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  1. #1
    Tyrael's Avatar
    Tyrael is offline Style & coordination Administration
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    Prison - a cruel and unusual punishment for a woman

    Prison - a cruel and unusual punishment for a woman
    Jailing mothers for trivial offences is harsh on them and their children. But the Government has lost its nerve on reform

    From The Times
    July 1, 2008
    Joan Bakewell

    She - let's call her Jean - has been out for some years now. She's rehabilitated, has a flat, a mortgage, a job and a partner. I was one of the friends who supported her through a bleak and discouraging time in a woman's prison.

    Prison staff and governors were supportive too, for many of them know how hard prison is for women. They told me as much, and so did Jean.

    Yet she is one of the minority who manage to stay out. Reoffending rates have been soaring - 64 per cent of those released in 2004 were reconvicted within two years. Something had to be done. It was.

    A report by Baroness Corston in December 2006 set out a shocking catalogue of women's suffering that make radical proposals essential. She suggests closing 13 women's prisons and replacing them with a network of 150 custodial family units in city centres. There was cross-party agreement to accept her report. But the Government has now rejected its central proposal and an important social gain been scuppered either by lack of money or out of fear of an uproar from the right-wing press.

    It's hard to imagine another arena of public life where the difference between men and women is as marked as it among prisoners. Women are not, on the whole, members of the criminal classes. They are basically law-abiding. Prison is certainly not one of the places where women aspire to equal treatment. The family is central to their world view and their lives revolve round it. The criminal justice system, developed in Victorian times, modelled the idea of women's prisons on the male institution, without enough thought about the differences between the sexes.

    But these differences matter. First and foremost, women bear and look after children. That makes it essential that they serve their sentences within reach of their families. Yet because there are relatively few women's prisons, visitors have to travel much farther - in 2007 the average distance from home was 55 miles; about 800 women were held more than 100 miles away. Those precious visits that offer so much in emotional support are harder to make to women prisoners.

    There are only 4,500 women in prison: more than half - some 3,000 - have dependent children under 18 years of age; about 1,000 have children under 5; another 1,200 have children between 5 and 10. When such women go to prison childcare falls to grandparents, foster parents or care homes. It doesn't take much imagination to see how traumatic this is for children, especially if they come from chaotic and deprived homes in the first place.

    The passionate attachment to a mother, even if she is a thief or a fraudster, is a basic determinant of a young person's wellbeing. Corston reckons that 18,000 children a year are affected by what is a cruel punishment that they have done nothing to deserve.

    Ah, but if a woman persists in a life of crime she must take the consequences. But more than a third of adult women in prison have no previous convictions.

    Women's crimes are most often - 36 per cent - theft and handling stolen goods, crimes that may go hand in hand with the men they know who are doing the thieving and asking for a bit of help: “Pop this in the back of the wardrobe, love, until I come and get it.”
    Full article is here.

    It's hard to imagine another arena of public life where the difference between men and women is as marked as it among prisoners. Women are not, on the whole, members of the criminal classes. They are basically law-abiding. Prison is certainly not one of the places where women aspire to equal treatment. The family is central to their world view and their lives revolve round it. The criminal justice system, developed in Victorian times, modelled the idea of women's prisons on the male institution, without enough thought about the differences between the sexes.
    If they are so law-abiding they would not end up in prison dumb-bitch author.

    But these differences matter. First and foremost, women bear and look after children. That makes it essential that they serve their sentences within reach of their families. Yet because there are relatively few women's prisons, visitors have to travel much farther - in 2007 the average distance from home was 55 miles; about 800 women were held more than 100 miles away. Those precious visits that offer so much in emotional support are harder to make to women prisoners..
    She can't handle real equality. She uses children as a excuse to free criminal women from prison, exempt them from normal justice with according punishments. Again children are used as shields for women to get what they want such as with "family court" (Divorce Corporations) to extort a unreasonably large amount of money from fathers without rights. She wants another Pussy Pass, double standard, female-privilige which is NOT in line with equal treatment of all humans.
    ~ Support Fathers & Families for Father's Rights and Equal Parenting! Go to fathersandfamilies.org ~

    ~ Fathers & FamiliesTM improves the lives of children and strengthens society by protecting the child’s right to the love and care of both parents after separation or divorce. ~

    ~ Feminism = Every bad thing any man has ever committed highlighted and exaggerated; every bit of good systematically undermined, vilified or ignored. ~

    ~ A man needs a woman like a lion needs a stove. ~

    ~ Women deserve only equal opportunity, not equal outcomes. ~

    ~ Men are not collectively "guilty" of anything. ~

    ~ Never needing to be pregnant is a blessing. ~

    ~ Feminist ideology “men have to respect women, but women have no reason to respect men” ~

    ~ Everybody makes choices, and nobody should be entitled to special treatment because of those choices.
    Equal results based on unequal treatment amounts to no kind of equality at all. ~

  2. #2
    shaazam's Avatar
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    Re: Prison - a cruel and unusual punishment for a woman

    "It's hard to imagine another arena of public life where the difference between men and women is as marked as it among prisoners. Women are not, on the whole, members of the criminal classes. They are basically law-abiding. "

    I think a system should be developed for wimin in sentencing for crimes where if the wimin gets say life for murder they should hang the judge instead cause gaol is not where wimin criminal want ta be

  3. #3
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    Re: Prison - a cruel and unusual punishment for a woman

    Jailing mothers for trivial offences is harsh on them and their children.

