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  1. #1
    skim11's Avatar
    skim11 is offline Established Member
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    My views on feminism

    In the other thread I started, people mainly wanted to debate me on my feminist views, which is fine. However, I want to keep the other thread separate in case more people want to answer my original question, because I am genuinely interested.

    I took many classes in college from feminist points of view, and I still follow a couple feminist blogs. I actually was particularly interested in women's issues in the Middle East, hence my other thread. I spent a lot of time volunteering for Egyptian and Afghanistan women's rights groups, which I enjoyed. I have never had any experience where someone expressed contempt or hatred for men. There were men in my classes, so I doubt it would have even gone over well. The women's rights groups were women-only, but that was because of practical necessity (the women that we worked with weren't comfortable at all speaking to men, for cultural and religious reasons). So that has truthfully been my entire experience with feminism, and the way people characterize it here has been somewhat shocking, considering.

    Lately I've been interested in the topic of feminism and men. From feminists and feminist literature, I learned about many social problems that men face, such as lack of recognition as parents, the denial of men as rape or domestic abuse victims, and harmful stereotypes. These are issues that I care about because gender equality is important to me as a feminist, but more importantly there are men in my life that I care about greatly. (a few of them are feminists themselves, believe it or not)

    I could never say that no feminist has ever hated men, or said anything sexist, because that would be ridiculous. However, I think that being anti-men is not an acceptable attitude in mainstream feminism and that most feminists actually care about men's issues, which is a belief I've gotten from my personal experiences described above and from the blogs and books I read. At the very least, even if I never change anyone's mind about that, I hope that some people here can recognize that at least some of us feminists can be allies for men's rights.

    Here are a few of the books on feminism and men that I recommend:
    Feminism is for Everybody: Passionate Politics by bell hooks
    Masculinity studies and feminist theory Judith Kegan Gardiner
    Feminism and masculinities by Peter Francis Murphy

    Blogs that I read:
    Jezebel
    Feministing.com

    (Generally I find these blogs very pro-men. Often they will discuss examples of sexism against men (articles about men being unfeeling, aggressive, obsessed with sex, etc). The community usually calls out sexism against men when it happens and brings up men's issues. One time, they posted a picture of a dad with the caption "when dad babysits." The community criticized the caption for delegitimizing male parenting with the word "babysits," so they changed it. I think these blogs represent current mainstream feminism, because they are so popular. A few examples: “The Ugly Truth” or The Ugly Stereotype?
    The Bumbling Man: Reinforcing Male Stereotypes
    Do only Moms parent?)


    PS If possible, please be nice in your comments (no ad hominem). I have discovered that things get pretty heated here, but I would just like to have a friendly conversation with intelligent people, and I am kind of sensitive. Thanks.
    Last edited by skim11; 28th-March-2011 at 10:44 PM. Reason: clarifying a sentence

  2. #2
    silentblood's Avatar
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    Re: My views on feminism

    My experiences with feminism have been really mixed, madam.

    I have recieved sympathy from some feminists for being a gender queer and I have been attacked for daring to have an opposing opinion from the majority. I don't really think feminism has any real legitimate legal issues to deal with and I certainly think that feminism has fair points on some social issues, but I do not think these issues are as important as the legal discrimination that males face. I suggest you read the warcraft file: Article: Fecks Warcraft File

    Quote Quote from skim11
    I think these blogs represent current mainstream feminism, because they are so popular.
    Mainstream feminism is very different than most of the stuff you find on the internet and in academic circles. I appreciate feminist analysis about how it treats gender identitiy which is obviously a delicate issue for me, but I often find that it treats cisgendered men and cisgendered women badly. No, I don't have an irrational hatred of feminism but I do dislike most of it's character from the 80's and 90's and how it stole issues affecting me(LGBT issues, I'm bisexual)

    and brings up men's issues.
    Which ones? Abuse? Male rape? Court bias? Paternity fraud? Male disposability? What?
    “We are each our own devil, and we make this world our hell”-Oscar Wilde

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  3. #3
    Ambiorix's Avatar
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    Re: My views on feminism

    I think no one here will argue that countries like Saudi Arabia do not oppress women. Their freedom is severely restricted. On the other hand, Islam also severely restricts male freedom: male adulterers are stoned too, male apostates are executed too, but I believe female victims of these Islamic practices recieve more attention in western media.

    What women's issues do you think there still are in the west?

