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Thread: Young boy raped by underage girl, 4 years older

  1. #1
    Douglas's Avatar
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    Young boy raped by underage girl, 4 years older

    I call it rape because if a 15 year old boy had sex with an 11 year old girl, there is no way that he would still be free in society. It would be called rape due to the UK's statutory rape laws and the 15 year old child would have a sex offence lodged until at least middle age.

    But this isn't a case of a 15 year old boy and an 11 year old girl. The girl was older, so the news concentrates only on the fact that Britain now has a new youngest father.

    Sean, 12, is the youngest father - News - The Independent
    The pair, who are neighbours at Sharnbrook, Bedfordshire, were 11 and 15 when Emma became pregnant.
    Sexual Offences Act 2003 ('he' includes both male and female)
    Quote Quote from Section 7, Sexual assault of a child under 13
    (1)A person commits an offence if—

    (a)he intentionally touches another person,

    (b)the touching is sexual, and

    (c)the other person is under 13.
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    Re: Young boy raped by underage girl, 4 years older

    The most offensive thing you can do to a feminist is treat her with FULL equality.
    --Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.--


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  3. #3
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    Re: Young boy raped by underage girl, 4 years older

    Ug. Ew that is disgusting.

  4. #4
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    Re: Young boy raped by underage girl, 4 years older

    the strictures ad punishments of the gynocracy ae pointed at the male to keep him servile and productive

  5. #5
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    Re: Young boy raped by underage girl, 4 years older

    Rape, eh? I think sensible people call it rather 'a good time'!

    As you know, I think we're too uptight about teenage sex.

    Andrew Usher

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    Dylan MacVillain's Avatar
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    Re: Young boy raped by underage girl, 4 years older

    Quote from Section 7, Sexual assault of a child under 13
    (1)A person commits an offence if—

    (a)he intentionally touches another person,

    (b)the touching is sexual, and

    (c)the other person is under 13.




    How do we contact the PC Police and let them know that they forgot to gender neutralize an item?
    A man who doesn’t want to take care of his kid is called a deadbeat dad; a woman who doesn’t want to take care of her kid is called pro-choice.

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    Re: Young boy raped by underage girl, 4 years older

    This is wrong that she gets away with this but we can't depend on a corrupt government to make this right. That's like depending on rats to get rid of a rat infestation problem. If we have to beg for our freedom, we're not free.
    Damn, it should be a crime to feel this good! On second thought, I better savor the moment before it does become one.

  8. #8
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    Re: Young boy raped by underage girl, 4 years older

    Quote Quote from k_over_hbarc View Post
    Rape, eh? I think sensible people call it rather 'a good time'!

    As you know, I think we're too uptight about teenage sex.

    Andrew Usher
    If you think that then thinking isn't your strong suit and you'd miss the point if you fell into a tub full of needles. The double standard that females are held to a lower standard but we pretend that they're more moral (e.g. In this case, men are considered rapists for this but when women do the same thing it isn't included in the rape data.) The fact that only men can be deemed rapist does make it about sex.

    P.S.

    The point isn't about being uptight about teenagers having sex. The point is this situation with a 15 year old female and an 11 year old male is being treated much differently than the same situation would be treated with a 15 year old male and an 11 year old female. Men's rights 101
    Damn, it should be a crime to feel this good! On second thought, I better savor the moment before it does become one.

  9. #9
    k_over_hbarc's Avatar
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    Re: Young boy raped by underage girl, 4 years older

    Quote Quote from Dylan MacVillain
    Quote from Section 7, Sexual assault of a child under 13
    Quote Quote from Dylan MacVillain
    (1)A person commits an offence if—

    (a)he intentionally touches another person,

    (b)the touching is sexual, and

    (c)the other person is under 13.

    How do we contact the PC Police and let them know that they forgot to gender neutralize an item?
    This use of 'he' is normal statutory construction, and not an indicator of bias. As far as I know the feminist haven't successfully challenged this practice.

    Quote Quote from Popadibs
    If you think that then thinking isn't your strong suit and you'd miss the point if you fell into a tub full of needles. The double standard that females are held to a lower standard but we pretend that they're more moral ...
    I know all this - it's too obvious to need saying again every time; perhaps you could consider that before throwing out an insult. I do not see however how it would force me to consider this situation rape.

    Andrew Usher
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    Re: Young boy raped by underage girl, 4 years older

    Quote Quote from k_over_hbarc View Post
    [COLOR=#333333][FONT=arial]
    This use of 'he' is normal statutory construction, and not an indicator of bias. As far as I know the feminist haven't successfully challenged this practice.


