https://www.facebook.com/groups/BruF...9&notif_t=like


I posted on their FB page with the hyper-sensitive man mock-up, and my award-winning act was quickly shot apart by their superior shooting down |33T skillz.

Quote from some weird guy who isn't me

Dear gosh, have you lovely ladies seen this post on an evil patriarchal website? Bruin Feminists for Equality (promoting misandry is now equality?) It's a mock up of your wonderful fliers about men being rapists and horrible brutal abusers of women .. I'm so offended that they'd turn it around like this, I feel physically sick (I'm a very sensitive man and am easily upset by things like this). How dare these men do things like this, to take your hard work and make a mockery of it?

Quote from samantha blanco

I know you're being disingenuous and sarcastic. You're contempt is so mildly veiled.

I'm sorry that people have misunderstood the dude tips as misandry, but that was not the intention. The tips are tongue-in-cheek plays on the advice women are given about "how to not get raped". The goal is to attempt to change the message from "don't get raped" to "don't rape".

The campaign may not have been as well-received or successful as we would have wanted it to be, but to declare us as man haters is to buy into media-fueled misinformation. It is my personal belief that you can't hate men and be a feminist. To do so is to misunderstand feminism completely. If you want to have an honest discussion, then let's. I'm not intimidated. My facebook profile is private and the meeting times and this page are public information.

I also understand if the dude tips have offended people. I know the average man is not a rapist or an abuser. That often it is a smaller pool of men that abuse a larger group of women. The point is to try to get a conversation going about rape and sexual assault, because too many people, most often women, live in shame and disempowerment at the loss of control they have over their bodies after they have been violated. However, rape is statistically under reported and it often doesn't include nuanced situations such as date rape, which is so often not reported.

However, rape, sexual assault do happen. And they happen on campus. The way the school handles and rape does more harm to victims than help and undermines the gravity of the situation. We're attempting to change a culture that blames victims for their assault rather than the people that commit them. If that means receiving some hate and blatant misogyny, than so be it. I am not afraid.


I mean to say "The was the school handles and REPORTS rape...".

Quote from still not me

Yes, I quite agree with all you've said. The only bit I don't quite get yet - which I hope you will explain to me - is how do you get misogyny from them doing a mock-up of your excellent dudetips fliers? I mean, sure it's horrible and silly, but I don't see how them attacking the fliers and pointing out who is responsible has anything to do with hating 'women'.

Quote from john bruning

Karl, maybe a better way to start—since I don't see anything about "hating women" in Samantha's response to you—would be to explain why people are upset about posters on a college campus with the intent that Samantha described (or to summarize, to remind men not to rape anyone, women or men).

And let's have an open and honest conversation about this, so if you'd like you can stop pretending that you're not involved in the original forum post. I'm sure you have a legitimate reason to think that men need to be protected in legislation, that fathers should have custody rights, and so on, so let's just get on with it. Part of me also suspects that, being British, you don't know the reality of what happens on campus and how the administration responds.

Quote from not me now either

John, You say Samantha didn't mention 'hating women', so perhaps you could explain what else she meant when she wrote: "If that means receiving some hate and blatant misogyny, than so be it"? To me, that appears to be saying that in the context of discussing the post I linked above, there is misogyny - which I understand means "hating women"?

Quote from john bruning

Well, I missed that part then, but still: I would consider posting women's names and photos (presumably to encourage hate mail and harassment, if not violence), encouraging others to register them in a "false rape" database, and implying that rape survivors are all lying about it to be "hating women".

Look, everyone else will probably hate me for this, but let's talk (or rather conversate anonymously in a facebook comment thread) man to man: why are you getting your knickers in a bunch about something that female students are doing 5000 miles away?

Quote from still not me, honest

The idea of posting who is responsible for creating a hate campaign against men is so the public know who is responsible for creating a hate campaign against men... nothing to do with hate male, harassment nor violence. Though I'm not surprised to see pro-feminists twisting it out of shape. It's standard form.

a) Shaming tactics, like 'getting my knickers in a bunch' is sadly predictable. Nice use of Brit-lingo though. b) I have lived in and have relatives in USA, regardless how far away individuals may be - I think promoting the notion that any man offering a lift might rape is downright hateful towards men - all men - men from all corners of the globe, whether they be 10ft from me or 5,000 miles from me. These posters are being fed into young & impressionable minds, filling the females with fear of any & all men and making men afraid to even consider offering support.