    It's exactly the same for fathers in the same circumstances, yet men still go to jail.

    Where would feminists and women be without the ubiquitous pussy pass and hiding behind children? Answer: In the same place as men!
    But the Government has lost its nerve on reform

    No, the government has lost it's nerve on punishing women "equally" to men. That loss of governmental nerve has created a two-tier system of law and punishment based on gender.

    If such a proposed 'reform' is only benefitted by women, then that in itself by definition is in need of reform.

    The hypocrisy never ends!

    This is the same bitter feminist, who, on a political programme when discussing boys underachieving in schools and universities, said to David Frost, with a contorted seething grimace etched on her face, "good, I don't care about that, girls are taking over, it's our turn now."

    Isn't it disturbing and indicative how so many feminists have now extended their misandric war on men to include even mere boys. Is this not one of the most grotesque examples of modern feminisms moral vacuum?
    Last edited by Celtic Druid; 2nd-July-2008 at 12:47 PM.
    The wicked flee when none pursueth. Proverbs 28:1

    'Rise like Lions after slumber In unvanquishable number - Shake your chains to earth like dew Which in sleep had fallen on you - Ye are many - they are few.'

    Percy Bysshe Shelley

    "When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty. "
    Thomas Jefferson

    The internet has been a lifeboat for men's opposition to the floodings of feminism.
    Celtic Druid

  4. #4
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    Re: Prison - a cruel and unusual punishment for a woman

    The criminal justice system, developed in Victorian times, modelled the idea of women's prisons on the male institution, without enough thought about the differences between the sexes.
    It's amazing how feminists flip flop from stating there are no differences between the sexes, as it's a social construct. To then when it suits them, citing gender differences as a reason for preferential treatment.
    The wicked flee when none pursueth. Proverbs 28:1

    'Rise like Lions after slumber In unvanquishable number - Shake your chains to earth like dew Which in sleep had fallen on you - Ye are many - they are few.'

    Percy Bysshe Shelley

    "When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty. "
    Thomas Jefferson

    The internet has been a lifeboat for men's opposition to the floodings of feminism.
    Celtic Druid

  5. #5
    bola's Avatar
    bola is offline Established Member
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    Re: Prison - a cruel and unusual punishment for a woman

    In the feminist mind women are equal or better :-)

  6. #6
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    Re: Prison - a cruel and unusual punishment for a woman

    Quote Quote from bola View Post
    In the feminist mind women are equal or better :-)
    I believe they think they are superior..

    But that women that cut the child from the womb the other day in America doesn't deserve jail, she only deserves therapy..

    She was the victim.

  7. #7
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    Re: Prison - a cruel and unusual punishment for a woman

    I got a couple of lines in and just couldn't read anymore. It is the same old bullshit. Men = Bad, Women = Good. If women didn't deserve prison there would be no female crime at all!

    The fact that women do commit crime shows they aren't all sweetness and light and using the fact that they have kids is a poor argument.


  8. #8
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    Re: Prison - a cruel and unusual punishment for a woman

    Thanks to feminism, if a woman goes to jail, she can shower in front of male officers. Everything she's been taught about male oppression is now going to come from "bull daggers" (a term of prison origin).

  9. #9
    anti-progressive adam's Avatar
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    Re: Prison - a cruel and unusual punishment for a woman

    I for one am all for prison reform. I think the system is inhuman and makes people become more animalistic than they were before.

    But prison is harder on women than it is on men? What a load of bullshit! When was the last time you heard of a woman being raped by her inmates? (Physiologically impossible).

    I don't believe anyone deserves to raped. I'm for prison reform in the sense that all inmates should be protected against assault. You don't need to be assaulted to not want to go to prison.

    But this dumb feminist author probably thinks its personally fine that men who are in for not paying enough taxes get raped and possibly killed by their inmates, because its only bad if it happens to a woman.

