Hello everyone. My name's Daniel, and about 21 years of age.
I stumbled across this site when one day I was greatly angered by reading comments online that was as you can guess biased against males, socially and culturally. So I tried to seek out whether my feelings and opinions on this matter could be justified which is how I came here.

I've always subconsciously felt that there was a bias against males, my instincts always told me so, I just couldn't and still can't articulate these thoughts properly because of my lack of proper knowledge to back it all up.

I find it refreshing to read some of the posts here by some of your members because it's like finding a book with hands that tears things out of your mind and lays it down as text so clear.

My intentions of joining this site is to learn more and to participate with discussions. Also to - well... find some comfort too.

I'll have to make it clear though that I'm not as extreme in my views as some of the views here are (or seem). Culturally and religiously I'll have a different perspective than most people here because of me being asian and a muslim too.

With all that said I hope I can fit in here well and contribute as a member.

Me too. I'd see it, but figure as no one seemed to acknowledge it whatsoever, either no one cared or I was imagining it. Nowadays, either several thousands of men and women are also imagining it - or I was right.

Welcome. We need input from males your age. Post much and post often!

Wow! Fascinating. It will be enjoyable to read your opinions.

Willkommen, looking forward to what you have to say.

Oh btw you micht want to check out the warcraft file (a huge link list / the link is in my Signature)

Welcome Dan.

Thanks for the welcome guys.

@feckless: Thanks, I'm checking them out right now.

I'm sure you'll fit in just fine.

Also, not to be so presumptuous, but there's a number of in-depth informative threads that debunks 'much' of feminisms claims that muslim women are oppressed - as the general masses are led to believe (just use the search facility and type in key words).

I'm pretty surprised to hear that at all!

Really, it is hard to believe that there can be any kind of debunking of this happening from the west in any form whatsoever! It always seems to me that our humanity is always percieved as less than the rest of the world - our men, our society, our lifestyle. This view that our women in it are shackled unwillingly (if only they could escape!) to our patriarchal society and are constantly under fear and threat is a load of BS. I won't deny that there are cases in which these views are true but nowhere near the exaggerated levels that feminists and the media claim.

My family is traditional and conservative, we have a huge extended family, some of whom live in those typical mud houses with a well and small farm, and some of whom live in really big houses with furniture and modern technology - in general I'm acquainted to a broad spectrum of classes and corners of life. Not to mention my friends and other classmates that I've known - point is I know our culture and life very well. I have noticed that family life tends to be happier and much more stable in the poorer families. I have not once ever smelled a hint of the kind of widespread oppression in any of these corners at all in my life - ever. I'm not saying that it doesn't exist, I'm actually sure it does, but I only hear such things on TV - 30 times more on western television.

The biggest problem feminists have is about our romantic life. Dating in our society is taboo, it's a totally alien concept to us, it's looked down upon for both men and women. Adultery is beyond rare. However the media in general seems to insinuate that women mainly suffer under arranged marriages - eh!? If you're gonna make such silly claim then at least acknowledge that us men too are obliged under this norm! They don't understand that the women are allowed to reject a potential candidate for marriage in most cases. For a man it's not easy either to make an impressionable marriage offer, you're judged on whether you have a good job, good salary, good family, good looks, good character, good first impressions (women only on looks and family) - and you're competing with other and possibly better men. The only way the roles would be reversed in being sought after is if you're incredibly rich. From my personal view I'd say it's about fair.

My uncle (mother's brother) has been asking to get married for a couple of years now, and my mother is the one telling my grandfather to reject his wishes because his education isn't good enough and neither is he mature enough to get married.

Feminists seem to think that all this is only maintained and supported by the men in our society - hah! Daughters have their fathers wrapped around their little fingers. Our mothers are highly involed in maintaining this status quo much more so than our fathers who step in when worst comes to worse. Mothers are highly important in muslim families, it is almost guaranteed that they will have the loyalty of their sons. I can't count the number of times times my own mother asking and probing me about whether I had a girlfriend or not, she's made it sternly clear to me about her thoughts. Even in extreme cases there are stories about mothers complicit in kidnapping their daughters and forcing them in marriage. My mother or my aunts or whoever, would sometimes say stuff like "No woman would want to marry if you're like this or that or not enough etc.", and to my sister when she's being difficult "who would want to have a wife like you!" - fathers don't say such stuff.As you can see this is a widely accepted cultural and social structure equally by both men and woman.

I suppose occurrences of rows geting physical are more prevalent than in most western societies, I won't defend that it is right at all, but these are a) rarer than you think b) these moments don't paint the picture of the rest of these women's lives, and c) it's just spousal spats gone really bad. The media uses extreme examples to understand the society at large which is a false impression.

Generally in terms of relations between the genders, things aren't terrible; could be improved certainly. We have many issues to sort out in our societies, but gender relations aren't really high on that list. The biggest problem in our society is not women's rights but political issues; talking about something as small as women's rights does not come close to our political problems first and foremost, and after that I'd say education (if we fix these problems I bet it will dispel a lot of claims that feminists have without focusing on women specifically). We're far from perfect but purely from my point of view as a european muslim witnessing both east and west, I think that domestic life is far superior in average muslim (or you could just say asian) families than that of the average western family - this is only from my personal point of view.

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Isn't it a serious no-no in Islam to insult or defame The Prophet Mohammed (peace be upon him)? And then claim the accusations are backed by The Koran and The Hadith?

