Men afraid of fatherhood, UBC prof says

**Wallet** · 6th-June-2008

Men are getting "stage fright" and turning away from fatherhood because many can't afford the "props," such as a house, that they believe are necessary to being a good father, according to research presented yesterday at a conference of Canadian academics in Vancouver.

Nathanael Lauster, an assistant professor of sociology at the University of B.C., examined more than 60 years of U.S. census data, focusing on the characteristics of "privileged" men -- those with the highest incomes -- as a way of developing a social measuring stick of good fatherhood.

"People seek to emulate the people with privilege and how they perform fatherhood," he said.

In the 1940s, almost all privileged men were employed, married and had stay-at-home wives when they became fathers, Lauster found. Owning a home was relatively uncommon.

But starting in the 1970s, a shift occurred in which stay-at-home wives became less common, while owning a home became a more socially important "stage prop" for good fatherhood, but became more difficult to afford, he said.

Over the past several decades, fewer men have been able to attain the good fatherhood "stage prop" of home ownership, he found, and those who do only manage to do so later in life.

That has contributed to lower fertility rates because some men simply choose not to father children, and to more single motherhood as men flee fatherhood responsibilities, he said.

Lauster appeared at the Congress of the Canadian Federation for the Humanities and Social Sciences, a gathering of more than 9,500 academics.

Stage Fright??? bs.

I would say child custody laws, alimony and you lose your shirt etc etc etc is the real reasons.

There is nothing in it for men anymore.

Link

**FFFF** · 6th-June-2008

Quote from Wallet

Stage Fright??? bs.

I would say child custody laws, alimony and you lose your shirt etc etc etc is the real reasons.

There is nothing in it for men anymore.

Link

Thats the basis of some stage fright, plus ,most women are slags anyway not fit for the job!!

**Incognito** · 6th-June-2008

Quote from FFFF

Thats the basis of some stage fright, plus ,most women are slags anyway not fit for the job!!

FFFF...when you first started posting in this forum your comments weren't nearly so misogynistic as they are now. ("most women are slags anyway not fit for the job")...what happened?

Back to the original post on this thread: I think that everyone (men and women) are shying away from parenthood. It IS costly to raise children. Nearly unaffordable on one income, but with two incomes there is no one home to care for the kids and the household. So either way, it seems harder and harder to afford having children. Most people are just trying to make ends meet.

**FFFF** · 6th-June-2008

Quote from TERA

FFFF...when you first started posting in this forum your comments weren't nearly so misogynistic as they are now. ("most women are slags anyway not fit for the job")...what happened?

You may think its misogynist to be of the opinion that most women are slags, but when you get to understand what I define as a slag and why I and many men dont want to marry or have kids with women like this, then maybe you would understand. You may still think I am a misogynist, but my views have not changed.

Back to the original post on this thread: I think that everyone (men and women) are shying away from parenthood. It IS costly to raise children. Nearly unaffordable on one income, but with two incomes there is no one home to care for the kids and the household. So either way, it seems harder and harder to afford having children. Most people are just trying to make ends meet.

Yes, while driving big cars, paying for holidays everywhere round the world, running up 3 figure phone bills monthly. etc..
They make their choices. At the end of the day, men dont want to marry and have kids with slags!!

**Percy** · 6th-June-2008

Nathanael Lauster, an assistant professor of sociology

Poor bloke was just trying to get the points. Sociology is the professing of bullshit and to be an asst. prof is an invidious role. It tells everyone that he hasn't yet spouted enough garbage to earn the points for a full professorship. Its a struggle as so much opportunity has been taken from sociologists by feminists. And they used to be such friends too.

**yohan** · 6th-June-2008

Quote from Wallet

Stage Fright??? bs.
I would say child custody laws, alimony and you lose your shirt etc etc etc is the real reasons.
There is nothing in it for men anymore.

It's for sure not about marriage and family with children, it is about what will happen to a man, if something goes wrong, and in about 70 percent of all marriages, something is going wrong.

Who pays over a considerable time - over decades?
It's the ex-husband/father.

Does it matter, if he was cheated, even if he is not the biological father of the children?
No, he has to pay anyway, regardless if there was any wrongdoing by him or not.

Simply said, if you marry and have children, you as husband/father depend SOLELY on the good or bad mood of your wife.
She has the right to do with you what she wants...

She wants to be with you, OK - but IF she does not need you anymore, she kicks you out of your own house, taking over your property and still expects you to pay for her and the children over decades.

How do you feel as a husband/father subject to such laws?

Maybe a husband/father is something like a tool?... If broken or not useful anymore, away with it...easily replaced.

