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Should women get special treatment?

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  • Should women get special treatment?

    A reader from the restaurant industry raised a good point in a recent email to me. Here's what she had to say:
    "There is growing debate among better restaurants (not super high end) about whether woman should still get their order taken first, served first, or wine poured first. For a great neighborhood restaurant, are all bets off? Can a waiter just go around the table and take orders, or should he or she start with the women?"
    If you look around restaurants on any given night most of the time women have the prime seat -- looking out over the dining room while the men mostly stare at the wall. This represents what's considered good manners, and most men don't give it a second thought because it's a custom that's so ingrained in our culture.
    I'm somewhat of a traditionalist, and so I always let my guests order first. I'm a tad uncomfortable if the waiter begins with a man when there's a woman present. Yet I wonder if this is a passe view.
    I'd love input on this, because this issue reflects a collision between the modern emphasis on equality of the sexes and long-ingrained patterns of what is considered proper.
    What do you think?
    How ridiculous.


    http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/...entry_id=20982



    If men get second class treatment all the time let women pay for every meal.

  • #2
    Re: Should women get special treatment?

    Quote from musicman.2 View Post
    How ridiculous.


    http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/...entry_id=20982



    If men get second class treatment all the time let women pay for every meal.
    I didn't know there was etiquette to this...but I guess it doesn't surprise me.

    However, I would argue that having one's order taken second isn't really "second class treatment." After all, the waiter/waitress can only conceivably take one order at a time. What should he/she say? "Excuse me, who's paying for this meal- I need to know right now so I can take your order first?" Or, "excuse me, I noticed there are two of you and if one of you is paying for the whole meal, I'll seat you in the window seat. The other can face the wall."

    Awkward.

    You know, when I go out to dine in a nice restaurant, I'm usually the last one to know what I want (call me indecisive) so there's never really an issue about who gets their order taken first. I'm last every time and it's a.o.k. with me.

    You know, if two people are really bent on not enjoying their night out together they could eat at a round table not anywhere near a window- perhaps in the center of the room where there's the most noise and distraction, and draw straws to see who should get their order taken first and then they could argue over who's going to pay the bill.
    Last edited by Incognito; 4th-June-2009, 05:05 AM.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Should women get special treatment?

      Quote from TERA View Post
      I didn't know there was etiquette to this...but I guess it doesn't surprise me.

      However, I would argue that having one's order taken second isn't really "second class treatment." After all, the waiter/waitress can only conceivably take one order at a time. What should he/she say? "Excuse me, who's paying for this meal- I need to know right now so I can take your order first?" Or, "excuse me, I noticed there are two of you and if one of you is paying for the whole meal, I'll seat you in the window seat. The other can face the wall."

      Awkward.

      You know, when I go out to dine in a nice restaurant, I'm usually the last one to know what I want (call me indecisive) so there's never really an issue about who gets their order taken first. I'm last every time and it's a.o.k. with me.

      You know, if two people are really bent on not enjoying their night out together they could eat at a round table not anywhere near a window- perhaps in the center of the room, and draw straws to see who should get their order taken first and then they could argue over who's going to pay the bill.
      But that's the thing the guy usually pays. In addition the guy usually gets the crappy seat. In addition to all of that the guy gets served last.

      Its not thought about. its automatic. which makes it worse.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Should women get special treatment?

        Quote from musicman.2 View Post
        But that's the thing the guy usually pays. In addition the guy usually gets the crappy seat. In addition to all of that the guy gets served last.

        Its not thought about. its automatic. which makes it worse.
        My own observation: when a woman tries to pay, the guy she's with feels either 1) embarrassed, 2) insulted, 3) irritated, or 4) that he's just walked into some kind of feminist twilight zone and is unsure how to respond or feel about it.

        That's dilemma number one.

        Dilemma number two: the "crappy" seat. Doesn't the couple just sit down without really any direction from the waiter/waitress? I don't know, maybe I've never been in a fancy-enough restaurant-? because I've never actually been told which seat to sit in, or had a waiter/waitress pull out the chair for me and motion for me to sit in it. I've been in some really nice places though. And every time, we decided for ourselves which seats to sit in, and really it was done without any forethought.

        Dilemma three: served last. I've never been in a nice restaurant where the meals weren't served all at the same time. In fact, I've never been to a less-than-fancy restaurant where the whole table's meals weren't all served at the same time.

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        • #5
          Re: Should women get special treatment?

          http://www.ajc.com/blogs/content/sha...etiquette.html

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Should women get special treatment?

            http://www.seriouseats.com/2008/10/s...tauraunts.html

            I would like to say that I pour beer out of ordered pitchers for every table, and the way I do that has caused problems. It becomes a problem when I pour the man's beer first. I always do this, and I have a reason...the first beer has more head. Therefore, the better beer is the second. I have had many men hand their first pour beer to their dates...but I do it for a reason. I am actually looking out for the woman and giving her the better pour.

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            • #7
              Re: Should women get special treatment?

              No.

              Unless she does something special for me, first. Get your minds out of the gutter... I am a married man.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Should women get special treatment?

