This is a discussion on Okay... within the General News anti misandry forums, part of the General category; So, I posted a comment on a Spearhead article today (the one about "Boys Not Being Boys". Not that big ...
- 20th-June-2012 #1
So, I posted a comment on a Spearhead article today (the one about "Boys Not Being Boys". Not that big a deal, I thought it was actually a great piece of writing, despite it being a bit more crass/bitter than what I've come to expect. No matter...I simply left a comment stating that although I'm a single, independent female I have nothing but gratitude for the men of the past and/or today who've been so necessary for the continuation of society. Big mistake.
Although I've commented numerous times and consistently gotten upvoted for those previous statements, I found I'd received an astounding 24 downvotes this time. I was quite amazed, as I'd thought my comment was pretty safe...little did I know that my claim of independence was such a ticking time bomb!
For after reviewing some of the responses made to me, that's what appears to have been so horrible. I won't post any of the replies here (look them up if you feel the need, I'm "Traveler" over there too) but it seemed I should become a hermit living up in the woods if I want to claim self-sufficiency of any kind.
Apparently, anyone who doesn't;
A. Grow their own food
B. Build their own car/house
C. Refine their own fuel
D. Tow their own garbage and/or
E. Craft their own clothing
is actually lying to themselves about their capabilities. It seemingly does not matter in the slightest if you work 65 hrs a week, or pay your rent on time, buy every one of your own belongings or have no spouse/mate to "lend" you money. If you aren't a guy, you have no right to say you're independent...
Now, I'll probably catch a little flak for posting this as it's not really a MRM issue, and for that I'm sorry. But I do have a pertinent question for my friends here on AM;
If so many MRAs are truly of the opinion that a woman literally CAN'T be independent in todays society, then why complain if they rely on men for a livelihood? If every single hour I work, every dollar I save or spend, every ounce of merit or knowledge I have is only from the grace of mangina-men trying to not pop my disillusioned "bubble of independence" and I'm ACTUALLY more of a child than a responsible adult, then why "tsk tsk" me if I act as said child?
Or, to phrase it another way...what else (besides a sex change) would a real/logical/thinking woman have to do to prove to the MRM that she is a fully functional adult capable of "fending" for herself as much as any common man "fends" for his livelihood in a society such as ours.
(Of course, I'm not condoning how typical women act nowadays. To divorce a man or issue a false rape/harrasment claim for financial gain is NOT what I'm talking about. That is a truly childish act, to attempt to ruin a life and seek profit from it. I'm only referring to women like myself who do have to work for a living, and who stay stable and self reliant without government aid/help.)
This is one of the very few things that I don't understand about the MRM, and it is a bit of a sticking point with me. If any of you can give me your thoughts on this, or examples supporting either side, I'd be much obliged. I'd like to believe that Ive not spent these last few years of my life simply "playing grown-up", especially as most of it has not been either easy or rewarding...
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- 20th-June-2012 #2
Sad... I've been there, done that. Ummm, gee, well, shite.... it's a men's masturbating site.
May I ask what part you want to play in our world? Perhaps its my son's world for I have adult children?
You can contribute well if you focus on what you want to achieve....Ignorance is the Oppressor, Vigilance the Liberator.
- 20th-June-2012 #3
- Member Since
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- My Blog Entries:
Feminism has been very successful in redefining many words, such as rape, equality, fairness, and one more word that has a 'feminist stench' about it is 'independent woman'. When words like that are used, it is understandable - at least within the realm of the MRM -for some, if not many, to assume you're using it from a feminist perspective and therefore you just might be a feminist sympathizer in the midst.
I would put it down to a bit of a misunderstanding.
However, as far as telling you that you can't claim to be independent while living under identical circumstances as many men, who we can assume are fine to claim themselves as independent, that is a double standard for sure.►My blog / Your Blog
The most offensive thing you can do to a feminist is treat her with FULL equality.Wife : "I dreamt they were auctioning off dicks. The big ones went for ten dollars and the thick ones went for twenty dollars."
Husband : "How about the ones like mine?"
Wife : "Those they gave away."
Husband : "I had a dream too...I dreamt they were auctioning off pussy. The pretty ones went for a thousand dollars, and the little tight ones went for two thousand."
Wife : "And how much for the ones like mine?"
Husband : "That's where they held the auction."
- 20th-June-2012 #4
I was invited to the spearhead soon after it started up by a fine chap who was a regular here by the ID of John Dias. I met a few other fine chaps who I recall used to post here..
Pretty soon, I got bored of the place.. I don't really like that format..
Folks limited to commenting on "articles".. Restrictive..
Paul Elam had a tantrum with me about taking the piss out of his "zeta male" concept.. I don't think he knew me very well and assumed I was just one of the usual tossers who like to rip everyones ideas up just for the sake of it..
Well, no, I do that in order that they can come back with something that isn't so easy to rip up! (Though the MRM is full of terminally unfinished ideas and concepts that just hang there waiting for the loose ends to be tied up..)