    The only ones I can see have more to do with socio-cultural perceptions than with systemic discrimination. If I have a daughter, I hope she grows up to be a courageous individual who wants to learn about the world (i.e. nature, history, cultures, NOT celebrity bullshit), not some pop-culture-inspired airhead.
    Feminists are stupid, throw equality at them!

  4. #4
    skim11's Avatar
    skim11 is offline Established Member
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    Re: My views on feminism

    Thanks for sharing your thoughts and experiences.
    Quote Quote from silentblood View Post
    Mainstream feminism is very different than most of the stuff you find on the internet and in academic circles. I appreciate feminist analysis about how it treats gender identitiy which is obviously a delicate issue for me, but I often find that it treats cisgendered men and cisgendered women badly. No, I don't have an irrational hatred of feminism but I do dislike most of it's character from the 80's and 90's and how it stole issues affecting me(LGBT issues, I'm bisexual)
    I disagree with some forms of feminism, especially radical feminism, but I think mainstream feminism most represents current feminist views. The feminist movement has been around for a while and has had many, many people contribute to it, analyze it, and criticize it, and I think it's evolved and progressed compared to past versions.

    Which ones? Abuse? Male rape? Court bias? Paternity fraud? Male disposability? What?
    The example links were to posts on male stereotypes and parenting, but I'm sure most of these have been covered on those blogs at some point.

    Quote Quote from Ambiorix View Post
    I think no one here will argue that countries like Saudi Arabia do not oppress women. Their freedom is severely restricted. On the other hand, Islam also severely restricts male freedom: male adulterers are stoned too, male apostates are executed too, but I believe female victims of these Islamic practices recieve more attention in western media.

    What women's issues do you think there still are in the west?

    The only ones I can see have more to do with socio-cultural perceptions than with systemic discrimination. If I have a daughter, I hope she grows up to be a courageous individual who wants to learn about the world (i.e. nature, history, cultures, NOT celebrity bullshit), not some pop-culture-inspired airhead.
    I agree that men are harmed in many ways by gender roles in Saudi Arabia, and it's definitely worth bringing attention to. Equality for men there would be equality for women too.

    In the West, I think women's issues are mostly the socio-cultural perceptions you mentioned. The pop-culture inspired airhead is a good example of harmful expectations for women.
    Last edited by skim11; 28th-March-2011 at 11:23 PM.

  5. #5
    nickb275's Avatar
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    Re: My views on feminism

    I hate to be un empathetic, I have no english word for this. (antipathique in french) but I don't live in saudi arabia. My son is not taught to hate me in istanbul. The humungous waste of tax payer dollars that goes into the farce we call superior family court comes out of my pockets, not Afghanistan.
    A well kept garden starts by pulling the weeds in my own garden, not my neighbors. If by example my neighbors like my garden, they will ask for tips on how to get one like it, not move into my garden cuz some chump at the mayors office said my gardens limits were open to all.
    You want to change the world and make it better, you start by making your own shit smell nice.
    Christ on a bike, even Mother Theresa had a private jet. Every one wants to be a Mother Theresa cuz it makes you feel all goody on the inside, while your fellow countryman are wasting in jail, homeless in the streets, ripped out of the family unit by unjust unconstitutional laws. Mother Theresa ate filet mignon while tending to the poor and getting more flea ridden rice for them. Ghandi had a great idea, turn the other cheek. In my own backyard, I turned the other cheek way to often and just got the crap knocked out of with this insanely great idea Ghandi had.
    You want to help the plight of afghan women? Educate them. You want to help the plight of north american boys in second grade? EDUCATE THEM, not medicate them.

    If helping other women in other countries while you are not even on the terrain over there where they hurt the most, is like a Chinese family law officer working on my parental alienation case here. About as effective also.

    You want to help, go to the streets and help an addicted prostitute gain her self respect. Sit down with her and have a coffee. Ask what makes her take to the streets.
    You want to understand misandry, put your self in our shoes and walk a few miles. Do you really think men feel so entitled as today's women do.
    I would have my head handed to me on a platter if I ever wore a shirt that said I have the dick, I make the rules. Fuck that.

    You want to help third world countries, live in one on their terms. Looking at their plight from your safety net does them no good whatsoever.

  6. #6
    Percy's Avatar
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    Re: My views on feminism

    PS If possible, please be nice in your comments (no ad hominem). I have discovered that things get pretty heated here, but I would just like to have a friendly conversation with intelligent people, and I am kind of sensitive. Thanks.
    I am a terribly nice man. Accent the terrible as I give no quarter. But I do appreciate humour and a good arguement, facts, logic, authentic emotion and Integrity.

