The question is, why should we care? These sort of half assed half baked articles say little and solve nothing. I've not read the article above but they are usually full of provisos and assurances of Feminism/Matriarchy's worth.

Even if we take it as true that the modern woman is unhappy, what is being proposed as an alternative by these femjournos? A serious abatement of the Primary Tenets of feminism? No way.

The modern woman has made her bed, and she has chosen feminism as her political weapon. In doing so the modern woman as a collective is not the concern of the modern man as a collective.

Okay I read that PoS article. Here are a few of my criticisms, which are just about standard for any of these "modern woman is not so happy" articles.

- Feminism is not egalitarian. Not in 1792, not today. It is pro-Matriarchy, not pro-equality.
- The article assumes women to exude "wisdom and empathy". Does anyone have a problem with this?
- The higher ones expectations are, the more one is disappointed. This is why people in poorer countries are happier than those who are from say, the USA. The same applies to women. The woman of 1972 had lower expectations than the woman of today. Rather than just accept this, Ms Cox Gurdon patches together some half assed "poor woman" rant.
- Happiness is all relative and subjective at the end of the day.
- Like most articles written by femjournos, this article pays no attention men's concerns. If men are so much happier than women, why do they commit suicide in far greater numbers? Why, coinciding with the growth of "egalitarian" feminism, has the male suicide rate soared over the past four decades? She doesn't even consider these things. Anything that suggests male dissatisfation or unhappiness "doesn't count".
- The femjournno mentions "egalitarian" feminism alot, but ultimately she doesn't reject it outright. So in the end, what good is she or her article? She whines, but she won't give up privilages or the feminist status quo.

Your comments in #3 above are on the ball M-R-N, but this one from #2 is a bit suss:

The modern woman has made her bed, and she has chosen feminism as her political weapon. In doing so the modern woman as a collective is not the concern of the modern man as a collective.

Women seem to speak as if all women were the same. It is standard 'herd-speak'. But I do not see them that way. And I certainly don't see men 'as a collective'. It smacks of Communistic speech to me. The MGTOW would not see themselves as a 'collective' either.

Men have diverse views, some clear and semsible. some pretty dim. Otherwise there would be no manginas. In the MRM we would be hard pressed to find two men and a dog who think alike on most matters.

Then I question why you are on this forum, Percy. As it is about real or perceived biases against men as a collective.

Communism in Russia etc. atomised people into worker drones. You could say that people in the USSR were as brainwashed and harmed by individualism as we are here in the West.

Your definition of Communism - simply as "collectivism" - is a huge oversimplification.

Individualism was always only a concept, whereas collectivism is reality. No sooner does the theory of individualism leave Von Mises and Ayn Rand's pages does in fall apart in the real world.

If the dogma of individualism was true or natural as those folk suggest, then we would have not have the continued strength of feminism. The reality is that collectivism is natural, and individualism is a lie. Men are a collective, and women are a collective.

We need to simply deal with that. We should give up the idea that us believing in individualism will make collectivism or feminism go away. This is totally bogus, it is sophistry.

DB, you say that feminism is bad for women and Percy, you say that feminism does not speak for women. Yet any recent poll will tell you most women self identify as feminists, the most famous being a Newsweek poll in the 1980s, which led to the formation of Feminist Majority organisation.

So as most women self identify and are feminists, both of your charges are essentially invalidated.

So modern women are not happy,why do i not really care?

The reason why modern women aren't happy is because they fuck themselves over on a regular basis!!!

Quote from Male-Rights-Network

Yet any recent poll will tell you most women self identify as feminists, the most famous being a Newsweek poll in the 1980s, which led to the formation of Feminist Majority organisation.

So as most women self identify and are feminists, both of your charges are essentially invalidated.

The most recent polls I've seen suggest that only 29% of Americans identify themselves as feminists. Of course, it's not so much in the labels as in the lies and how many of them people have bought into.

Interestingly, while a minority of both men and women in the U.S. call themselves feminists, a majority of both men and women agree with many of the platforms of feminism....meaning they've bought into the lies.

That said.....the reason women aren't happy is because they haven't the slightest notion of what makes a person happy. Nothing that women have been told to pursue has ever brought human beings happiness. Feminism has told women that they are victims, that they should be angry and bitter and distrustful. Every value that might have brought women joy has been mocked and every value that leads to empty, unfulfilling lives has been promoted....of course they're not happy.

Quote from Kim

The most recent polls I've seen suggest that only 29% of Americans identify themselves as feminists. Of course, it's not so much in the labels as in the lies and how many of them people have bought into.

