Of 7 threads, 1 is for AAM (another site), one unrelated to a specific site and one for youtube. The rest are AVfM. So 5 out 7 promote other sites. All but one being AVfM and that 1 being affiliated.

More random bickering....

Quote from FloatyBoaty

More random bickering....

Yes Marx is spending increasing amounts of time embarrassingly bickering, rather than acting as webmaster in a purposeful and progressive way. This site had good potential, but goes sideways as a moaning shop for people who talk about it rather than do activism.

If he doesn’t apply himself to running this place to make it more successful and strong, he shouldn’t moan about other sites that do.

A classic example of the ‘English disease’ where there is much talent here, but never developed and the Americans do it better. Depressing – really.

There is too much emphasis on comfortable socialising instead of purposeful agendas to tackle misandry about these AM meetings for example. No wander other groups do it better and apply activism; and fundraising! – Marx if you want AM to get ahead, put the bit in your mouth and go for it! - instead of grumbling about the Americans who do.

Ah, I just noticed that the AVFM thing does rotate and they still have the AM logo on there..

So, you chaps haven't pettied yourselves out of their approval box..

YET...

Well done for reaching your Target Iron John.

Personally, I prefer to donate to folks and sites that do direct activism. I am not really into the limited "love my own clever and smooth sexy voice" webwankery and as for anything that needs "lawyers".. Well, if you cant get legal brains for free, you aint worth shit and don't deserve it because there are several good MRA type criminal lawyers who will help for free..

Mind you, I am of course speaking from the UK position.. Which I would also add Angry Harry aught to be considering a lot more.. He could also update the links to his site that state "outdated" stuff in support of groups that no longer are regarded as pushing in the right direction..

Don't add your name to crap, chaps.. Folks might mistakenly think you are crap too..

Which in Harry's case, we know he's a good chap, just us hardcore UK activists know when a good gent is wasting his time where he need not be..

Quote from Trauma Fried Brains

Yes Marx is spending increasing amounts of time embarrassingly bickering, rather than acting as webmaster in a purposeful and progressive way. This site had good potential, but goes sideways as a moaning shop for people who talk about it rather than do activism.

If he doesn’t apply himself to running this place to make it more successful and strong, he shouldn’t moan about other sites that do.

A classic example of the ‘English disease’ where there is much talent here, but never developed and the Americans do it better. Depressing –really.

There is too much emphasis on comfortable socialising instead of purposeful agendas to tackle misandry about these AM meetings for example. No wander other groups do it better and apply activism; and fundraising! – Marx if you want AM to get ahead, put the bit in your mouth and go for it instead of grumbling about the Americans who do.

I'm guessing you've not read the thread in full? There is no American bashing (IJ is Aussie, I believe??). It's escalated due to a simple question being evaded with snide comments in response rather than just a simple answer being given.
The last part of your comment is entirely unrelated to this thread, rather, it's just an excuse for you to complain (hypocrisy?) because the meeting/s haven't gone according to your plans. At least, that's how it looks.

I said from word go - the meetings were social. You decided to take them as being activism based. I was happy to meet you half way and spend a good amount of time using the meet-up for activism discussion. I'm guessing that wasn't good enough...

Quote from Marx

I'm guessing that wasn't good enough...

You’re guessing wrong.

But if you think that I’m going to detail why here, you’d be mistaken because although I could refute most of your assumptions in the above post, I won’t. I do not want to be drawn to the mindless sort of bickering that characterises this thread; and as webmaster, I am aghast that you do – it’s simply not becoming of your position.

You're right that as an Admin I shouldn't be squabbling.. but I've always been a little outspoken and it's never failed to lose me friends. But, I'd rather speak my mind and have people know where they stand than run circles around people with two-faces and knife ready to impale them in the back with.

However, if you have an issue you'd like to discuss, feel welcome to PM me.

I am starting to think the mrm is useless and a waste of time.

Quote from Trauma Fried Brains

You’re guessing wrong.

But if you think that I’m going to detail why hear, you’d be mistaken because although I could refute most of your assumptions in the above post, I won’t. I do not want to be drawn to the mindless sort of bickering that characterises this thread; and as webmaster, I am aghast that you do – it’s simply not becoming of your position.

Trauma Fried Brians is ready to give out infractions! LOL

Quote from outdoors

I am starting to think the mrm is useless and a waste of time.

It will always be what folks make of it. Many folks don't want to make much of it. Many folks want contradictory things from it. Most folks take a peek in then decide its not something that really is worth their energies..

Never forget, there is no official organisation called the MRM, no matter what folks might try and tell you..

I and marx did have a great idea about having some sort of award for the "worlds best MRA", which I think could be a great opportunity to unite and rally round folks who put forward a solid and respectable position, highlighting the GOOD work and methods of acknowledged great MRA's..

But, need I remind you outdoors who thought it was bad idea, that it would be all about everything I myself personally valued etc?