    I am sensitive too. But in the cut and thrust of debate, I bear my whacks with some stoicism. You need to also.

    Lately I've been interested in the topic of feminism and men. From feminists and feminist literature, I learned about many social problems that men face, such as lack of recognition as parents, the denial of men as rape or domestic abuse victims, and harmful stereotypes. These are issues that I care about because gender equality is important to me as a feminist, but more importantly there are men in my life that I care about greatly. (a few of them are feminists themselves, believe it or not)

    I could never say that no feminist has ever hated men, or said anything sexist, because that would be ridiculous.
    Equality is important. Gender equality before the law is important, and becoming non-existant for men. Biological equality is not in nature's rule book, however. I didn't make the rules and nature is usually seen as a 'she'.

    Feminism is based upon seeing men as somehow superior and resenting it, sometimes in extreme fashion. It is based on denial of men's inate goodness to women. The language of feminism is the language of put-down, abuse and hatred. It is often necessary to be on the recieving end to notice it, as the inflictors are so full of self-righteousness that they are oblivious to their own hatreds.

    Here we KNOW the lies and the dissemblings. We KNOW the mendacities and prevarications.

    Here we expect YOU to show willingness to debate and discuss in a civilised manner.
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    (and within ourselves)


    A Feminist is a human being who has lost her way and turned vicious. If you meet one on the road as you
    Go your Own Way, offer kindness but keep your sword drawn.





  7. #7
    nickb275's Avatar
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    Re: My views on feminism

    I will ask your views on the following again, maybe you didn't feel like conversing about these pet peeve's of mine.

    I for one have not seen a personal accusation against you. A thicker skin is better and while keeping in mind this IS a men's site, I invite conversation with you if you care to discuss the issues facing men today, such as high suicide rates, fathers being ripped away from their kids, parental alienation, a vast majority of boys being drugged at the elementary school level with meth based drugs, or how in Canada 93% of all maintenance settlement in divorces brought in front of a judge fall in favor of women. I have posted official statistics for that, not just some huffington post article.
    How about addressing the overwhelming inmate population that is men and how they come from majority single mother households, or how about how men get severely more radical jail sentences than women for the same crime. How about addrressing the reason why media has allowed women to be so undressed and attack young girls to want to be little Britany Spears wanna be's or the large amount of false rape and domestic violence reports that go unpunished when they have been proven false and fraudulent, or why women want equal outcomes instead of merit based outcomes.
    I would also like to discuss why women today are as lost as men are in regards to how to address equal parenting issues! Why is this not enforced as the norm in all divorce by law

  8. #8
    sparkwhite's Avatar
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    Re: My views on feminism

    Quote Quote from skim11 View Post
    I could never say that no feminist has ever hated men, or said anything sexist, because that would be ridiculous. However, I think that being anti-men is not an acceptable attitude in mainstream feminism and that most feminists actually care about men's issues, which is a belief I've gotten from my personal experiences described above and from the blogs and books I read. At the very least, even if I never change anyone's mind about that, I hope that some people here can recognize that at least some of us feminists can be allies for men's rights.

    Being anti-men IS acceptable in the feminist movement, because as they see it they are at WAR, and in war anything goes. Most feminists do not care about men's issues, because feminists are of two types: 1) Professional feminists, and it is not their job to care about or work for men 2) recreational feminists, who read feminist blogs and feminist fiction and chat with their feminist girlfriends, and these feminists as a subculture (all subcultures are founded upon exclusion somehow) define themselves by the exclusion of men (male lap-dog types don't count) 3) women with husbands and children and more responsibilities than they can count who CALL themselves feminists (largely because they don't know how misandric the movement really is).

    Okay so that was 3.

    Blogs that I read:
    Jezebel
    Feministing.com

    (Generally I find these blogs very pro-men. Often they will discuss examples of sexism against men (articles about men being unfeeling, aggressive, obsessed with sex, etc). The community usually calls out sexism against men when it happens and brings up men's issues. One time, they posted a picture of a dad with the caption "when dad babysits." The community criticized the caption for delegitimizing male parenting with the word "babysits," so they changed it. I think these blogs represent current mainstream feminism, because they are so popular.
    You find Jezebel pro-man? That's crazy.