    I know all this - it's too obvious to need saying again every time; perhaps you could consider that before throwing out an insult. I do not see however how it would force me to consider this situation rape.

    Andrew Usher
    If normal statutory construction is all there is to it and not an indicator of bias, why was this teenage girl not punished just as a teenage boy her age would've been?

    You said you think that sensible people would call this a good time in a world that would punish a 15 year old boy for having a child with an 11 year old girl. Yet, you claim to know all of this and that it's too obvious, yet, because we object to calling this "a good time" and treat it consistently with how the sexes reversed would be treated, you call us insensible. Your statement was an insult to us because we don't think what you do.

    Oh and what you consider statutory rape is of no consequence since teenage boys would still be punished and/or 11 year old boys would still be held responsible later on to raise a child.
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    Damn, it should be a crime to feel this good! On second thought, I better savor the moment before it does become one.

  11. #11
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    Re: Young boy raped by underage girl, 4 years older

    Quote Quote from Popadibs
    If normal statutory construction is all there is to it and not an indicator of bias, why was this teenage girl not punished just as a teenage boy her age would've been?
    I am not saying there is no bias! Obviously there is and we all know it, but the text of the law is not the source of the bias.

    Your statement was an insult to us because we don't think what you do.
    Mere disagreement is not an insult. Obviously the words 'a good time' were somewhat joking, and do not necessary imply there should be no punishment here.

    I object to the word 'rape' because (as I have stated) I dislike the feminist vague definition of the word and prefer to be very strict about what really is rape. In this case here, I think from what we know there can be no doubt this can be considered a consensual relationship (and therefore not rape) even though 11 seems very young.

    Oh and what you consider statutory rape is of no consequence since teenage boys would still be punished and/or 11 year old boys would still be held responsible later on to raise a child.
    This is inconsistent. It implies that whether it is rape when the boy is older is determined by what actually happens, whereas when the girl is older it is determined (as you say) by what _should_ happen.

    If I think as I do that the law unfairly punishes boys and men, advocating for it to punish girls and women in the same way would be improper.

    Andrew Usher

  12. #12
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    Re: Young boy raped by underage girl, 4 years older

    Quote Quote from k_over_hbarc View Post
    I am not saying there is no bias! Obviously there is and we all know it, but the text of the law is not the source of the bias.
    Whether or not the text of this law is the source of the bias, it perfectly illustrates the bias that takes place.

    Quote Quote from k_over_hbarc View Post
    Mere disagreement is not an insult. Obviously the words 'a good time' were somewhat joking, and do not necessary imply there should be no punishment here.
    Saying that any sensible person will agree with you is saying that anyone who disagrees with you is insensible. Therein lies the insult.

    Quote Quote from k_over_hbarc View Post
    I object to the word 'rape' because (as I have stated) I dislike the feminist vague definition of the word and prefer to be very strict about what really is rape. In this case here, I think from what we know there can be no doubt this can be considered a consensual relationship (and therefore not rape) even though 11 seems very young.
    I agree with you on this principle, however, it should apply irrespective of the person's sex and it doesn't. So while I agree with this I also believe that if males are going to be punished for this that females shouldn't get a free pass.


    Quote Quote from k_over_hbarc View Post
    This is inconsistent. It implies that whether it is rape when the boy is older is determined by what actually happens, whereas when the girl is older it is determined (as you say) by what _should_ happen.
    Laws are enforced inconsistently.

    Quote Quote from k_over_hbarc View Post
    If I think as I do that the law unfairly punishes boys and men, advocating for it to punish girls and women in the same way would be improper.

    Andrew Usher
    More gov't isn't a good thing. I wouldn't want them extending their iron hand further but...

    If our judgement isn't fair or proper how do we determine what's fair and what's proper?

    What one considers fair another considers injustice.

    What another considers appropriate one considers improper.

    People don't agree on what's fair and what's proper.

    To punish women as unfairly as boys and men would be improper.

    To not punish women for things men and boys are unfairly punished for is neither fair nor proper.

    To punish boys and men unfairly but not punish women properly is neither fair nor proper.

    Consistency is key. Either punish both males and females unfairly or don't punish males for things females don't get punished for at all. To everyone either be consistently fair or to everyone be consistently unfair.
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    Damn, it should be a crime to feel this good! On second thought, I better savor the moment before it does become one.

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    Re: Young boy raped by underage girl, 4 years older

    Quote Quote from Popadibs View Post
    If our judgement isn't fair or proper how do we determine what's fair and what's proper?

    What one considers fair another considers injustice.