So, what do we do? Go with the lowest common denominator (of crap) to keep folk happy?

And when you want to make comments about me..

Call me a MRA by all means, even though I won't personally claim to be one, its a label I don't mind too much as us high testostorone chaps do have a few things in common with MRA's in some areas..

Quote from felixblue

It will always be what folks make of it. Many folks don't want to make much of it. Many folks want contradictory things from it. Most folks take a peek in then decide its not something that really is worth their energies..

Never forget, there is no official organisation called the MRM, no matter what folks might try and tell you..

I and marx did have a great idea about having some sort of award for the "worlds best MRA", which I think could be a great opportunity to unite and rally round folks who put forward a solid and respectable position, highlighting the GOOD work and methods of acknowledged great MRA's..

But, need I remind you outdoors who thought it was bad idea, that it would be all about everything I myself personally valued etc?

So, what do we do? Go with the lowest common denominator (of crap) to keep folk happy?

And when you want to make comments about me..

Call me a MRA by all means, even though I won't personally claim to be one, its a label I don't mind too much as us high testostorone chaps do have a few things in common with MRA's in some areas..

You do what you gotta do.

I think it may be a good idea for you to restart your contest if you like.


I don't really care anymore.

Quote from Marx

You're right that as an Admin I shouldn't be squabbling.. but I've always been a little outspoken and it's never failed to lose me friends. But, I'd rather speak my mind and have people know where they stand than run circles around people with two-faces and knife ready to impale them in the back with.

However, if you have an issue you'd like to discuss, feel welcome to PM me.

Is this how you see everyone you deal with marx? Ever ready to stab you in the back? Maybe this comes from somewhere deep in your history but it's not how folk generally behave and if you really think that is the default state of humans, then I pity you.

You may well "speak your mind", but with respect, what is that mind worth? You wanna spend the next decade of your life bickering with petty feminist nobodies and having a website that judges its value by its own weight of posts, even if a vast number are off topic entirely, a waste of energy, etc..? And issues infractions and bannings based on girly standards of justice.. Not WHAT is said, but HOW it is said! Has to be PC and approved.. ridiculous on a supposed mens forum!

And where do you state you stand?

You seem to want to have one foot in your right carpet slipper and the other, pretending it might just get out of the other one.. If conditions blow the right way and you don't need to actually do much..

Yes.. Would be nice.. If you you had to do was nod approval and it happened.. But you don't state that.. (Where you stand at any particularly point in time)..

We need to work it out for ourselves as you keep doing what is predicatable.. But only to a few of us who know you well... And AM keeps doing what is predictable.. Again only to a few of us who know what generally happens here, and on forums in the MRM over time and they stagnate after peaking..

But, IF you want to change things Marx, you and only you really can..

So, what, if anything DO you want to change?

By all means lets be having this "This is where I stand" position clarified..

TFB is not in the wrong as far as I can see..

Whats the issue?

There isnt one..

You seem to be trying to imply TFB was twisting your arm to make the meeting "activism based".. Whereas you wanted it to be "just social"..

You know what I think?

I think the pair of you don't understand a simple fact of life in this area of human endeavor..

You can't differentiate that easy between "the social" and "the business"..

As I said in my write up of the meeting "you can't bring together driven activists against misandry for any occasion and not expect them to talk business"..

YOU are an activist Marx, just as much as TFB or I am..

YOUR activism happens to be the key man on the AM forum.. Webmaster..

And, you certainly had your business dealt with, for your forum and its needs, at the meeting..

I do not recall that meeting being taken up by TFB’s activism, most of the time it was socialising as we went from pub to pub. You had very much influence there marx.

I think Richard spoke approximately 90% of the words at that meeting.. About his own case, and questioning TFB's ideas when TFB was making his 1 hour or whatever of effort..

What I do recall is TFB was also out to help you strengthen AM. That has always been one of his core interests because he respects AM as a potential source of folks who are interested in HIS style of activism and HAVE donated funds to his direct action.. As well as a useful "training ground" for MRA's..

You expressed how you were concerned about it not growing and it’s more active members going off to other places (like the English brain drain as TFB notes) and TFB gave you his analysis of why.

Seemed you chaps agreed about his views on why you have such a high turnover of newbie’s who appeared to be disappointed with AM. He came up with ideas which you appeared to like and he agreed to help you because he wants to support AM and see it stronger. I am not sure these reasons are "the right ones" myself, but for sure TFB was dealing with what YOU have concerns about on AM..

He did some work on this both with Andyman and by himself. However over the last few weeks I know he has felt let down because he said you wouldn’t respond to his posts on the activism forum we have and skype to develop this work further. This is work in designing a welcome pack and mentoring polices as well as providing you his contacts in mensaid and the false accusations support society. Remember I was there in this conversation and can fully understand TFB’s frustration in you not responding to his efforts to make AM better whilst from TFB's perspective you seem to be wasting your time in your usual way on petty crap and basefook..