    Feminism and feminist culture (our culture IS feminist culture) express only one viewpoint, only one goal, and present things such that it seems that there is only one correct way to view the world and other things. Masculism or the Men's Rights Movement was born from the excesses of this propaganda and the pain caused by its institutionalization. We exist as perfectly sane and upright people who will not compromise on what we stand for, and who will not be cowed by certain feminists (female and male, as you noted) who would like to shame us and shut us up, like this charming fellow.

    We call the man like that above a "mangina." There's no exact definition (misandry isn't even in your dictionary; which apparently means the English language doesn't acknowledge the existence of the hatred of men), but the various usages of the term point to a man who, for whatever reason, fails to grant equal importance to male issues as to female issues.

    Quote Quote from Ambiorix View Post
    I think no one here will argue that countries like Saudi Arabia do not oppress women. Their freedom is severely restricted. On the other hand, Islam also severely restricts male freedom: male adulterers are stoned too
    I read that and thought, "I've never heard that before!" So I did a little meager research and it's true! According to this wikipedia article, since 2006 more men have been stoned to death in Iran than women:

    "Following vociferous domestic and international controversy and outcry over stoning in the early years of the Islamic republic, the government announced a moratorium on stoning in 2002.[22] In January 2005, the Iranian judiciary spokesman Jamal Karimirad was quoted as saying "Stoning has been dropped from the penal code for a long time, and in the Islamic republic, we do not see such punishments being carried out", further adding that if stoning sentences were passed by lower courts, they were over-ruled by higher courts and "no such verdicts have been carried out."[24] Nevertheless, stonings were reported in 2006 (a man and a woman, not officially confirmed),[22][23][25] 2007 (a man),[25][26][27][28] 2008 (three men, one unsuccessfully)[25][29][30] and 2009 (a man).[25][31][32][33] In 2010, a woman Sakineh Ashtiani had her stoning sentence suspended after an international campaign."

    Our feminist media, skim11, would never say this. If you're truly interested in equality, stick around these forums for a while and learn a little. If you just want an excuse to say "Ya those MRA people are misogynistic assholes," then you might as well leave now.
    Last edited by sparkwhite; 29th-March-2011 at 04:25 AM.

  9. #9
    dievas's Avatar
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    Re: My views on feminism

    When women started "defining" themselves, they made it very clear that ONLY women can define femininity. What arrogance it must take to think that men will accept anything less. When we begin to define ourselves, it will be MEN, and ONLY MEN, that define it.

    By the very nature of it's name, feminism is a WOMEN'S organization.

    Join up with feminism? No thank you.

  10. #10
    nickb275's Avatar
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    Re: My views on feminism

    The force is not strong with this one folks, I don't think she will be back to enlighten us as to the error of our ways. I specifically asked for her opinions on very up to date questions that men and boys face in everyday "occidental" countries. She refused to comment on even one, only allowed that some exist. I think we just gave her more reason to go lip with femafisting and jizzabel cohorts as to the MRA's myopic view's on life. Couldn't take the heat so she got out of the kitchen I suppose. It is very hard for a person to question the error of his/her ways when flashed with logical data and questions which destroy the way they have espoused. If I were a devout christian or Muslim and Zeus came down to sit on a park bench with me himself, and told me he was the creator and all this Mohamed and Jesus business was gibberish, I am sure I would tug on his beard and lick my finger and stick it up his arse to see if I got an electric shock

  11. #11
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    Re: My views on feminism

    However, I think that being anti-men is not an acceptable attitude in mainstream feminism and that most feminists actually care about men's issues, which is a belief I've gotten from my personal experiences described above and from the blogs and books I read.
    Give me a list of things feminism has done for men. Wait, I'll make it even easier for you, give me a list of good things feminism has said it wants to do for men, or give me a list of the things feminism says are good about men.

    At the very least, even if I never change anyone's mind about that, I hope that some people here can recognize that at least some of us feminists can be allies for men's rights.
    I'll refer you to what I said to Lady Caff...

    Feminists are my enemies. Not because their demands are universally unreasonable, but because it is universally unreasonable to make demands on behalf of a single group. It's in the damn name. If they weren't prejudice, selfish, bigoted, they'd just be humanists. If there were no feminists there would be no MRAs. Before Feminists there was no pendulum because nobody even thought to look at men and women in such a pathetically petty way, like greedy children bickering over who has the most candy.

