The black father 'crisis': Cameron backed by black mums and organisations

**frostyboy** · 27th-July-2008

Written by James Chapman for the Daily Mail: The black father 'crisis': Cameron backed by black mums and organisations

David Cameron echoed the words of Barack Obama yesterday by calling for absent black fathers to take more responsibility for their children.

The Conservative leader called for a 'responsibility revolution' to change patterns of behaviour.

Mr Cameron's high-risk appeal appeared to pay off, winning widespread support from leading members of the black community. They agreed that the lack of traditional family influences is a serious problem.

One of Britain's most prominent black police officers told the Daily Mail Mr Cameron was right to highlight a 'crisis in fatherhood'.

Detective Inspector George Rhoden, president of the National Organisation of Black Law Enforcement Executives, said: 'We all know that young people need both parents in their lives. This is a particular issue and we should be dealing with it at a governmental level, looking at how we can encourage black fathers to face their responsibilities.

'In the black community we are all aware that there is major concern with gun and knife crime. Clearly we are not the only part of the community affected by absent fatherhood but parental responsibility should be of major concern.'

Labour ministers have been anxious to play down the idea that the absence of fathers is a major influence on crime rates. Around 59 per cent of black Caribbean children and 54 per cent of mixed-race youngsters are looked after by a lone parent. In the white British population, the figure is 22 per cent.

MPs who have investigated the problem say that in the absence of a male role model, many young black men choose to emulate negative, violent lifestyles popularised in some black music and in films.

The charities Barnardos and Babyfather warn that boys and young men can develop 'father hunger', a state which leaves them vulnerable to peer pressure.

Mr Cameron said that Mr Obama had been 'absolutely right' to warn in a recent speech that some African American men were behaving like teenagers and abandoning their parental responsibilities.

He said that many black church leaders had expressed their concerns to him about absent fathers in the UK.

'They are concerned about family breakdown and social breakdown, and want to see what I call a responsibility revolution take place.'

The Tory leader said the discrimination and economic disadvantage black people experienced had to be addressed, but insisted: 'We will never solve the long-term problems unless people also take responsibility for their own lives.'

Mr Cameron has suggested that a Conservative government would introduce powers to 'compel' fathers to look after their children in an effort to tackle gang culture. He backs tax breaks to help families stay together and promote a 'culture of responsibility and respecting authority'.

The Reverend Nims Obunge, chief executive of the Peace Alliance, one of London's main organisations working against gang crime, welcomed Mr Cameron's remarks and urged him to back them up with concrete policies.

Tony Sewell, director of Generating Genius, a charity which encourages black youths to study science, said: 'This is an issue that needs to be discussed, and Cameron is well placed to discuss it, as it is in keeping with the current Tory agenda around social investment. This used to be very much a Labour agenda, but Labour isn't delivering on it.'

And what do the women themselves have to say? LORRAINE FISHER interviews four women who have personal experience of the problem of absentee black fathers.

Marva Thomas, 36, lives in Hackney, East London, with her husband Owen, a 36-year-old self-employed builder. They have a three-year-old daughter, Cutania, and a son due in October. She says:

The culture with black parents is that when you split up, you don't see each other any more. I don't know how you can change it.

Black fathers need to step up to the plate and say to their ex-partner: 'Let's do this together' because if a boy sees his father run off, he thinks it's OK for him to leave too when he has a child.

Men leaving their children within black society is part of the culture.

Most men get involved with a woman simply on a sexual level - yet the women think they're in a relationship.

The moment they become a father they say: 'No, I'm not ready for that, I want to be free and single'.

In Jamaica, where I'm from, ghettos have taken over.

Ghetto people think if a man isn't wearing this and doing that, they're not a man. They feel they have this image to live up to.

And the girls are silly. Despite the man they're seeing not taking care of his child at home, they move in with him, thinking it will be different for them. Of course, when they get pregnant, he moves on.

Men's attitude is: 'If you want a baby, I can give you a baby - but don't expect me to look after it'.

I don't remember my mum and dad ever living together. He was there for weekends although when I was about 11, it stopped. He was cheating and Mum wouldn't put up with it. He didn't really pay child support so my mum was working more than one job to support us.

It hurt me to see my friends going to the movies with their fathers when I couldn't, but it hurts sons more, although they don't feel able to show it. So they start taking things out on women.

My brother, who's two years older than me, didn't know how to talk about it. And he never forgave my father for leaving us.

He missed out on love from his father and there was no one to instil principles and values into him - like how to treat a woman and how to be a man. He has three children by three different women. He even denied the first child was his.