Show me - even a small - advantage, any right - you might gain as a husband/father nowadays...but there is none....a clear seamless separation: obligations to one side - rights and advantages to the other side.

Who is this man, who will agree to such a sale-off of his own person? This can only be a man, who is desperate and indigent.

**Dylan MacVillain** · 6th-June-2008

Quote from yohan

It's for sure not about marriage and family with children, it is about what will happen to a man, if something goes wrong, and in about 70 percent of all marriages, something is going wrong.

Who pays over a considerable time - over decades?
It's the ex-husband/father.

Does it matter, if he was cheated, even if he is not the biological father of the children?
No, he has to pay anyway, regardless if there was any wrongdoing by him or not.

Simply said, if you marry and have children, you as husband/father depend SOLELY on the good or bad mood of your wife.
She has the right to do with you what she wants...

She wants to be with you, OK - but IF she does not need you anymore, she kicks you out of your own house, taking over your property and still expects you to pay for her and the children over decades.

How do you feel as a husband/father subject to such laws?

Maybe a husband/father is something like a tool?... If broken or not useful anymore, away with it...easily replaced.

Show me - even a small - advantage, any right - you might gain as a husband/father nowadays...but there is none....a clear seamless separation: obligations to one side - rights and advantages to the other side.

Who is this man, who will agree to such a sale-off of his own person? This can only be a man, who is desperate and indigent.

Great post, Yohan.
It is not so much fatherhood that men are afraid of as it is husbandhood.

**FFFF** · 6th-June-2008

Quote from AKUUS

Great post, Yohan.
It is not so much fatherhood that men are afraid of as it is husbandhood.

Many men are fearful of fatherhood. Not just the financial aspects either..

Some reasons for this I have noted are DIRECTLY caused by feminists and there attempts to INCLUDE men in family life!!

Whereas men used to simply go to work and make money, as their primary roles family wise..

Feminism tried to shift child care etc towards men in families, this was not always wanted by men.

I know men who say the following things..

1. I would marry a single mother with another mans kids, because I dont want the responsibilty of my own kids, but dont mind other peoples!

2. I would not want to be a father because i would have to engage with my kids to a level that I could not be arsed with..

Personally, I can either ignore my kids or get involved in every aspect of thier lives. I make that choice as I go along..

Feminism practically DICTATES what and when mens involvements should be..

No wonder men fear it..

**yohan** · 6th-June-2008

Quote from TERA

I think that everyone (men and women) are shying away from parenthood. It IS costly to raise children. Nearly unaffordable on one income, but with two incomes there is no one home to care for the kids and the household. So either way, it seems harder and harder to afford having children. Most people are just trying to make ends meet.

1 -
It's not EVERYONE...(= equality a la feminist style...)

A woman has a choice, she might choose abortion, adoption etc. Nobody can force her to be a mother.

A man has no choice, a man might be forced to act as a father (to act as a father = to pay) even if he is not the biological father, even if he is only the sperm-donor for a lesbian couple...

2 -
You might raise children with one single income, IF the wife is willing to cut down considerably HER expenses/and possible 'career'.
My wife was never working when our 2 daughters were still small.
My wife was working only, after the children were grown up to help to pay invoices from 2 universities (one from Canada, one from Japan) - about totally USD 3000,- per month (impossible for me to pay that as the sole wage-earner).

Now our children are almost 30s and my wife (same age as me approaching 60) is not working and my salary is easily good for both of us.

It depends on the wife, and not on 'everyone' - If men are afraid of fatherhood, there are good reasons for that.
My wife is an Asian wife and not a feminist-minded US/Euro hook-up bitch+trashgirl.

It depends also on existing laws in the concerned country.
I am not living in Europe/America, but in Asia, family laws are not against me as a husband and father.

I was never afraid of fatherhood, why should I?

**Kim** · 6th-June-2008

As a mother, I can't imagine many things worse than not being able to see my children, not being able to raise them, to tuck them in bed, to be there for every important event, every holiday, their first date......Men are deprived of this all the time. If I was a man, I would be very scared of getting married and having children, knowing that the state has the ability to take it all away from me if my marriage ends like 50% of them do, in divorce.

**FFFF** · 6th-June-2008

Quote from Kim

As a mother, I can't imagine many things worse than not being able to see my children, not being able to raise them, to tuck them in bed, to be there for every important event, every holiday, their first date......Men are deprived of this all the time. If I was a man, I would be very scared of getting married and having children, knowing that the state has the ability to take it all away from me if my marriage ends like 50% of them do, in divorce.

yes, but in doing so, men deprive themselves of what could be good.