    MRAs advocate a state of affairs not in which the government intercedes to their benefit, and drafts pro-male, anti-female laws, but where the government doesn't intercede at all and drafts laws which favour nobody. Feminist-style lobbying creates a state of affairs in which different demographics engage in a never ending push and pull struggle for state largesse which will do no more than never endingly expand the states ability to tinker with the natural rights and private lives of its citizens. MRAs represent more than anything else the simple idea that while the state, and society should hold no group back it conversely owes absolutely nothing to any demographic which is not freely available to all. This is fundementally opposed to feminism which feels imbalances in outcome must be legislated away, and that the state should enforce equality between fundementall unequal parties. This is conformist tyranny.

    Where feminism fails utterly however whether we believe its intentions are good or bad is in the arena of reciprocity . This must be done for women. Society must enable them in this. What do women do for society? What do women do nowadays? I know we do not have the same system, but still. Feminist talks often about what women demand, and what society owes women. What do women own society? Am I wrong when I say Feminism has created a climate in which it is utterly forbidden to state that a woman could owe anyone anything? Am I wrong in saying Feminism has essentially fostered a state in which everything a woman does is subject to her immediate whims, and the world must cater to them? Reciprocity is taboo. Tell a woman that she should not expect her boyfriend to pay for her dinner and indignation ensues, hypocritically enough, tell her if he does she should go home with him and more indignation ensues. Tell women they owe something to society beyond existing and indignation ensued.

    I've said this in the past, but women in the first world as a net loss as a demographic. This is unacceptable. Their posture before greater society should be one of contriteness, an open willingness to learn and to master themselves, to achieve better. Yet they adopt the posture of a superior and hand-down edicts and condemnations as if we were somehow beholden to them. What have they done? What do they do? They exist. When it comes time to hand out options and benefits women assert themselves to be eminently capable. Tell a woman she can't serve in the military, and she'll say 'how dare you, women can do anything men can!' tell her she must 'How dare you, I'm a woman!' tell her you're proud of our brave boys fighting in Iraq 'How dare you, there are women over there!' tell her most combat deaths are men. 'How dare you! the patriarchy forces us out!' tell her women actually intentionally get pregnant to escape being sent to war zones 'How dare you, that's not all women!' tell her the so-called patriarchy is not all men 'But you let it happen!' tell her you don't actually have power over it one way or another. 'Well, that's your fault for being a pathetic loser!' this is their level of debate. I don't mean to seem cruel but they can get away with it because nobody expects better. Everyone knows on some level women are sub-adults, and we do not hold them to the same standard.

    Women must be expected to deliver more, to sacrifice outside of motherhood, to place the interests of society before their own, to plan long term, to be genuinely independant, to shoulder risk. Any woman who does not has no buisiness presenting herself as independant, as an adult. This is acceptable if one wishes to make the choice. Move to a conservative community and become a wife, and your husband will happily treat you like a child if that's what you want (it's a choice a man cannot make) but if not grow up. The blunt truth is men have been facilitating women's progress for one-hundred years and the investment has seen almost no return; in Western countries they're not even perpetuating the species anymore. It has been an unqualified disaster. There are no rational grounds for investing more in women until they start to do something useful with their powers and rights. They can no more be allowed to plead the case that 'oh, but if only we could XXX, or if only XYZ were easier, or maybe if you gave us more XZZ, or XYY is still holding us back,' no! No more.

    Nobody can be expected to fill a car with gas when it doesn't run. It's time women did something instead of just demanding the right to do things. If Feminism ever gets its head around this, the idea of duty, responsibility or obligation as a battle-cry in place of choice then it will not be such a joke. Until then
    I will not attempt reconciliation with it, or with women as a whole. They are a group empowered to destroy me, and who have ceased to care for my welfare, and that of my brothers almost universally despite that we have furnished their every advance, and outfitted them with luxury that is the envy of almost every other demographic. They can reconcile with me. I will not capitulate. Society is dependant on men. Not women. Women have yet to even assume the mantle of adult conduct and responsibility as a whole, and most women are smug about this situation despite that it means more productive demographics must subsidise them. In fact they demand more subsidy. More gratuity, more protection, etc. Feminism is a toxic, hate-filled singularity of a movement which will never be satisfied, and always find something new to complain about because it's become the meal ticket of too many people living off the productiveness of others via state subsidy. It is structurally and idealogically holed, unsound, and should be pushed out to sea to we can watch it sink. Anyone stupid enough to not clear the deck is going to drown.