Quote from john bruning

Glad you liked that Anyways, here's the thing: when I saw the posters on campus, I didn't get that impression at all, and few people I've talked to did either. So maybe it's you and your forum members who are twisting it out of shape. And let's assume, hypothetically of course, that one of your forum members did see your post with their personal info and decided to harm them--would you feel responsible?

On the flip side of all of this is that on American college campuses, rape is very common (and not just women, men are assaulted as well), and universities are doing absolutely nothing to educate students about what the boundaries are. The reality is that the things described on the posters--as preposterous as they may seem--DO HAPPEN. The point (and not just of these posters, but the work that Bruin Feminists does year-round) is not to make everyone hate men or be fearful of men (I sure as hell don't feel like I'll be chased across UCLA by a torchmob of angry women any time soon) but to get men (yes, I know, it's not just men, but the vast majority are) to hold themselves and each other accountable for what they do when the police and administration won't, and educate women to be careful. And since the majority of rapes and assaults are committed by an acquaintance or friend, there is a serious issue of how students should defend themselves, when it's statistically more likely that the man walking you home will attack you, than anyone else along the way.
If you have a better idea of how to educate students effectively about this, please share.

Quote from ok, it might be me.. maybe

So you wouldn't take issue with fliers reading alike to "chicktip #2 - If upset by a recent ex-boyfriend, don't accuse him of rape falsely just because you can"? You wouldn't think it somehow implies all allegations are false? Or would you..? How about, "Blacktip #3 - If you're in a gang and see a nice car ... don't steal it"? How would that be?

If, in the highly unlikely event, something like you project did occur - Yes... I actually would feel responsible if I knew the assault was connected to my site/posts. Would YOU feel bad if a man pulled up in a car next to a woman walking home and offered her a lift, she took it the wrong way (based on your posters) and hurt him, e.g. shoot him, tazered him, peppered him, etc.? Somehow... I doubt it.

While rape does happen, it doesn't happen to the extent feminists pretend it does (e.g. in their fliers where they presume all men are 'potential rapists'). We also need to remember that rape should mean forced sex, not regretted sex or drunken & consensual sex. I mean, sure, if a woman IS passed out and a man simply assumes it's ok, that is rape.. but to have a few drinks, both be *equally* drunk but *only* he is responsible - that's wrong. How about we take it a step further and absolve women of accountability for their drunken decisions when they get behind the wheel while intoxicated?

It's also not as much men who rape as you suggest.. Many women do rape, but get away with it because the vast, vast majority of men wouldn't report such a case knowing their is zero support for them, knowing they will face endless mockery and knowing they will almost certainly not be believed. I could tell you of experiences I had with a 21yr old woman when I was 12yrs old... and yes, the police did get involved - to tell ME I was the bad one. Shocked? No, nor am I anymore... because, apparently, women are practically incapable of doing wrong.. it's always the patriarchy's fault - or a man's fault - or men's fault - or the XY chromosome's fault - or testosterone's fault - or some-other-male-related-element's fault.

I would suggest simply holding a semi-regular session on rape & sexual assault issues would suffice nicely, without the hysterical ramblings which imply 'any man might rape you any moment!!!' as these posters do.

You say you don't fear being mobbed by a group of angry women, sure.. But you're not the student in this case I daresay. You look a little mature for that role. This is clearly aimed at younger men who are potential hormone bombs waiting to blow-up.

Quote from rachel sanoff

The fellow developers and I of this campaign acknowledge the reasons why some men were offended by this campaign, and have been working to redesign our message. However, your analysis is lacking any consideration for the power dynamics that exist in our society. I notice that your examples of other potentially offensive posters only include blaming genders and ethnicities that are already systemically blamed for social issues of which they are the victims (rape, racial profiling, etc.), and are then oppressed through this ideology. While you and many men are not rapists, many of you (assuming you are white, middle class, and heterosexual) have the privilege of likely not having to go through life facing the type of structural violence and oppression manifested through victim blaming. Of course, that does not mean you do not experience other forms of discrimination or struggle, but it is irresponsible and incorrect to completely ignore the social status granted through white male privilege, and assume that a poster drawing attention to society's failure to blame perpetrator's of rape ought to receive the exact same reaction as a poster that blames women for rape or assumes all black men are criminals. One is already the dominant social narrative, the other is not, and that is the difference.

Quote from kt bender

tell me more about your world, in which we should assume women are default liars? I appreciate all the work Bruin Feminists for Equality does on campus to bring any attention to sexual assault. I'm sorry to hear about your experiences with assault, and give shouts again to BruFems for providing even the internet space for you to be open about it.