There's no law saying that you can't, however it's extremely rude to do such a thing. Islam is not viewed in the same way as the west views Christianity, faith is not just a private matter, the foundations of society's values, ettiquette, ethics and are grounded in Islam and referenced thoroughly back to Muhammad (pbuh) his behaviour and lifestyle. Insulting Muhammad you've pretty much insulted everything that we stand for.

Referring back to the Danish cartoons debacle, muslims feeling outraged is understandable but we certainly took things too far in our reactions. Muslims societies aren't used to such brazen insults happening in such a manner like the way the Christians face the insults against Jesus - we don't agree with that either.

I like to make the point of distinguishing between 'insults' and 'criticism' because 'defame' would include both. Criticism is totally legitimate even though we won't like it (who does?), but doing it in an insulting 'manner' wouldn't get you any points in an Islamic society. We're still highly sesitive about such personal issues. If muslims can't take criticism then that is cetainly a problem that needs to be addressed. Failure to react properly to such stuff is a cultural problem that needs to be fixed.

I don't know what you mean by backing up accusations with the Qur'an and hadith. Do you mean by saying that 'defaming' is a legitimate thing to do by referring to specific points in the text that say "you are allowed to defame", or do you mean just simply backing up your arguments? If it's backing up your arguments I say why not, but if it's backing up 'insults' I think it'd be irrelevent.

It is indeed a problem if we can't take serious criticism in an appropriate manner, one of many societal problems (You won't see me getting very hostile) - feminism isn't one of them... yet.

Welcome, and very interesting to hear things from a Muslim perspective.

Yes indeed, A different perspective.

May I ask what sort of Muslim you are? I am lead to understand thare are various strands that sometimes do not see eye to eye on many quite serious matters.

One of my favourite Poets was a Sufi. Omar Khayyam. The Rubaiyat. He has quite a different perspective too. His 'elegy' on all faiths is serene and cheerful, even contented, with just a touch of melancholy but lacking any distress at the fates of Man. That is Housman's view at any rate and I share it. I am a touch more critical of 'The Potter', but then maybe that's just the effect of His shakey hands on forming me !

Err... rather hard to explain without being forced into going into too much detail because of the various misconsceptions to the western eye. Saying a simple category won't be enough to explain my 'position' - but if that's what you want me to say, the group I belong to, I'm a Sunni of the Hanafi school of thought. There are four main schools of thought, however there's not much differentiating them from each other at all and muslims regardless of which school of thought they belong to listen to whomever that's knowledgable.

Then there are the Salafis and the Wahhabis who also fall under the Sunni banner. They are markedly more stern than the others and more extreme than the others. A lot of arab tribal traditions exist within them. Again, there are very little differentiations, those who belong to the four main schools of thought will listen even to the salafis and the wahhabis of those who are knowledgable.

These mainly exist so to keep from extensive variations of faith from happening.

The wahhabis and salafis exist because the mainstream sunni schools of thought have included too many traditional elements that did not exist during the time of Muhammad - and I agree with them, but at the same time I don't agree with their patronising attitude to the other schools of thought nor their irrational extremities eg. they've been cutting down trees recently that the prophet himself planted during his time, out of fear that people will begin to put an unhealthy importance to these trees.

Then there are the scholars, who in general although they may belong to a particular group, they hold no allegiances to it but rely on scholarly work. It's their positions I listen to mainly, and what most muslims should do.

People talk about sufism as though it's a seperate school of thought or sect, actually they're neither, they're more like institutions of spiritual practice that already exist within our faith, you can be wahhabi sufi, a shia sufi, a hanafi sufi etc. I'm hoping to join one myself some day, muslims seem to be fretting too much over matters of jurisprudence than law. The wahhabis and the Salafis seem to really despise the sufi, they themselves don't understand it properly. I'm not so acquainted with many sufi writers and poets I'm afraid.

I guess that should help explain my position, I follow the academic muslim scholars who have a more finer understanding of the faith.

Greetings 5tuntma5t3r, thanks for joining AM!

This is the big difference between western civilization and the middle east. A long time ago faith and state were intertwined. Christianity was then heavily influencing the state. However later western countries made a separation of state and religion.

So if you live in a western country you have to abide by western rules which is religion is separate from state and thus any religion can be criticized and so on.

Middle eastern countries never did this and thus are in some-ways more backwards and it also explains why middle eastern countries have lagged behind western for many centuries and many still do.

Some middle eastern countries have become wealthy due to oil exports, but the oil deposits are depleting. Other than that the middle-east is a big sand-box with a lack of natural grasslands and so on.

In other ways like family and perhaps sustainability maybe the middle east is better, because it has not been corrupted and sabotaged by feminism like the west has.



Good points. I think there is much misunderstanding about Islam due to the lack of knowledge people have in western countries. So best thing that muslims can do is to inform people about how things truly are and correct the prevalent misunderstandings.

However it's not to say that a lot of muslim youth in western countries do cause trouble which is a current issue with gangs and crime.


Asia is the largest continent on earth. Are you talking about Arab muslims or Asian muslims. These are somewhat different.

Yeah I think Muslims, but maybe more so Buddhists, Taoism, Shinto, Confucianism have (much) better uphold their societal, family integrity and harmony so far.

The Shame-Culture that exists in the Far East (not middle east) is much better at deflecting feminism versus the Guilt-culture that exists in the Middle East, Europe and Americas. This is because of the way it functions.