Excellent comments BD

A very typical feminist paradigma. They condemn women for making 'the wrong' choices or in other words, choices that don't fit within the feminist agenda.

The hypocrisy is truly infinite.

Spot-on, BD It's as if many feminists are telling other women, "Do what you want with your lives-as long as we approve of it".

I don't generally watch beauty pageants/contests, but that's beside the point.

Quote from byslexic_danana

...and pointing out that the contest was ONCE held in a country that oppresses women.

I agree - as I often do - with most of your comment but I take exception to this phrase.

I presume you refer to Nigeria, where the legal code allows for the death sentence of men and women guilty of adultery. Both men and women in the country support this legal code and the fact that a woman was found guilty and punished under the law for her actions does not make the country "one that oppresses women" any more than if a woman were jailed for stealing.

Some people might not like the fact that adultery is punishable by death but those nations who have such laws might be looking to the West and seeing the results of how Western nations try so hard to not punish anyone for adultery that they actually reward women for being adulterers and family-breakers.

Quote from Douglas

I agree - as I often do - with most of your comment but I take exception to this phrase.

I presume you refer to Nigeria, where the legal code allows for the death sentence of men and women guilty of adultery. Both men and women in the country support this legal code and the fact that a woman was found guilty and punished under the law for her actions does not make the country "one that oppresses women" any more than if a woman were jailed for stealing.

Some people might not like the fact that adultery is punishable by death but those nations who have such laws might be looking to the West and seeing the results of how Western nations try so hard to not punish anyone for adultery that they actually reward women for being adulterers and family-breakers.

Looks like feminists can, on occasion, fool even ME. Telling only part of the story, such as "WOMEN get stoned, for adultery", whilst 'forgetting' to mention the other part, such as "MEN do, too", is a feministic tactic.

Even if Nigeria WAS an oppressive nation, towards women (which we have no evidence that it is, it would seem), though, this wouldn't make holding the contest there an act of sexism or misogyny, as the female writer was trying to make out; bit of a 'red herring', to be honest.....

Quote from Zoe

And finally, as a mother there are a few things you hope never to hear your daughter say... "Mum, I want to be Miss World" has got to be up there.

I'm sure most of us here can think of far worse things. Things like "I'm doing drugs," or "I don't care about being unhealthy," or "I don't want to work," or "I'm having an affair" or even (horror of horrors) "I'm a feminist."

As a father, I'd be proud of my daughter if she wanted to enter a beauty contest and only concerned if she thought her physical beauty was all that was important in life.

This was Zoe's argument:

Miss World started in the enlightened age of 1951 when women were banned from lining up alongside men to race Marathons but not, sadly, from lining up like cattle to be judged on their ability to look fit in a bikini. That, right there, tells you all you need to know about its utter wrongness.

We really do not need a beauty pageant masquerading as a worthy cause - it has raised £250m for charity... in 61 years. That nobody takes it seriously and it has almost become a parody of itself doesn't make it right.

Organisers may well have introduced talent and intelligence categories in order to make the contest appear less sexist and bring it up-to-date - note they did not do this until after 2000 - but phurleese we know it's really still all about the 'beach beauty'.

The winners don't even change the world as they promise. Here are a few names for you: Ann Sidney, Rosemarie Frankland, Lesley Langley. Recognise any of them? No. Their achievements have been so stratospheric you haven't even heard of them.

And worse, Miss World has actually failed to embrace or further the rights of women at every opportunity. In 1974 the winner (Miss England, Helen Morgan, since you ask) was forced to hand over her crown after it was revealed she was... gasp .... shock horror... a single mother. In 2002 the contest was held in Abuja despite the decision of a Nigerian court to stone a woman to death for adultery.

And finally, as a mother there are a few things you hope never to hear your daughter say... "Mum, I want to be Miss World" has got to be up there.

I decided to do one more post:


Having done some research, Nigeria's legal code allows for both women AND MEN to be stoned to death, for adultery; so no issue of sexism, there.

Paragraph one, of Zoe's post: I don't see how the fact that women could enter 'Miss World', but not run marathons, has anything to do with the contest being sexist. That there was sexism, in the form of women not being able to run marathons, SIXTY YEARS AGO, has nothing to do with the contest being past its sell-by date - red herring.

Paragraph two: £250,000,000 in 61 years? Sounds like a worthy cause, to me, at more than £4,000,000 a year. Red herring.

Paragraph three: The contest is all about beauty? So? How is that sexist? Sexism is the belief that one gender is superior to the other; and judging women IN THE CONTEXT OF A CLEARLY DEFINED BEAUTY CONTEST, almost solely by their looks, does NOT suggest that females are inferior to males. I may swoon at the contestants, but it doesn't mean I'm going to go into my office the next day, and judge women there solely by their looks. Context is everything.

Paragraph four: if the contestants are so unwell known, what's the issue, anyway?

Paragraph five: As I said previously, what happened to the single mother in 1974 was a sign of the times, not the contest; the writer seems constantly to be blaming the contest, for societal norms at the time. This, also, was years and years ago, so not relevant to today; single motherhood seems to be ENCOURAGED, today - red herring. As regards the 'Nigeria' example, see my first paragraph.

Paragraph six: that depends on the mother, and on the age of the daughter. I wouldn't want to hear a pre-pubescent daughter of mine say this, but if I had a daughter who won this, I would be proud of and happy for her, just as I would if I had a son who won a contest which focussed on male beauty/physique.

Got your point in there, Douglas. If there's one thing that annoys me, it's how feminists demonise men, basically for finding pretty women attractive.

Quote from byslexic_danana

Looks like feminists can, on occasion, fool even ME. Telling only part of the story, such as "WOMEN get stoned, for adultery", whilst 'forgetting' to mention the other part, such as "MEN do, too", is a feministic tactic

LOL Yes. Apparently it's alright to put all efforts in supporting one gender just as long as they aren't directly attacking the other gender.

Douglas:

As a father, I'd be proud of my daughter if she wanted to enter a beauty contest and only concerned if she thought her physical beauty was all that was important in life.

I feel pretty much the same. What's wrong with celebrating female beauty?
You would think that feminists would love it since men can't compete - period.

Here in the Phils female beauty is something of a cult and there's a Miss Somewhere-Or-Other every five minutes. Not only that, the competitions have "sub-events" like , "most photogenic", "best in swimsuit", "best in evening-wear", "most pleasing personality"
etc, etc, etc.

I think Esther Vilar hit the nail on the head. Feminists hate men because they can't compete with them on a level playing field. Similarly they hate beautiful women because . . . . . . .

What happened to the "her body, her choice" argument? These feminists are behaving in the same controlling and domineering manner that they're quick to castigate men doing so. They've become the very thing they vehemently argue against. Yet more irony!

Zoe: The winners don't even change the world as they promise.

And conversely feminists ruin the world!