Quote from austin ford

The website hosting the thread Bassett posted definitely appears full-on wacked-out insane, though I can't see anywhere where Bassett himself implied that he believed all women are default liars.

Granted, given the rampant sarcasm and biting voice throughout his posts, he doesn't seem to be the most pleasant fellow, but some of his later posts, especially about what may be classified as his 'lived experiences' do deserve some legit attention. Bassett has a very legitimate claim about how certain social assumptions about gender caused him to be denied police attention when he experienced gender-related abuse a youth, and there is nothing wrong with his desire to end injustices similar to what happen to him.

However, the celebration of the personal attacks against Bruin Fem members is, at least in my opinion, where a clear line needs to be drawn.

Quote from ok,ok,it's me!

Rachel - Thanks for your reply. I am glad to see you recognise the problem that you and your team have created. This mentality only serves to reinforce the 'radical' feminist claims to the effect that 'all men are [potential] rapists', which most moderates try to distance themselves from... So why you would rely on it to gain support from anyone is beyond me.

No, I am not ignoring the power dynamics that exist - if anything, you are ignoring the power women hold over men in this day & age in order to justify the bigotry being displayed towards men of today for the alleged wrongs by men of yesteryear.

You cannot, for example, convincingly claim that white men are not systematically blamed for just about any & all wrongs, at the very least, by feminists. It is a constant attack against white men primarily, but men in general. Often, catchy phrases will be used to camouflage the attack on men, such as 'patriarchy' or and so on. As it happens, I am not middle-class or even near to. I live in government housing, I earn minimal wage, I am a support worker for adults with learning difficulties, I drive the smallest car in existence (well, maybe not quite but close) and I can barely get by month to month. Am I now excluded from your target group? Or is being white & male enough?

Where I'm from, our government relies heavily on being PC to avoid upsetting minority groups (as a former immigrant of USA, I know it's very similar there too) ... so when they develop anti-crime posters, it's almost exclusively a white male (even though female is far from a minority group). Being part of this lovely privileged group affords me the joyous experience of being profiled as bad by default on a woman's word alone. We are put in front of the court of public opinion by the media and the law... long before we're proven guilty or innocent. And for the vast majority of cases, when a man is proven innocent and the accuser is found to have broken the law by fabricating a rape story, she is still not prosecuted and she retains her anonymity. This continues to happen even in cases where the man has spent several years in prison.

A woman can get a man beaten senseless by a 'white-knight' (a dumb man who assumes women don't lie about anything, believes all she tells him and so 'defends her honour' by beating the accused guy until he's half-dead). A woman can destroy a man's family on her say-so alone. She can destroy his career, end his job, screw up his money, eliminate his relationship to his children or just interfere with it. She threaten any and all of the above.

And what can he do? Not a fat lot at all.

In years gone by, perhaps men could have done something (e.g. beat her into submission or threaten to)... but today men have no equalizer for a woman filled with hatred.

Men have no legal recourse to abusive women. Not only does society condemn a man who tries to exact revenge on a woman, the law supports an abusive woman and our systems are designed to ignore male victims. Again, this is something I speak with experience of.

KT - I have never said women are liars by default... unlike these posters which assume any man is a rapist, by default. These posters 'remind' men (collective) not to rape, as if it's the only thing men think about - how disgusting! I've been considerably more open about it on men's groups sites too - it's not a female thing, so let's not pretend feminists are somehow superior.

Austin - Thanks for your input, but I wonder how you managed to skip past the attacks made at me by others? I mean, what exactly is whacked-out-insane about men having equality under the law? For example, if a woman hits me - she should spend an equal amount of time in jail as I would if I hit her.. Yet, it is feminist groups that are demanding women's prisons be closed & pushing for women to do less time than men for identical crimes, etc. etc.

Why is equality considered whacked-out-insane to feminists?

Quote from austin

Regarding the men's rights websites, about 30% of what they talk about is spot-on correct. BUT, the other 70% rounds out to pure fascist bullshit hypocrisy. I've burned enough hours of my life reading both feminist and men's rights websites/blogs, and I can't tell you how many times I've seen these men's sites advocate for the abolition or weakening of divorce rights, shameful ridicule of the work of women in the military, or an end to abortion rights. It's like these people still live in the 1890's. It is not about 'equality' to many of them, it's about a hypocritical desire to return to the days of state violence and control over the lives and bodies of women, while at the same time criticizing the state violence against themselves.