    What another considers appropriate one considers improper.

    People don't agree on what's fair and what's proper.

    To punish women as unfairly as boys and men would be improper.

    To not punish women for things men and boys are unfairly punished for is neither fair nor proper.

    To punish boys and men unfairly but not punish women properly is neither fair nor proper.

    Consistency is key. Either punish both males and females unfairly or don't punish males for things females don't get punished for at all. To everyone either be consistently fair or to everyone be consistently unfair.
    Precisely and well stated.

    There will always be social and political disagreements about what is "right" and what is "wrong" but there should be underlying principles that everyone can agree to. For a long time now, "equality under the law" has been bandied about as the thing that western societies pretend to want.

    So while I don't think the use of the gender-neutral use of the masculine pronoun is very important, applying the law in a gender-neutral manner is very important until or unless a nation openly declares that equality under the law is no longer the aim. (The UK is getting very close to this position with the effective closing of all female detention prisons.)

    With current gynocentric politics, there is no chance of improving matters for men or boys only. So in cases where men and boys are being unduly punished, we stand a far greater chance of having women and girls punished to the same extent. For those who think that such punishment is wrong in the first place, I understand the distastefulness of this but there are times when pragmatism is needed. Only when everyone really is treated equally under the law will those wanting less punishment over something find themselves with allies and find anyone interested. Until everyone is treated equally under the law, the only result of pushing for lower punishment on an issue is likely to be even lower punishment for women only. In the UK, this is what has happened with the prison reform movement, it happened with initiatives to tackle shop lifting and is happening with prostitution laws across Europe.

    There will never be agreement on what is fair in society but as Popadibs rightly says, consistency is key. Either punish both males and females unfairly or don't punish males for things females don't get punished for at all. To everyone either be consistently fair or to everyone be consistently unfair. When issues of unfairness against males is being highlighted, it does men and boys no good to say "but nobody should be punished" because that will not lead to a practical change in the discrimination against males.
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    Re: Young boy raped by underage girl, 4 years older

    Quote Quote from Douglas View Post
    I call it rape because if a 15 year old boy had sex with an 11 year old girl, there is no way that he would still be free in society. It would be called rape due to the UK's statutory rape laws and the 15 year old child would have a sex offence lodged until at least middle age.

    But this isn't a case of a 15 year old boy and an 11 year old girl. The girl was older, so the news concentrates only on the fact that Britain now has a new youngest father.

    ​Yes Douglas, it is rape.
    No amount of double standards or feminist denial will ever change that fact.
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    Re: Young boy raped by underage girl, 4 years older

    Let's grant for the sake of the argument that this kind of sexual activity should not be considered wrong, as Popadibs and Douglas appeared at least willing to entertain. They then say that, even so, we must agitate to enforce the laws against it. And as I've indicated last time, I can't agree.

    Yes, it's true that now it seems that advocating that no one be punished has no chance of making a difference. But that doesn't mean it never will. While you can't always get what you want politically, you're certain not to if you never ask for it. On this and many other issues, the democratic process appears to give us no hope; but that's because democracy is a scam, the only real way to make progress is to have men or person(s) like me as dictator, and I finally became convinced of that a few years ago (see mens rights help forum ? View topic - How I could make a difference ). I guess everything that I post on political issues can be understood as an attempt to convince others of that fact.

    The most important principle of the criminal law is justice, not consistency. Of course, the best justice requires consistency, but that shouldn't lead us to get it backwards and support injustice in the name of consistency. Advocating that women should be punished for this is inseparable from actually believing that they should be, as you won't get anywhere with that argument unless you actually pretend to believe that. Therefore if you did succeed with it, you'd be forced by politics to continue to support it. That's called hypocrisy.

    And you don't apply the same thinking to other issues, either. Douglas mentioned prostitution - now most men here believe prostitution should be legal. Do you then advocate for punishing female prostitutes in spite of that? I haven't seen it. Or take circumcision; I endlessly see male circumcision compared to 'female circumcision'. Then you should (not I, of course) advocate we push female genital mutilation as long as male circumcision is legal, to quote his argument 'that's how we'd get anyone interested'. And you don't do that, even though those are logically the same.

    Sometimes I think that when people debate criminal punishments, they forget that we're talking about real people. Even if it's not you or anyone you know personally, it's a real person that's affected. Would anyone be willing to say to a close friend or relative of someone so affected that even though the person did nothing wrong, you support sending the person to jail and putting him or her on the sex-offender registry for life just to make a point? If you couldn't say that, you should probably think again.

    Andrew Usher


 

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