Its up to them, but its not what I think is the logical way.

**yohan** · 6th-June-2008

Quote from Kim

As a mother, I can't imagine many things worse than not being able to see my children...

http://women.timesonline.co.uk/tol/l...cle4052406.ece

Well, Kim, this is you, but other 'mothers' are thinking differently,
read more ... of course the 'mother' is the victim, but....just 2 example -

More than 150,000 UK mothers live apart from their children. as courts increasingly give custody to fathers

Two years ago Marie Cartwright, 39, from York, walked out of an abusive marriage, leaving behind her two girls: Elizabeth, 6, and Charlotte, 2. I desperately wanted to take the girls with me but all I could afford was a single room in a shared house, she says. The only other option was a homeless shelter.....

She moved away, leaving behind their 2 daughters - 6 y.o. and 2 (!!!) y.o. with the 'abusive father' - and was surprised, not to receive the children, child-support and alimony from her husband when filing for divorce.
The article continues...

Some members of Marie's family refuse to forgive her. Her own mother hasn't spoken to her since the split.

Even her own mother does not agree with her.

And another article,

http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/femail...-children.html

Why more and more women are losing custody battles over their children

...her career - and the fact her salary was double that of her husband's - became a major bone of contention in the marriage and the couple split when their son was five. .....

'Then Jason (= ex-husband) dropped the bombshell that he was applying for custody.'
Despite giving up her career, when Jane (= ex-wife) was in court she found she was being compared unfavourably to her husband and his new wife.

'In court, the judge mentioned my career and studies and the fact Dominic was left in afterschool clubs until I was able to collect him.

'Jason's new wife had a nine-to-five job as an administrator, so the judge ruled that my son would have more of a family life with them.

'Incredibly, the court deemed that my aspirations made me as unfit a mother ...

Money is not everything - The ex-husband found obviously another wife, who accepts and takes care about HIS child, despite she is not the mother and is earning much less than his ex-wife.

Kim, just a question,

What do you think about such 'mothers' - What should a divorce court really do?
And I am sure, these ex-husbands do not receive any child-support- money from their ex-wives.

**julie** · 6th-June-2008

Yohan,

Money is a big factor. Father's groups have mentioned the FC giving the mother day to day care (custody in NZ) so that the father can provide.

Now women who earn higher incomes can support the way the man did.

These women DO pay child support.

**yohan** · 6th-June-2008

Quote from julie

Yohan,
Money is a big factor. Father's groups have mentioned the FC giving the mother day to day care (custody in NZ) so that the father can provide.
Now women who earn higher incomes can support the way the man did.
These women DO pay child support.

In your country maybe, but not in a truly feminist fortress like my native Austria/EU.
It is clearly mentioned in the law, that child support has to be paid ONLY to the biological mother.
We had a funny case about 2 years ago, after a divorce, there was a boy 15 y.o. and a girl, 4 y.o....
The boy wanted to stay with his father, but the mother took the girl with her.

The court accepted that decision.

Now, the ex-husband/father has to pay child support for the daughter 4.y.o. to the ex-wife, despite she lives in the same rooms with her boyfriend (the man she was cheating her ex-husband) and both are working full-time and have together a very good income.

However, the ex-wife, despite working full-time, needs not to pay anything to the ex-husband, who has no other choice but to remain single (who takes a divorced husband with a boy 15 y.o.?) and has only a small income in a rural area (the main reason why the ex-wife left him and moved in the city to her boyfriend)

Which child requires more money, the boy 15 y.o. or the girl 4.y.o.?

I think, feminists in New Zealand have still something to learn.
Men must feel to live like in a paradise over there.

In Europe (Spain, Italy) we (we=women) are talking already about gender-specific income tax, men pay more, women pay less, despite both are earning the same salary for the same work.(reason: salary gap, women are poor)
Women in UK want to abolish jail terms for women and close down all prisons for females (reason: women are different)

My country has already gender-specific traffic signs, as too many traffic signs are showing a male-like figure (like construction site) and it should become an offence to introduce the wife, married with you, with the words: This is my wife....this is degrading an independent female individual to slavery status...Not to talk about the removal of urinals in Sweden in elementary schools, as boys should not do what girls cannot...

**shaazam** · 6th-June-2008

todays smart men are not so eager to become peonage slaves to a feminist pea n thimble exponent

one who uses the Family Court to bludgeon him into a 'deadbeat dad'

so rather than pay off an exorbitant mortgage to a cunning feminist he would rather holiday at Acapulco and let the butthead front the Star Chamber instead