                I don't think women should get special treatment.
                If she can sit at the table she can pay for her on meal without her boy toy!
                I wasn't raised to be chivalrous, my daddy wasn't a nice guy but he taught me everything he knew.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Should women get special treatment?



                  MM...do you drink? Do you care who's beer has more head on it? In decent restaurants, the head is removed from all the glasses (and glasses filled to the top) before they are brought to the table.

                  This is really getting kind of silly.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Should women get special treatment?

                    Quote from fcb98292 View Post
                    No.

                    Unless she does something special for me, first. Get your minds out of the gutter... I am a married man.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Should women get special treatment?

                      This is a small matter for most people, shirley?.

                      I have dined in all sorts of situations, modestly and finely, in high class environments and low. I have sat at the Top Table with Aristocrats and Lords of Industry. I have lunched at a strictly private function with a Vice -Presidential candidate at his personal invitation as a friend. I have dined with men and women of Rank. I have sat down to dinner with my peers in full Mess Kit and Medals in a Truck-stop, much to the amusement and delight of the truckies who watched us tuck in to real trucky food washed down with the finest of trucky tea in mugs.

                      I suppose some unkind minds might have thought we were taking the piss, but we were actually honouring the working chap.

                      If I am out with a woman that I love, or am even just mildly friendly with, I will want her to be treated with dignity and kindness. It is how I would treat her. And I would want to be treated the same by her. They are the important matters, not who gets the menu first. Indeed, at every place of even minor quality I have ever been to, both get a menu and/or it is written on a board which both can read. Also I would ask what she would like to eat, giving her an opportunity to determine that for herself. I expect the same consideration.

                      Special treatment? Yes. I expect any woman I am with to get special treatment. I expect getting special treatment myself. The company I keep is far more important than the place and the waiters are there soley to serve well and add to the ambience. I expect from them good service and good manners. These days, that is special enough.
                      When in need of a drink to Refresh the soul
                      Drop into the Knight & Drummer Free House.
                      Always leave a Comment as a tip.

                      Cum dilectione hominum et odio vitiorum
                      Love the Sinner but not the Sin.

                      “For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against Principalities, against Powers,
                      against the Rulers of the Darkness of this world, against Spiritual Wickedness in high places.“
                      (and within ourselves)

                      A Feminist is a human being who has lost her way and turned vicious. If you meet one on the road as you
                      Go your Own Way, offer kindness but keep your sword drawn.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Should women get special treatment?

                        Quote from TERA View Post
                        MM...do you drink? Do you care who's beer has more head on it? In decent restaurants, the head is removed from all the glasses (and glasses filled to the top) before they are brought to the table.
                        What the....why do you do this to your beer?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Should women get special treatment?

                          What the....why do you do this to your beer?
                          Astonishing, ain't it.

                          The Americans have never grasped what the 'head' on beer is for.

                          In fact they haven't got much of an idea about beer.

                          I once did a tour of an American beer factory (they only 'call' them breweries) and watched a batch of beer being made. The chaps filled a barrel with water and then brought the company gnat in, in its cage. The cage has a small hole at the bottom and the gnat's pee drips into the barrel. Just a drop is all they need per 50 gallons of water.

                          Then they pop a fizz pill in and seal and pressurise the barrel.

                          Apparantly Americans drink lots of it.

                          Strange people really. Did I tell you of what the Hottentots drink......
                          When in need of a drink to Refresh the soul
                          Drop into the Knight & Drummer Free House.
                          Always leave a Comment as a tip.

                          Cum dilectione hominum et odio vitiorum
                          Love the Sinner but not the Sin.

                          “For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against Principalities, against Powers,
                          against the Rulers of the Darkness of this world, against Spiritual Wickedness in high places.“
                          (and within ourselves)

                          A Feminist is a human being who has lost her way and turned vicious. If you meet one on the road as you
                          Go your Own Way, offer kindness but keep your sword drawn.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Should women get special treatment?

                            Quote from Percy View Post
                            The cage has a small hole at the bottom and the gnat's pee drips into the barrel. Just a drop is all they need per 50 gallons of water.
                            Thanks Percy, I needed to push half my breakfast away, anyhow.

                            Reminds me of when I taught my wife how hotdogs were made. Should have seen her face when I told her there were chicken buttholes in every chicken frank!

                            Although the Aussie babe I had in college never mentioned the gnat. Probably a good thing, as I did do a tad of drinking in college...

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Should women get special treatment?

                              Quote from Percy View Post
                              Astonishing, ain't it.

                              The Americans have never grasped what the 'head' on beer is for.

                              In fact they haven't got much of an idea about beer.

                              I once did a tour of an American beer factory (they only 'call' them breweries) and watched a batch of beer being made. The chaps filled a barrel with water and then brought the company gnat in, in its cage. The cage has a small hole at the bottom and the gnat's pee drips into the barrel. Just a drop is all they need per 50 gallons of water.

                              Then they pop a fizz pill in and seal and pressurise the barrel.

                              Apparantly Americans drink lots of it.

                              Strange people really. Did I tell you of what the Hottentots drink......
                              You should checkout the shitty beer that some Mexicans drink!!

                              Comment

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