Because so many black men leave their families, I do worry about my daughter's future.

I'm in a good marriage but I want her to have a career, to be independent, so she can support herself and her children if a man leaves her.

Judith Valentine, 44, lives in Ladywell, South-East London, with her four sons - Ashley, 15, Stefan, 14, and 13-year- old twins Karl and Kallum. She says:

I was divorced 11 years ago and the boys' father doesn't help with anything and they don't see him.

I've tried to get money from him but it's like getting blood from a stone and although he's had the chance to see them, he hasn't.

It's common in the black men I know. I know they may begrudge their wife but I don't know why they'd stop seeing their kids.

Bringing up four boys on my own has been hard. I've just qualified as a teaching assistant and am looking for a job, but for most of their lives, I've been on benefits.

You can't give your children what they want - you try to explain why they can't have the latest trainers but they won't accept it.

They need a father figure. I'm just a mother, I can't give them fatherly advice and I don't know what they're going through. But I'm trying to bring them up the right way.

I hope my sons don't abandon their children, I hope they say: 'I'm not going to do the same to my kids'.

If a mother puts her mind to it, she can be as strong a parent as a man. The problem comes if they are too soft - that's where the children go wrong.

If a boy sees weakness, it's natural for him to try to dominate. You have to really put your foot down.

I come down on mine like a ton of bricks - I won't let them out at night, they're in by 9pm. They listen to what I say.

I don't think any more black men leave their families than white men, or fathers from other races, but it is a problem and it needs addressing.

Anne Marie Smith is a 43-year-old counsellor from Camberwell, South-East London. She has a 17-year-old daughter, Simone. She says:

There are many more black one-parent families than Caucasian or Asian. It's a crazy situation but one that people aren't open about.

I think they're fearful of people playing the race card or of stereotyping black males for not being around their children.

I think it's caused by a combination of things. There are some black men who pull their weight but not many - and women play a part in that.

If you allow your child's father to treat you a certain way, it will continue, it won't improve.

Black women are independent and just get on with it, but we should make sure we have more solid relationships before we get pregnant.

My daughter was about one when I split up with her father. She says she hasn't missed out because we're quite close and she has seven uncles.

It's different for boys, however - they need a role model and there are no prominent positive role models at the moment.

There is no expectation that children will do well, they're not monitored or disciplined. Discipline is hard for a single mother to administer to a boy.

I think black men have to learn they have to own their responsibilities. You can't get a woman pregnant and walk away.

But I don't know how you can do that. Black men need to provide the answers.

Patricia Brown is a 42-year-old factory worker from Catford, South-East London. She has three children - Joseph, 29, and Kerrin, 26, from one relationship, and Peter, 20, from another. She says:

What David Cameron says is not racist - black fathers do need to take more responsibility.

They have children here, there and everywhere because they know the responsibility lies with the mother. They need to be educated and sent to parenting classes.

It's now getting out of hand with teenagers stabbing people - something needs to be done but there is no quick fix.

The problem is, when men leave their families, the mothers have to work so the children grow up on their own with no father figure or role model. There is no one to set boundaries or let the children know there is always a consequence.

Fathers rather than mothers have the power to make their children get home at a certain time or challenge them about why they are carrying a knife.

A single mother is often too tired to even ask how her children's day was at school. And I should know.

I didn't mean to get pregnant at 13 but I did and I thought I was in a good relationship.

We had a second child but then I found out he had two other children with two other women so, when my daughter was seven, I ended the relationship.

So many black men who finish their relationship with the mother also finish their relationship with their children and forget about them.

Luckily, my children's father saw them at weekends but even so, I had to work five, often six days a week in a factory to make ends meet, then I had to go home to do all the washing, cooking and cleaning. It was exhausting.

But I don't think my children have suffered - I've made them independent. Joseph is married and has an 18-month-old son. He was old enough when his father left to know he didn't want to do that.

Kerrin has a five-year-old daughter - the father went off with someone else.

**christianj** · 27th-July-2008

It's the usual story, boy meets girl, girl wants to have baby, boy has no say and boy is forced into servitude for 18 years..

This is what happens in just about every situation. Women decide to get pregnant by not taking birth control or lie about taking it and when the deed is done, surprise I am pregnant.

Once Men have a say in that area then the figure can be pointed but while they have no say or input then women should go it alone as it's a lifestyle decision they make and demand that everyone else chould pay..

Black women have the worst attitude I have ever come across in on top of that the pregnancy or having kids outside marriage is the highest in the world the last I looked at about 70%..

Now it's time for them to held accountable andjustify their excistance but that won't happen the blame will always veer away form the main culprit as that is the female herself...

