Well, isn't this what feminists want? Equality? Wymyn would have done the same thing, and maybe even grabbed a few folks to use as shields.

I'd like to think that I would never do such a thing, but one can't know for sure until it happens.

maybe she was a slag and it wasnt his kid anyway.. Who nose?

"Fight or flight" can depend on many things I suppose, subtle differences in ones state of mind can make one a hero or a coward.

Yesterdays hero can easily become tomorrows coward

I've added tags to your thread to help organise content... You can also add tags when you create a thread to help organise the content. Adding tags is really easy & available on the same page as the new-thread stuff...

Here's what I read on the story:


http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...3E1oYns1xBu1ew

What I couldn't find was just who is calling this man a coward. Would whoever that is call the men cowards who were separated from their families on the Shanghai docks as the Japanese Army approached? A crowded theater in sudden panic over a lethal threat is no place to go judging people for how a fleeing mob sorts out its numbers. And what is this business about him driving away? The Daily News piece says they were reunited outside the theater, whereupon they went to the hospital for the young lady's sake and decided to become man and wife.

Coward????

This looks, even on further reading since my original posting of this, like a really big example of the absolute necessity to consider the source when making judgments about news items. And for myself to think carefully about the reactions I have to them in any of our discussions here.

These are a lot of ifs but...

if we judge men and women using objective and consistent standards...

if most people flee and save themselves in dangerous situations...

and if the minority of people that save others are exclusively men the majority of the time...

and if every woman, in these given situations are a part of that majority of people who save only themselves the majority of the time...

and if men who save others are considered courageous...

and if men are deemed cowards for saving only themselves...

should women not also be deemed cowards if this is consistent with reality?

Labeling the man a "coward" is just not right, nor "temporary insanity". If he would have been shot and killed, he would have been a hero in the eyes of the masses. A dead Hero. With all the bullshit spin put on the incident and the tragedy, isn't it a bit premature to immediately judge someones actions of self preservation?

Quote from Popadibs

These are a lot of ifs but...

if we judge men and women using objective and consistent standards...

if most people flee and save themselves in dangerous situations...

and if the minority of people that save others are exclusively men the majority of the time...

and if every woman, in these given situations are a part of that majority of people who save only themselves the majority of the time...

and if men who save others are considered courageous...

and if men are deemed cowards for saving only themselves...

should women not also be deemed cowards if this is consistent with reality?

Some very salient points for all to consider.

Quote from The Possible Human

Labeling the man a "coward" is just not right, nor "temporary insanity". If he would have been shot and killed, he would have been a hero in the eyes of the masses. A dead Hero. With all the bullshit spin put on the incident and the tragedy, isn't it a bit premature to immediately judge someones actions of self preservation?



Some very salient points for all to consider.

A wise man told me that evil persists because the good do nothing is a lie. He told me that evil persists because most people are passively evil. He is right.

People may not do the evil themselves but they embrace it that it may continue or they may do evil things in passive or passive aggressive ways.

Quote from Popadibs

A wise man told me that evil persists because the good do nothing is a lie. He told me that evil persists because most people are passively evil. He is right.

People may not do the evil themselves but they embrace it that it may continue or they may do evil things in passive or passive aggressive ways.

I agree.

Some good comments chaps.

To put it nice and simply I would say:

To use your own body to shield others = heroic

To use another's body to shield your own = cowardice

To run from danger in order to preserve your own life = sensible

Edit:

Having looked at those three choices for a brief moment, the first could also be described as stupid, the second as sensible (in terms of self preservation) but the third .......... I can only describe one way and that remains ......sensible.

Seems we have a few philosophers here.

Nivek certainly has it right.

It would be hard to imagine any kind of moral code where (3) wasn't sensible.

But (1) and (2) provoke many complex questions.
(1) When is heroic to shield others by sacrificing yourself and when is it stupid?
(2) When is it cowardice and when is it sensible?

"To put it nice and simply" has no place in moral philosophy, that's the responsibility of religion, which is out of fashion right now.

Don't take it hard Nivek, I have the correct answer, "It depends..."

We live in a world of desperate hero-worship, and harsh and final judgment of those spotlighted by pundits and bloggers as villains.

There is a feminist undercurrent here, and fortunately the young mother doesn't seem to have succumbed to it, against mounting interference online with her choice of a husband. That is that a man ONLY has worth if, given an opportunity to sacrifice himself that would please others' comfortable judgment of his actions in circumstances they do not have to endure themselves, he does just that and makes himself another dead hero.

I haven't heard of anyone saying, "when I was in a different crowded theater and a different gunman opened up on us, I didn't get separated from my family or wonder what to do once I knew I was safe but others I loved weren't as the rampage continued and people were still choking the exits. I climbed up on the roof, dropped through a service hatch onto the balcony, got out my Leatherman and snuck up behind the bastard and cut his throat."

In other words, nobody doing the judging here knows fuck-all what they're talking about. Just another attempted online mass lynching by people with nothing better to do than comb the news looking for an easy way to feel morally superior.

Jamie made the choice to save himself. It wasn't the "heroic" choice but it was the "human" choice.
With that being said, a hero can be anyone and not just a dead guy.

Quote from dinohip51

In other words, nobody doing the judging here knows fuck-all what they're talking about. Just another attempted online mass lynching by people with nothing better to do than comb the news looking for an easy way to feel morally superior.

Post of the week!