  10. #10
    rohara's Avatar
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    Re: Prison - a cruel and unusual punishment for a woman

    Can anybody tell me whether this woman is actually being taken seriously? I mean for real. She makes the all too predictable assertion that it is more psychologically traumatic to women and children to be separated then it is for men and children to be separated. This whole passionate relationship between mother and child is oversold and it's total pokery. The fact that a man goes through an equal amount of turmoil (unless he is a psychopath which many inmates, both men and women to equal portions, are) when he is separated from his family is totally ignored
    This is creating a hyper privileged status for women and it is NOT EQUAL TREATMENT UNDER THE LAW. Penal systems are here for a reason, to deter crime. And to treat one group of people differently based on any criteria makes them less deterred. But of course, men are to blame for all women getting in trouble with the law so you can throw that idea out the window.
    Do not ever suppose that a small group of people can never change the world. INDEED it is the only thing that ever has.

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  11. #11
    rohara's Avatar
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    Re: Prison - a cruel and unusual punishment for a woman

    Quote Quote from bola View Post
    In the feminist mind women are equal or better :-)
    Correction:
    In the feminist mind women are superior in every way and do not deserver to pay any consequences for their actions or be accountable in any way when they do something irresponsible or pathologicaly wrong. Men are put on this earth to take the blame for everything.
    Do not ever suppose that a small group of people can never change the world. INDEED it is the only thing that ever has.

    Anonymous.

  12. #12
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    Re: Prison - a cruel and unusual punishment for a woman

    "Jailing mothers for trivial offences is harsh on them and their children..."

    Yes, tapping the father's availability would be cruel to the child. Having to spend that time with dad instead of mom would cause irreparable harm, mental distress and irreversable damage to self-esteem. Don't even THINK about involving the father in such a FAMILY matter between woman and child!

    Holding a woman equally responsible for their criminal actions, as you would a man, would similarly be harmful to the child. Doing so would be sexist!

    /sarcasm

  13. #13
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    Re: Prison - a cruel and unusual punishment for a woman

    Women are not, on the whole, members of the criminal classes. They are basically law-abiding.
    So what are they doing in prison then?

    Prison is certainly not one of the places where women aspire to equal treatment.
    So we pick and choose which bits of "equality" we like then?

    First and foremost, women bear and look after children. That makes it essential that they serve their sentences within reach of their families.
    So we do this without any help whatsoever from men then?

    Women's crimes are most often - 36 per cent - theft and handling stolen goods, crimes that may go hand in hand with the men they know who are doing the thieving and asking for a bit of help: “Pop this in the back of the wardrobe, love, until I come and get it.”
    36% is "most"? Not at the school I went to. And oh the tired old excuse "a big bad man made me do it"

    Great, we live in a society that doesn't want to hold women responsible for their own actions. What about all the violent female offenders, murderers and such? Just let them live in a nice cosy "family unit" with their children, and this won't be detrimental to the children? Please!

    It all boils down to the old saying "if you can't do the time, don't do the crime" and if these "ladies" don't want to be separated from their families by being imprisoned there is a reasonably simple answer. Stop committing crimes!

    People should be punished for their crimes, be they male or female. It saddens me to live in a society that women can basically behave in any manner they see fit without having to face the same consequences that a man would.

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    Re: Prison - a cruel and unusual punishment for a woman

    Quote Quote from Rinoa View Post
    People should be punished for their crimes, be they male or female. It saddens me to live in a society that women can basically behave in any manner they see fit without having to face the same consequences that a man would.
    Democracy can never be upheld when one group so influences the determination of another.
    The wicked flee when none pursueth. Proverbs 28:1

    'Rise like Lions after slumber In unvanquishable number - Shake your chains to earth like dew Which in sleep had fallen on you - Ye are many - they are few.'

    Percy Bysshe Shelley

    "When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty. "
    Thomas Jefferson

    The internet has been a lifeboat for men's opposition to the floodings of feminism.
    Celtic Druid

  15. #15
    6ame's Avatar
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    Re: Prison - a cruel and unusual punishment for a woman

    crimes that may go hand in hand with the men they know who are doing the thieving and asking for a bit of help: “Pop this in the back of the wardrobe, love, until I come and get it.”
    Let's go with her demented logic for a minute, let's agree that the only reason the vast majority of female prisoners are imprisoned is because men are pushing them into crime, let's agree that women are so naive, innocent and "law abiding", that they are easily pushed into committing crimes by men. Wouldn't that then mean, going on that logic, that if women are not to be imprisoned for their, sorry, their male partner's crimes, then more and more of these vulnerable, innocent, sweet naive women will be pushed into crime by their men, since they'll be guaranteed to avoid prison?
    So in a way, the less women are punished, the more crime they'll commit, or be forced to commit by men.

    I don't go with this demented logic, I only need to peek out my window from Thursday through to Sunday to witness many women who need to be locked up, whether it be for causing trouble, starting fights, fighting, or just generally being so repulsive, that it would benefit society to throw their arses in a jail cell.
    Hugh & Mary Discuss Feminist Related Issues (ALL SUBTITLED): http://www.youtube.com/view_play_lis...0081D259987DCD

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