**Percy** · 28th-July-2008

While I am vociferous in my agreement that fathers are made slaves of by unscrupulous women aided by the State apparatus, I nevertheless have made my position on responsibility very clear - whether black or white or yellow or friigin' purple. BOTH parents are totally, individually, jointly and sevarally, wholly accountable for the wellbeing and support of their children. No ifs, no buts.

If a woman does not want to get pregnant, she should keep her knickers up and her knees together.

**GrizzlyPenguin** · 28th-July-2008

What Percy said. The real issue with this "crisis" is more than just black parents, but ALL parents. I've said it before on this site too how bad parents have become. We send a message to Obama reminding him of this as well as the rest of the world that it's not just something seen in one race, but all. Of course, we should also mention that the way women demonize men when it comes to this situation is ridiculous as well. Women who lie/stop taking pills to get pregnant without their man's consent happens probably at least 2/3rds of the time (should probably check out the percentages on that to be more specific), though I'm sure if we let that truth out we would immediately be attacked and "shut out".

You know though, besides that, if we really want to change the ignorance that has been induced into our society, we need to stop trying to ONLY use out logic/common sense against these ignorant women and find MORE women like Kelly. There is nothing more convincing than finding someone who's supposively on your side telling you how wrong your "facts" are. Seriously, we can logically "riptose" and counter every argument feminist and misandriast have, but they're not going to listen to the people they were programmed to demonize.

**julie** · 28th-July-2008

I will ignore the "Blame the woman comments" as they are standard for this site.

If this was a real community discussion they would be a few other reasons given. But hey, that is for the community.

............

It is the same here in NZ. The call for fathers exists, the support exists but the fathers don't come.

This is one of the reasons feminism ideology stays. There is no other opportunity at present.

They say on some research publications that fathers are becoming more of a parent but the truth is .... they are struggling to even get fathers to participate in research.

Men are not as open as women.

**Marx** · 28th-July-2008

Quote from julie

I will ignore the "Blame the woman comments" as they are standard for this site.

If this was a real community discussion they would be a few other reasons given. But hey, that is for the community.

............

It is the same here in NZ. The call for fathers exists, the support exists but the fathers don't come.

This is one of the reasons feminism ideology stays. There is no other opportunity at present.

They say on some research publications that fathers are becoming more of a parent but the truth is .... they are struggling to even get fathers to participate in research.

Men are not as open as women.

You say a lot of stuff and it seems to waver one day to the next as to which agenda you slant in favour of... But, I'm concerned about how much you really know. Do you know half as much as you claim? You claim you're in Africa (profile)... but we know you don't really. I sometimes wonder about your claims...

**julie** · 28th-July-2008

Quote from Marx

You say a lot of stuff and it seems to waver one day to the next as to which agenda you slant in favour of... But, I'm concerned about how much you really know. Do you know half as much as you claim? You claim you're in Africa (profile)... but we know you don't really. I sometimes wonder about your claims...

Oh, you are talking about my profile saying Africa. I am amazed you are open to my age being 98.

You have forgotton Marx how I screwed up my profile and I asked for your assistance and you then asked me what I had done. (BTW, I don't expect you to remember for you have much to do here and in life).

Anyhow, I told you that I was trying to be like everyone else and unknown. I couldn't change my name.

But I see where this has gone and to tell you the truth, I feel like one big idiot to even try to help now.

I can't show links every time back to NZ menz or single parents to back up my claims. When you step up for something you are a part of the community. You get e-mails asking for participants. And you have the opportunity to follow up. Alot of work goes into sites and the people who run them contact every person who has been mentioned so they can reply.Most don't but it gives great opportunity for someone like me to follow up on their views and feelings and thoughts. It is all about teamwork in NZ.

If you give clients - you get access to research.

It is just the way the community works.

But you must have more than enough groups out there to tell you what is going on. You don't need me to tell you.

And I don't need to be treated like shit. Because I am not shit.

**Marx** · 28th-July-2008

Quote from julie

And I don't need to be treated like shit. Because I am not shit.

Who is treating you like 'shit'? I recall the occasion where you messed up the profile... by changing your email, your account was set to 'awaiting email authorization' (meaning, you had to click a link in an email that was sent to your new address - and hadn't)... hence, you couldn't change any more of your settings (until clicking the links in the email). I recall partly because a friendly fella had been ranting about censorship and trying to convince everyone that I was censoring everything... and so, you walked right in and said to the effect of: "Wahhh you've fucked up my account on purpose, just xerd said you did to others...wahh." After the rant, you then asked "or was something I did as I've been editing my profile?"
Anyhoo, it's gone 6am and I need sleep. Got an appointment to keep for 10am... if I can wake in time.