Admittedly, both men's rights and feminist circles are far from perfect, but folks on both ends of the spectrum could likely have much better results by focusing their vitriol on the major power brokers like UC Pres. Yudof, Gov. Scott Walker, and corporate Democrats, instead of on each other.

Quote from me

I guess that depends on which sites you're going to. I know I *try* to post factual content on my site. If it is later proven wrong, beyond a doubt, I will remove content (I've had a number of people contact me asking for edits etc. and they've been granted)... I note you don't mention how much BS the feminists site give out though, strange that... I recall when I first got interest in this - I was researching something quite different and came upon a feminist site claiming that 95% of violence was against women, and of the 5% against men, most was in gay relationships... that claim didn't tally with my experiences. I contacted them asking for a source of their claims - several weeks later I gave up sending reminders. I saw on a men's site a claim that DV was closer to 50/50, which I also didn't believe (because television says only men abuse and only women are victims).. I asked them for proof. Within 24hrs they'd sent me a link to a government PDF indicating that women committed 46% of DV.

The next person thing, is pretty funny stuff...

Quote from Zubeda Dhada

‎"In years gone by, perhaps men could have done something (e.g. beat her into submission or threaten to)... but today men have no equalizer for a woman filled with hatred." Are you seriously suggesting that beating a woman, or threatening to beat a woman, was or ever will be a viable problem-solving tool for unstable behavior? I say unstable behavior because neither a woman nor a man is inherently good or bad, and the kind of behavior you are outlining is of obvious instability. I am only deciphering the smallest piece of your bone-shakingly terrifying argument because I am not going to give you enough of my time to truly deconstruct whatever logic you are operating by.

Quote from me

Zub, no I'm not suggesting anything of the sort. I'm saying that in times gone by that might have been an option some men may have done so... would you prefer I say no man has ever abused his strength, thus denying the feminist claims that men are abusive towards women? You're a bit strange, Zub... really.

Quote from Zubeda

My name is Zubeda, sir. You will address me as such.

Quote from me

LMAO - whatever, Zub-a-dub-dub.

Quote from Zub-a-dub-dub

Do not fool yourself into thinking you are performing a strategic ballet in altering the emphases of your verbiage. What I see so far, as an academic distillation of your logic, is riddled with fallacies. As an individual with training in psychology, I see your past coming into play in your future biases with a strength that speaks of near vengeance. As a political individual, I am shocked and shaken at your tone and slant and feel personally affronted that you have taken it upon yourself to seemingly single out individuals of a feminist group. Leave the Shakespearean dramas to the past, sir. Do not pretend you give us respect if you blatantly deny us the respect to face our critiques head on. In a discussion, one speaks of the pros and cons of worldly issues- one strives to seek truth. I will gladly do this with anyone who treats the discussion with respect and candor. This, sir, is not a discussion. I will not deem it as such until the recent activity- your attack on my friends- has been redeemed in my mind.

Zubeda Dhada A fitting comment considering my above dissection, Berty- you obviously do not treat us with respect.

Quote from me

Given your authoritarian attitude, I blow a raspberry in your general direction. I have no time for such ignorance & inflated egos as you've displayed.

Zubeda Dhada I could have said the same to you. Anyone who decides that it is their right and duty to seek out and attack politically active individuals for their political actions displays a far more bloated ego and a far deeper chip on their shoulder than any vocabulary could ever portray.

Quote from me

Yawn, it's getting late (early actually) here.. so where did the sane ones go that were talking in an adult fashion? Now I'm just left with a pleb and it's monolithic ego yabber noises.

Quote from Andrew

EY YO I'M SANE AND ALL I GOTSTA SAY IS YOU WACK

actually not sane, but really, you wack

Diana Sara Buck Ah yes, because blowing raspberries and making blind attacks on complete strangers is ever so mature. I do not believe anyone in this group has, nor ever will stoop to your level.

Quote from me

But making blind attacks on all men is mature too?

And, predictably, I was censored from speaking any more once they'd done with their silly games.
I had tried to post the below, but was denied... typical of a feminist site to ban when they can't argue in legitimate defense of their hate campaigns against men.

Quote from me, but denied by the boo-hoo-brigade

I treat people as I am treated - if they bring undue attention to themselves by spreading hateful bigoted suggestions about men (which I am one of), suggesting we're rapists by default without the needed 'reminders' from our superiors (feminists), I'm only too happy to help them spread their word by highlighting their work in public for them. I haven't attacked them at all - I simply posted who was behind the bigoted fliers.