Like Julie says, the place looks like a mens wanking shop.. Intellectual masturbators paradise, and there are other sites like that which I won't mention!
They talk and talk and pontificate. About things that its clear many of them have only a very limited knowledge of... And at the end of the day.. They achieve what?..
A good way of persuading blokes that the world is so horrible to men that men would be better off building a log cabin from what they have consumed and hiding in that for the rest of eternity..
Or holing up in their mothers basement, attic rooms, and spending all their time researching the many ways men can be bummered..
When was the last time a man claimed to be "independant?".. I never hear it said by any group other than women..
Every man knows how we all depend on each other.. And those folks who refine their own fuel, tow their own.. whatever..
I hope they also dig the ore from the ground, to fashion the tools they need to do these things.."Women...
They are so willing to respect other men but the man they make love to and is the father of their children –no way. They try to control him, criticize him,,, " Courtney www.womenlivingwell.org
- 20th-June-2012 #5
As for what part I'd like to play...well, I'm a very good listener, and I tend to understand men-speak better than woman-speak. (Hence, my friends are all male.)Thus, I'd eventually like to help men who need a real ear to turn to their issues, and be someone who can be trusted. I'm unsure of how old your children are, but I'm 25, so "my" world may be "their" world?
- 20th-June-2012 #6
I've come to expect the MRM to dislike such obvious stupidity (like girls being allowed on boy sport teams but not vice versa). Then again...people are people, and men have emotions too. Sometimes one can get carried away, especially on the faceless internet. Methinks I'll post a gentle reply tomorrow and smooth some feathers.
I think there has been too much generalization of women. It is feminists who are the ones causing the trouble. No matter how many women are feminist, being a woman does not make her a feminist. Generalizing about women should be used more carefully than it has been.
Feminists use the generalization of men far too often. If one does not wish to be on the same mud grubbing level as feminists, then be more selective in the terms used. It's feminism that is evil, not women.Our society puts a premium on beauty; common in declining cultures.
Get'm young enough, and the possibilities are endless. -- Unleashed: Danny the Dog
- 20th-June-2012 #8
But, they did these things for the benefit of society, not individuals. Every single item we use/own can be traced back to the manufacturers, the builders, the growers...one member of society relies on another. I thought that was the whole point
Last edited by Popadibs; 20th-June-2012 at 06:29 AM.When I do this, and I know I will, it will be comparable to the lame learning to walk, the blind being enabled to see and the suffocated breathing again. The sky isn't the limit; there are no limits.
- 20th-June-2012 #10
Probably Marx said it best that it has a 'feminist stench' about it. The phrase "independent Women" is often used by media (at least in US) as meaning women dont need men, or men should be shoved into the background or similair to the old feminist saying "women need men like a fish needs a bicycle". Its generally used by journalist as an anti male propaganda term. You'll notice, the media never uses the term independent man.
Also remember, that not everybody on the Spearhead has the same opinion and goals.
Sad... I've been there, done that. Ummm, gee, well, shite.... it's a men's masturbating site.
- 20th-June-2012 #11
The spearhead is a good blog and Welmer is amongst the best writers in the manosphere IMO, the comments section can be a rough house though and why not?, it's just folk spouting off and the odd real gem of wisdom pops up occasionally.
Trav:If you aren't a guy, you have no right to say you're independent...
As felix alludes to above, all life is dependent, in society we all depend on someone to do something, manufacture something, deliver food, fuel, keep the lights on the whole infrastructure maintained etc, etc, The totally "off grid" person would need to be more self sufficient but would still be dependent on certain things even if he did make his own tools from flint and wood.
In the end no one can really claim to be independent but only to what degree they're less dependent.Those who are too smart to engage in politics are punished by being governed by those who are dumber. ~Plato
- 21st-June-2012 #12
Traveler, although most of us here know from your previous posts that you mean well, the phrase "independent woman" is like a red rag to a bull in the MRM - just too many feminist connotations.
'pzreb' and 'nivek' got it exactly right.
We're all dependent on others in some way but the feminist definition implies that all men (rapists and pedophiles don'tcherknow) are surplus to requirements and simply a nuisance that should be exterminated.
'Indpendent woman' is too loose a term. It implies being independent of any particular man but still (and perhaps unknowingly) still highly dependent on male technology and a mostly male-funded state. The objection from most MRAs is that western women see it as a badge of pride without truly understanding what they're saying.
- 21st-June-2012 #13
- 21st-June-2012 #14
Curiouser and curiouser...
- 21st-June-2012 #15
Independence became a buzz word for feminists to throw at women to encourage them into the workforce, most men when growing up watched their fathers go to work in the morning and return home at night and new that once childhood was done with, that would be their life too, no choices, just that.
Necessity, is not independence.
Last edited by nivek; 21st-June-2012 at 09:01 PM.Those who are too smart to engage in politics are punished by being governed by those who are dumber. ~Plato