**julie** · 28th-July-2008

Quote from Marx

Who is treating you like 'shit'? I recall the occasion where you messed up the profile... by changing your email, your account was set to 'awaiting email authorization' (meaning, you had to click a link in an email that was sent to your new address - and hadn't)... hence, you couldn't change any more of your settings (until clicking the links in the email). I recall partly because a friendly fella had been ranting about censorship and trying to convince everyone that I was censoring everything... and so, you walked right in and said to the effect of: "Wahhh you've fucked up my account on purpose, just xerd said you did to others...wahh." After the rant, you then asked "or was something I did as I've been editing my profile?"
Anyhoo, it's gone 6am and I need sleep. Got an appointment to keep for 10am... if I can wake in time.

I too am on a journey here. I don't have to like the people I am on it with any more than you or anyone else has to like me.

But I know I am making a commotion in NZ and I don't have an agenda yet.

Sure, I could drop my involvement and think about it. But I know myself well. I will toss this because something else will take my time.

Maybe this is one of those journeys you make alone. And come out with one opinion being your own. And then just get on with life and have fun. (BTW, life isn't all fun) Still .... go your own way in the world. Why not, everyone else is doing it.

**Percy** · 28th-July-2008

It is the same here in NZ. The call for fathers exists, the support exists but the fathers don't come.

And why is this?

Do you think it just might - might - have something to do with putting a hand in the fire?

Men are villified and demonised by the 'authorities' and the Departments and the NGOs and every damned 'group' including friggin' dog trainers.

Society HAS TO CHANGE, Jools, for men to ever trust it again. This means WOMEN have to change. It is women and their fellow-traveling manginas that have fucked up society's 'groups' and systems and Institutions, and it is hardly surprising that men don't come.

All these elements have to make men welcomed and listened to. They have to apologise and make restitution.

Tell me this Jools, would you go back to your ex? The one who abused you. Or would you just expect more of the same if you did?

Society that you want men to go back to has given men far more abuse than even murdered women have got. It has taken men's lives and children and meagre wealth; it has dispossessed them and cast them into a living hell. Men don't want to come back as they have no reason to expect anything but more abuse.

You want things to change.

We want things to change.

But we do not TRUST some of those sitting on fences directing venom this way and that. We prefer our own venom, directed as it is, well and accurately.

**julie** · 28th-July-2008

Quote from Percy

Society that you want men to go back to has given men far more abuse than even murdered women have got. It has taken men's lives and children and meagre wealth; it has dispossessed them and cast them into a living hell. Men don't want to come back as they have no reason to expect anything but more abuse.

Then it is simple. Don't go back. I only want what is best.

But the least you could do is help men go somewhere. Ah, but you have. They can do their own thing. Be one individual in the world but with values. That seems perfect really.

Males just have to let go of the old ways and move forward.

That is a perfect agenda.

...........

I wrote hear some time ago my dilemma with the council asking me to stand for best community worker of the year. The men on the ground have asked me what they should do. I sold the MRM online as real.

..............

But then you have to let the women work out things for the children and the women.

They will be held accountable. This is all planned.

The children will be raised by the state. There is no other way.

**julie** · 28th-July-2008

Quote from julie

Then it is simple. Don't go back. I only want what is best.

But the least you could do is help men go somewhere. Ah, but you have. They can do their own thing. Be one individual in the world but with values. That seems perfect really.

Males just have to let go of the old ways and move forward.

That is a perfect agenda.

...........

I wrote hear some time ago my dilemma with the council asking me to stand for best community worker of the year. The men on the ground have asked me what they should do. I sold the MRM online as real.

..............

But then you have to let the women work out things for the children and the women.

They will be held accountable. This is all planned.

The children will be raised by the state. There is no other way.

Once again none of you MEN are going to understand what I go on about.

Can I just be a part ... and no-one care what I say?

That would be the best thing for you and I still gain at the same time. I haven't broken any rules at the moment.

**christianj** · 28th-July-2008

Percy
Society that you want men to go back to has given men far more abuse than even murdered women have got. It has taken men's lives and children and meagre wealth; it has dispossessed them and cast them into a living hell. Men don't want to come back as they have no reason to expect anything but more abuse.

Even having been invovled in the MRA battle I am very hesitant to be included in any survey as in most cases it's just another method of male bashing and the opinion you give will just be used in a negative fashion..

Most of the surveys and research is about women so why in the hell am I even remotely interested in being involved.

Twice bitten thrice shy..