Personally, I say, thats your choice, and if I was TFB, I would simply not waste time expecting anything other than this!

I have spoken to TFB several times about what he can reasonably expect from folks, and in particular yourself..

After all, some folks have busy lives etc..

And some folks actually prefer spending all their time on silly petty nonsense and whatever, rather than actually getting on with the work that others might prefer them to do..

I don’t think TFB is referring to American bashing so much as the English disease which I guess he is saying you demonstrate so well. We do not develop our ideas, we spend most of our energy grumbling about other nations that do when we have all the talent here. but squander it.

IF (and that is a big IF).. You truly want to make AM an site that can be usefully regarded as an "activism" site.. Or a "springboard for activists" (the claim that places like AVFM may be truly an "activism site" is from my limited understanding of the place and what it does, and my and other hardcorers view of what "real activism" is about, is laughable!)..

Then you will have to pull your socks up and stop pretending :-

A) That your site and the meetings you want are "basically just social, not for activism"..

Its not just social, and you aught to know that, when you are getting 4 plus chaps meeting with a common theme.. Especially when you are discussing how to improve things on AM.. Or do you want to create a rift where there doesn't need to be with the work TFB is doing and AM is doing? What's the point of that? Silly.. The work is symbiotic..

B) You don't need to actually make any effort in terms of an agenda for meetings, work etc.. It will all somehow bring itself together by magical effect of some other peoples motivation and efforts..

I don't know what I am personally bothered about with all this crap really..

But..

I like to see good chaps working well together..

Marx is a long standing webmaster and despite his "limitations" I think he can mature and move forward.. If he wants to put this petty crap behind him at long last and decide whether he wants to take his slippers off and put his boots on..

TFB.. Well, that gent is working, 100%, full time with one or two other dedicated chaps, and I have to say, I really think when he is making the effort to help AM out, at the expense of his OWN campaign time.. He is doing that out of respect for the use of AM for the cause, so you really aught to show some damned interest Marx and not have this silly paranoia all the time that someone like TFB can in some way "take" all your best posters..

THey are going, because you prefer to stay where you are perhaps rather than move AM to the promised land that I KNOW it can reach..

If you wanna make the effort to go there..

Personally (again..)

I am not sure that the MRM make the numbers gains it needs from the sort of "activism" that is on offer..

Damaged men leading damaged men..

Been tried..

Will take much to make it work.. And the folks involved will need to use the technologies and forums to communicate much better.. This is key..

I and a few others also strongly think it really must come from a more socially geared grouping of folks meeting in real life..

But you still need a fucking "agenda.."

If only to tell folks which bloody pub to meet at, and which go cart track we are going to race round at what time, and what time and place everything else will be done..

This is more than sad. And I don’t mean any person in particular, but just the destructive force of hierarchal competition and the adolescent pissing matches.

I have a suggestion. AM, which I think is a valuable resource for men, can remove the AVfM banner from this site. In return, I will figure out a way to give this site INCREASED presence at AVfM. Anyone interested may also produce sound files advertising this website and I will play them on the AVfM Radio shows and create a video to be played on my youtube channel.

I am in the UK right now. When I come back I will make a donation to AM out of my personal funds. It won’t be much but it will be what I can afford.

I want to thank Iron John for reaching out to help us raise money for operations. No one asked him to do it. He is just a concerned MRA.
Anyway, the offer, exactly as presented here, will stand permanently.

Maybe at some point enough men will allow the switch in their minds to flip to the ON position, and we can start putting energy into cooperation and not into tearing each other down.

My goodness, I wake up this morning and find the above two posst. Yesterday, I went to bed seriously wandering that I shouldn’t have addressed Marx the way I did, but knowing that I also couldn’t bear to see our webmaster concern himself with the issues on this string before my post.

Then I read Felixblue post voicing some of the points I decided not to elaborate personally to avoid adding to the sort of atmosphere I was complaining about. Thank you FB for doing that and keeping the language to the point by not being too colourful in your usual way.

But Now Paul Elam’s surprising post injecting the sort of purposefulness we should all try harder to project in this struggle. Because that’s all it is – a struggle for our human worth against a prejudice that we, as a tiny minority in our world, choose to oppose.

I’ll give my life to this cause, both spiritually and physically, with how I choose to express my activism against this prejudice. It is a prejudice that we all see with open eyes, outnumbered by those who are blind to it. And I only see one purpose in our need to congregate over its details. We are in this together, we feel the same pain; we all suffer the harm we speak of from feminism.

Yesterday I was deeply saddened wandering if we are good enough to defeat our enemies. I was wrong to wander so, because this morning I found hope again when I logged on here and read the last two posts.

We’re all fighting a common enemy, a state of mind, an element of culture we see as evil. Let us make sure that is where we continue to apply our energies – together.