This is a discussion on Stage 1: within the Feminist Flipside forums, part of the General category; Originally Posted by Karls submission to one feminist group
Below is the result of your web form. It was submitted ...
I see above you 'claim' to offer advocacy, support, and other services to women AND men (well, I must say - it's about time that feminists remembered men are people too). If this is so, I would be most keen to learn what advocacy you support in men's favour? Choice for men? Father's rights? Support for noncustodial's whose children suffer Parental Alienation Syndrome?
I'm not mocking you - but i find your claim to offer support to men difficult to believe. Unless of course, you meant: "we support men who are pro-feminist or female-supremacists, men who want equality in parent's rights or other departments are of no use"?
Please elaborate, as i am keen to know just how egalitarian 'your version' of feminism is, as my experience has repeatedly shown feminism to have desire for equality amongst men & women.
submit: Submit
Their reply:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Their reply
Subject: RE: Ask a Question
Thanks for your note. Your perceptions of feminists' desire for equality amongst men and women is a correct assumption. While I can only speak for myself (as the diversity of feminists is like the diversity of all
humankind) I can tell you specifically how we serve men at Oregon State University and beyond.
1) we answer all questions that come to our website from men and women; from pro-feminists and anti-feminists
2) we hold programs on topics that serve a wide audience--programs on relationships, international women's and human rights issues, careers, sexual orientation and gender identity issues...for men AND women.
3) we have had men seek support when a partner has been sexually assaulted, when he has been accused of sexual harassment or when he is dealing with difficult personal issues.
4) we support the rights of a woman to make choices that are right for her individually. When a man is able to conceive and bear a child, we will also advocate for his right to make personal choices. I will, however always advocate for equality in parenting and the rights of a father to have a loving relationship with his child(ren).
Because I am feminist, that doesn't preclude my caring for men's success at OSU and in life. But the focus of the Women's Center is and will remain on women's success, equity and social justice.
I'm curious how you (in the UK) came upon our website. Please let me know if there is anything else I can provide.
Beth
And my reply today:
Quote:
Thank you kindly for your prompt & detailed reply. Unfortunately, I see I missed the word 'not' out in my initial contact - it is a flaw I frequently commit, even upon my own forum. It should have read:
"...as my experience has repeatedly shown feminism to have ''no'' desire for equality amongst men & women..."
The reason I say this (with pertinent correction this time), is because every time I hear of feminism - even prior to turning somewhat antifeminist - I couldn't help but notice how it was adamant in man-bashing, portraying negative stereotypes of men, highlighting female accomplishments while simultaneously marginalizing men's, and generally seeming to have somewhat of a superiority complex in women's favour.
I gather from your answer, that men will only be given choices (as far as you're concerned, at least) if or when he manages to carry a baby. Again, promoting women's rights over men's, or as it currently stands - complete lack of.
I am glad to see that men will approach you for advice, however, you declined to give mention as to whether you respond or turn him away with the examples you have given. With feminist logic being as it is, that "all men are rapists" (yes, I know - was taken from a fictional novel - but still portrays the general mentality by the author) and "all men are 'potential' rapists" - do you assume him automatically guilty or do you assume him innocent until proven, beyond reasonable doubt, guilty? And conversely, do you assume a man guilty - without a shred of evidence to support the claim - if he has been accused of assault, domestic violence, etc. by a woman and then try to remove or damage the 'loving relationship with his child/ren' that you claim to support?
As you will know, many women can, do, and have used 'shelters' in order to simply hide from their partner so they can use the time as leverage in custody battles. I'm not for a moment assuming 50%, 25% or 75% of women in the homes does this, I'm simply saying it does and has happened. Do you support the use of women's shelters for this purpose - and if not, have you done anything to ensure it is not happening within your locality. The support you offer fathers in their loving relationships with child/ren are clearly damaged, if not severed, when the above instances happen. How is your support for these innocent fathers reflected in such circumstances?
Do you find sexual assault upon men to be comedic, as portrayed daily on television set across the 'westernized' world, or do you recognize that women are being sent a message that sexually assaulting men is acceptable behaviour for even the slightest of perceived wrongdoings on his part, sometimes just fun?
Now, which are you? You've already proclaimed yourself as a feminist - who is allegedly for equality, yet you also admit that you're a women-firster as your primary goal is to enhance women's success, equity and social justice.
If feminism isn't a "woman firster" movement, why does it use a none gendered term, such as egalitarians or humanists? The very word "feminism" clearly proclaims a female-only attitude. If, as a seeker of equality, referred to myself as a 'masculinist' - you'd have immense difficulty believing putting masculine standards first as anything to do with equality, true?
As it is, I've lived in England the vast majority of my life. Roughly one year ago I came over here to live with my wife who was having some difficulties adapting to live in England and other personal reasons of her own. I'm currently in Michigan, which my IP address can confirm for you. Clearly that's still a good distance from your location. I stumbled upon your website as I was seeking google images for "feminism".
Anyhow, if you'd like to, I've recently opened a sub forum on my own little corner of the web for some light debate on topics pertinent to feminism, antifeminism.
Thankfully, I hadn't held my breath - and still no reply... oh well
There's one more for the bednotch to confirm that the majority of feminists will not enter into polite discussion, af being a pleasant breath of fresh air.
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