Interestingly, while a minority of both men and women in the U.S. call themselves feminists, a majority of both men and women agree with many of the platforms of feminism....meaning they've bought into the lies.

That said.....the reason women aren't happy is because they haven't the slightest notion of what makes a person happy. Nothing that women have been told to pursue has ever brought human beings happiness. Feminism has told women that they are victims, that they should be angry and bitter and distrustful. Every value that might have brought women joy has been mocked and every value that leads to empty, unfulfilling lives has been promoted....of course they're not happy.

I couldn't have said it better!

The most recent polls I've seen suggest that only 29% of Americans identify themselves as feminists.

Americans, or American women?

No man can be a true feminist and male feminists do not drive feminism forward. They're not the vanguard and they don't define the movement. They are at best honorary members of the club. Whether American men self-identify as feminists seems pretty irrelevant to me.

Interestingly, while a minority of both men and women in the U.S. call themselves feminists

Could I get a source for this please? As far as I was aware, the trend that started with the Newsweek 1980s poll has not stopped, in fact it has gone up to something like 90%.

That said.....the reason women aren't happy is because they haven't the slightest notion of what makes a person happy. Nothing that women have been told to pursue has ever brought human beings happiness... Every value that might have brought women joy has been mocked and every value that leads to empty, unfulfilling lives has been promoted....of course they're not happy.

I accept your point Kim, but it seems more likely to me that "higher expectations = greater disappointment" is the real reason.

Which when you think about it, is really quite elementary my dear Watson!

And if the old world values were really better for women, and women have an inkling of this, why don't they dismantle the systems of feminism, which would bring those old world values into view?

One can't believe women are "brainwashed" all the time, and one has to hold them responsible and accountable for their lifestyle/ideological decisions at some stage.

Feminism has told women that they are victims, that they should be angry and bitter and distrustful.

Not really. Today's feminism has moved well beyond that and teaches them that they are superior. The "victim" rhetoric was always a smokescreen anyway. More privilages and biased Matriarchal laws being the end goal always of such rhetoric.

Quote from Male-Rights-Network

Could I get a source for this please? As far as I was aware, the trend that started with the Newsweek 1980s poll has not stopped, in fact it has gone up to something like 90%.

http://www.verticalthought.org/issues/vt18/flaw.htm

Only 29 percent of American women consider themselves feminists, according to a 2007 poll conducted by Rasmussen Reports, LLC. Polls that CBS conducted in 2006 and 1997 yielded similar responses.

Quote from Male-Rights-Network

One can't believe women are "brainwashed" all the time, and one has to hold them responsible and accountable for their lifestyle/ideological decisions at some stage.

Well said, and I agree. I don't believe women are brainwashed, I believe they chose to buy into lies....lies that they should have recognized for the falsehoods they were. One of the greatest betrayals of all time was committed when women CHOSE to believe the lies of feminism, effectively villifying their fathers and husbands, those who loved, cared for and protected them.

Quote from Male-Rights-Network

Not really. Today's feminism has moved well beyond that and teaches them that they are superior. The "victim" rhetoric was always a smokescreen anyway. More privilages and biased Matriarchal laws being the end goal always of such rhetoric.

As incongruous as it might be.....I would say every aspect of feminism is saturated with victimization. Feminism is the empowerment of women at the expense of men. They excuse this unfairness by citing the victimization of women, i.e. we must weigh everything in the favor of women in order to balance out the injustices toward them compliments of the terrible patriarchy. All preferential treatment of women under the law and otherwise is deemed exusable because they are, afterall, really just victims of men......But yes, as you've said, it is something of a smoke screen to justify their aims.

I think modern women ARE happy.

I suppose the country makes a difference.

Quote from julie

I think modern women ARE happy.

I suppose the country makes a difference.

SHIT!!!

Quote from Zuberi

SHIT!!!

It is funny in a way.

Here is something even funnier.

I think modern men are happy also.

I live at the bottom and yet I see so much happiness. I have no idea how that can be but it just is.

Quote from julie

I think modern women ARE happy.

I suppose the country makes a difference.

I concur Julie. But in any case it's not an MRA concern. Sorry to tell y'all but men being concerned about women's happiness is "patronising" and "chauvinistic".

When women and feminists want VAWA passed, then you are allowed (required) to be concerned about women's happiness; however otherwise? No.

But looking it from a strictly masculinist/MRA point of view, there's no reason why we should care either way.