Are there too many female medical graduates?

**brian44** · 15th-March-2009

I found this article from last year:

Are there too many female medical graduates? Yes

Too many female graduates are bad for medicine, just as too many male ones have been in the past. The numbers of men and women entering medical school should roughly reflect the numbers in society. The case for this is simply on grounds of equal opportunity. But there are also strong economic and workforce planning reasons. I will argue this largely from the perspective of my own specialty, general practice, which illustrates most strongly the impact of the feminisation of medicine. Over the past 30 years the proportion of women attending medical schools has steadily risen in many countries including the UK, US, Canada, and Australia.1 2 In 2002-3, all UK medical schools had more female students than male, with the percentage of women exceeding 65% in some.3 This partly reflects the increasing number of women applying for medical courses and their increasing examination success in science. For many years the relative lack of female doctors was bemoaned, but the tables are turning and soon male doctors will be in a minority. This is already the case in primary care in many parts of the UK.

Workforce implications

Why does this matter? The main concerns centre on the work patterns of women doctors and also around the development of the profession. Women doctors concentrate in a few specialties regarded as family friendly (for example, primary care4 and psychiatry5) and tend not to take up some specialties such as surgery.4 This unequal distribution means that some specialties feel the implications of part time working and maternity leave, such as lack of continuity of care and resource use disproportionately.
Female doctors are more likely to work part time than their male colleagues.6 Despite many years of feminist discourse society still expects women rather than men to reduce work commitments to look after children and not to return to full time work until the children are older. However, research among general practitioners has shown that many women in their 50s, when their children are relatively independent, continue to work part time, often because of other caring demands.7 8 In addition, more female general practitioners plan to retire before the age of 60 than men, shortening their working life further.7 In psychiatry, one study found that nearly twice as many female consultants (41%) as male planned to finish work on or before their 55th birthday.9 Fewer women than men choose to work out of hours,8 and the increase in women doctors may have partly influenced the recent abdication of out of hours work by general practitioners in the UK. Although some research suggests that younger male doctors are also seeking part time careers,10 there is little evidence that they are actually opting for this lifestyle.

Time bomb

We are yet to feel the full effect of the feminisation of primary care in the UK and elsewhere. Above the age of 45 years men, mostly working full time, are still the majority, whereas most general practitioners younger than 45 years are female and mainly working part time.11 As older mainly full time doctors retire, unless employment behaviour changes from past patterns, there will be a major shortfall in primary care provision.

Are there too many female medical graduates? Yes -- McKinstry 336 (7647): 748 -- BMJ

I liked this letter in reply:

Feminisation of medicine begins before medical school

Dr McKinstry is to be congratulated for making an important observation and cogently presenting the potential consequences of a greater proportion of female medical graduates compared to male. The question that is not answered is why more females than males are admitted to medical schools and the issue that is not addressed is that perhaps the answer lies, at least partly, in the fact that the education system fails more boys than girls. There is a disturbing spread of feminisation across society leading to mistaken beliefs that boys, and the men that they become, are worse at communicating, cannot show empathy and consequently are not as good at caring. This, of course, is all seen from a female perspective with no recognition that a male manner of communicating, showing empathy and care may differ from that of a female but it is no less acceptable. Women are not better at being doctors than men are but with more women in the profession, the talents and skills of male students and eventually male doctors stand the risk of being eroded.
As academics and educators in the clinical and medical professions we have seen and heard of excellent male students chided and even insulted by female clinicians for being poor communicators because they do not behave in a certain way that is more characteristic of females. Unlike the female student who can complain of sexist behaviour if a male tutor were imposing his viewpoint on her communication skills, the male who is unfairly treated by a female tutor is unlikely to make such a complaint.
The chatty, touchy feely manner may be favoured by some, but not by others. One can only wonder whether the gradual loss of public respect in the medical profession, the increasing input, in medical courses, of sociological topics and the over emphasis on communication skills at the expense of the science of medicine, are not all correlated with a feminisation of the profession.
The solution lies in keeping the numbers of male and female students equal and in ensuring that the equality begins years before applications to medical courses are made: by providing schooling that is as fair to boys as it is to girls. Professor Barbara Pierscionek Dr Patricia Hart

bmj.com Rapid Responses for McKinstry, 336 (7647) 748

**RebelliousVanilla** · 15th-March-2009

I dislike female gynaecologists. Male ones are a lot more tender and careful. Maybe it's just my experience.

And the part-time thing isn't related to the younger doctors being women, but with the fact that doctors are underpaid in socialized medicine. Why do you think the whole Western EU has a shortage of doctors and nurses in the public system?

**brian44** · 15th-March-2009

Quote from RebelliousVanilla

I dislike female gynaecologists. Male ones are a lot more tender and careful. Maybe it's just my experience.

And the part-time thing isn't related to the younger doctors being women, but with the fact that doctors are underpaid in socialized medicine. Why do you think the whole Western EU has a shortage of doctors and nurses in the public system?

Well for doctors it could be because more are now likely to be women who don't want to devote as much time to their careers as men would have in the past and many women drop out of medicine completely. Some men may have perceived a slight loss of status in the profession and chosen other more lucrative career paths. As far as nurses, I think many just go off to other countries with higher standards of living and pay. Many British nurses go to the US, Canada, Australia and New Zealand. Who can blame anyone leaving this miserable, damp little island off the coast of Europe!

I actually read somewhere that female asian medical graduates were often just looking to find better quality husbands and just went off and became wives and mothers when they found a good male doctor. Wonder how much that happens in the West.

**Feckless** · 15th-March-2009

Quote from RebelliousVanilla

I dislike female gynaecologists. Male ones are a lot more tender and careful. Maybe it's just my experience.

