
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Northern Va.
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    2,029

    Re: Polygraph for the Defense

    Quote Quote from Polygraph Doctor View Post
    I am a polygraph expert in Los Angeles. Over the years, I have tested quite a few men who had been accused of rape or sexual assault. Because of my credentials (Ph.D. in Psychology, published research, former university professor) many of the people who passed my tests were given the benefit of the doubt by the prosecution. In some cases charges were dismissed or not filed at all. Recently I testified in a trial in Ohio about a test I gave the defendant, who was accused of sexual assault. At the end of the trial, he was acquitted.

    Almost every allegation of rape or sexual assault presents a "he said-she said" situation. When a man is accused of rape, and says that the sex was consentual, there is no argument as to whether there was sex. The physical evidence is almost irrelevant. In such a case, a properly administered polygraph test may be the only piece of objective scientific evidence supporting the defendant.

    Many accusations of rape are false. There are many reasons for this, but a falsely accused man should not have to spend the rest of his life in prison if he is truly innocent. Much of the time, a polygraph exam is the only way prove his innocence.

    If anyone would like more information, feel free to visit my website and call or email.

    Louis Rovner, Ph.D.
    [possible spam deleted by admin]

    How do you feel about administering a polygraph test for the accusers?
    Do not ever suppose that a small group of people can never change the world. INDEED it is the only thing that ever has.

    Anonymous.

  14. #14
    paul parmenter's Avatar
    paul parmenter is offline Established Member
    Member Since
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Norfolk
    Posts
    996

    Re: Polygraph for the Defense

    I have long had the impression that when the polygraph says a man is telling the truth, that is not treated as hard evidence of innocence, but as a factor that the judge/jury may or may not take into account. But when the polygraph says he is lying, that is taken as hard evidence - in effect proof of guilt. Which is precisely why I would never agree to taking such a test - you can only lose by it, you can never win.

    Am I correct?

    Another point. 96% accuracy is still not good enough. You will still not know if the individual case you are looking at falls within the 96% or the 4% where the reading is wrong.

    Would you take a pill if you were told there was a 4% chance it would kill you? I would want that chance to be way down there as close to rock-bottom zero as possible before I would even dream of taking it.

  15. #15
    Member Since
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Posts
    9

    Re: Polygraph for the Defense

    rohara,

    Yes, I have tested people who made accusations and I see no reason not to.


 

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