My wife says this as well....and there is truth to that female doctors and part time thing. I had an article on it too....I´ll search for it tomorrow

**Feckless** · 16th-March-2009

Women GPs don´t work full time - http://antimisandry.com/chit-chat-ma...sts-12208.html

That one...

Medical crisis grows as female GPs avoid full-time posts

DR MUIRIS HOUSTON, Medical CorrespondentTHE MEDICAL manpower crisis is even worse than previously estimated, with patients almost certain to experience difficulty accessing GP services, new research has shown.
Researchers from the department of primary care and public health at Trinity College Dublin (TCD) have found that women GPs are only half as likely to work full-time at partnership level as male doctors.
This means that the imminent manpower crisis, the result of a surge in the number of family doctors reaching retirement age in the next five years, will be twice as bad as previously estimated.
Prof Fergus O'Kelly, clinical professor of general practice, and his TCD colleagues, surveyed all doctors who had graduated from GP training schemes in the Republic between 1997 and 2003. They found that, although 70 per cent of GP graduates are female, almost twice as many males as females work at a senior partnership level in Irish general practice. And despite the overall gender balance in favour of female doctors, just 29 per cent of women GPs are working full-time.
Female doctors also worked fewer unsociable hours, with 51 per cent of female graduates involved in co- operatives and out-of-hours work, compared with 84 per cent of male doctors who worked nights and weekends.
Commenting on their findings, the authors say: "The 1997-2003 cohort inevitably reflects the greater family commitments of females, as women (in the study) who have not taken maternity leave have broadly similar working patterns to males."
A previous study by the same research team indicated a surge in the number of GPs retiring in the next five years. "These will be mostly males, who are currently working full-time. Our data show that current graduates are much less likely to work in full-time clinical practice, which will lead to a significant shortfall in the actual sessions available for patient consultation," the authors say.
Prof Tom O'Dowd, co-author of the study with Dr Aisling Ní Shuilleabháin and Mr Mark O'Kelly, said: "The feminisation of general practice reflects the pattern of entry into medical schools. It suggests a threat to the sort of personalised care that allows patients see the same GP for ongoing problems for many years."
But a senior medical source described the study as "a severe wake-up call. Clearly we have got the balance wrong gender-wise. We must now rectify this because political correctness will not look after patients."
© 2008 The Irish Times

**RebelliousVanilla** · 16th-March-2009

Quote from Feckless

My wife says this as well....and there is truth to that female doctors and part time thing. I had an article on it too....I´ll search for it tomorrow

Let's say I had a female gynecologist who was kind of... brutal. lol

Quote from brian44

Well for doctors it could be because more are now likely to be women who don't want to devote as much time to their careers as men would have in the past and many women drop out of medicine completely. Some men may have perceived a slight loss of status in the profession and chosen other more lucrative career paths. As far as nurses, I think many just go off to other countries with higher standards of living and pay. Many British nurses go to the US, Canada, Australia and New Zealand. Who can blame anyone leaving this miserable, damp little island off the coast of Europe!

I actually read somewhere that female asian medical graduates were often just looking to find better quality husbands and just went off and became wives and mothers when they found a good male doctor. Wonder how much that happens in the West.

The problem is across the board, not only for females. Look into the labour and leisure trade off. The time of a person is fixed and when you push the wages down artificially and keep them there the people will just trade labour for leisure since their income will stay the same or will be affected in a minute way.

**brian44** · 16th-March-2009

Quote from RebelliousVanilla

Let's say I had a female gynecologist who was kind of... brutal. lol

The problem is across the board, not only for females. Look into the labour and leisure trade off. The time of a person is fixed and when you push the wages down artificially and keep them there the people will just trade labour for leisure since their income will stay the same or will be affected in a minute way.

Male doctors are still committed to spending more years in their medical career and a lot more hours during the week.

**RebelliousVanilla** · 16th-March-2009

Quote from brian44

Male doctors are still committed to spending more years in their medical career and a lot more hours during the week.

That's due to certain attitudes that the anti-misandry movement fights against.

**brian44** · 16th-March-2009

Quote from RebelliousVanilla

That's due to certain attitudes that the anti-misandry movement fights against.

It's also due to the way our brains are wired: Men for a dominance hierarchy, women for reproduction.

**RebelliousVanilla** · 16th-March-2009

Quote from brian44

It's also due to the way our brains are wired: Men for a dominance hierarchy, women for reproduction.

Actually that's partially false. Both our brains are wired for reproduction. I could explain why, but I'm feeling lazy.

**brian44** · 16th-March-2009

Quote from RebelliousVanilla

Actually that's partially false. Both our brains are wired for reproduction. I could explain why, but I'm feeling lazy.

Both our brains are wired to perpetuate our genes, but we do this in very different ways obviously.

You should try looking at evolutionary psychology. You might learn something.

**Alexandra** · 19th-March-2009

I'm not against female doctors at all. My husband would prefer that I see a female doctor...he hates the idea of another man touching me.

I actually find that sweet in a way...like I'm his and no one else is going to touch me!

And for any feminists that are lurking...no, my husband does not beat me or treat me like a slave.

**musicman.2** · 19th-March-2009

Quote from Alexandra

I'm not against female doctors at all. My husband would prefer that I see a female doctor...he hates the idea of another man touching me.

I actually find that sweet in a way...like I'm his and no one else is going to touch me!

And for any feminists that are lurking...no, my husband does not beat me or treat me like a slave.

Does he see a female doctor? Are you ok with that? Do you see a male doctor even though he doesn't like it?