    You want to help third world countries, live in one on their terms. Looking at their plight from your safety net does them no good whatsoever.
    I believe in this, which is why I now employ people in Indonesia, there is no prefferential treatment mandated for any of my employees and we pay them more than the other factories in the area (about 10% increase, but our conditions are also more fair, more amendable and we provide loadings which is very rare in that area) my partners and I planning to build a dormitory to protect them from rent-gouging by landlords taking advantage of the fact that they must move away from home in rural areas to find work. Facilities and accomodation will be basic, but it will be free. We supply meals as well while they're on the clock. I do this in a way that makes me money, and generates money for a community that sorely needs it; this is better than crying for handouts. You can't legislate away these problems, you need to get in and change from the ground up.

    I took many classes in college from feminist points of view, and I still follow a couple feminist blogs. I actually was particularly interested in women's issues in the Middle East, hence my other thread. I spent a lot of time volunteering for Egyptian and Afghanistan women's rights groups, which I enjoyed. I have never had any experience where someone expressed contempt or hatred for men. There were men in my classes, so I doubt it would have even gone over well. The women's rights groups were women-only, but that was because of practical necessity (the women that we worked with weren't comfortable at all speaking to men, for cultural and religious reasons). So that has truthfully been my entire experience with feminism, and the way people characterize it here has been somewhat shocking, considering.
    Men who are uncomfortable with women are not indulged, or allowed male-only enclaves; society calls their fear or discomfort mysogny.

  12. #12
    Zuberi's Avatar
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    Re: My views on feminism

    My views on feminism have not changed and will not change. It is a government funded group that glorifies the ignorance, dishonesty and hatred in modern day females. Feminism is and will always be a hate movement.

    What Men Are Saying About Women.: Feminism started in the WKKK, The Women's KU KLUX KLAN.....
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    Scorn and mockery towards men in need is one of the reasons feminism is dying as we speak!.

  13. #13
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    Re: My views on feminism

    Quote Quote from sparkwhite View Post
    I read that and thought, "I've never heard that before!" So I did a little meager research and it's true! According to this wikipedia article, since 2006 more men have been stoned to death in Iran than women:
    Most people don't know this... thus this (admittedly barbaric) Islamic practice reveals much more of western misandry than of islamic misogyny.
    Feminists are stupid, throw equality at them!

  14. #14
    Marx's Avatar
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    Re: My views on feminism

    Quote Quote from Ambiorix View Post
    Most people don't know this... thus this (admittedly barbaric) Islamic practice reveals much more of western misandry than of islamic misogyny.
    I must admit, until this very moment, even I was utterly unaware of this... but it brings me back to my first post to skim in her intro thread...

    Quote Quote from Marx View Post
    We observe that for the most part, women in third world countries do indeed get a hard life, but we also observe that feminists - as is so typical - entirely ignore or marginalize the areas of life where men have it hard too in those societies. For example, we see feminists talking about FGM and pretending that MGM doesn't exist... Yet, not only does it certainly exist in those countries - it is legal and heavily promoted in western cultures, but given a nice, snazzy name of "circumcision" to make it more palatable for people to digest. The reality is, sexually mutilating a baby or a young man is wrong, whether in third world countries or western countries. So, by acknowledging this double-standard that feminists promote (pretending only women have problems), we are raising awareness against mutilation of young men & babies as well as acknowledging that FGM is equally bad. I have seen many feminists insist that mutilating their newborn son is acceptable but insisting that even the most mild form of circumcision for a girl is wrong. Often this is based on noting that a girl loses some 8k of nerves, while ignoring that a mutiliated man has lost some 20k of nerves from his penis. Both the men AND the women in those third world countries can continue a sex-life and reproduce.
    emphasis added to highlight my main point - feminism at a general level promotes misandry by pretending only women have issues to deal with and intentionally ignoring all the issues that affect men, or more to the point, pretending that issues *only* or *primarily* affect women, when in fact they do not.

    That IS promoting misandry.
    The most offensive thing you can do to a feminist is treat her with FULL equality.
    --Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.--


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  15. #15
    Feckless's Avatar
    Feckless is offline Established Member
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    Re: My views on feminism

    Before I start a little disclaimer. I am aware that there are feminists that are very egalitarian. From my understanding mosts feminists especially the more "official" ones are very women-centric. For the sake of the following discussion I would like to refer to the former as egalitarian feminists and to the latter as gynocentric feminists.

    Now, when I became interested in Men's Rights I must say I really did not have a negative view about feminists and hoped that feminists are mostly the egalitarian kind and was for instance reading and commenting quite a bit on feministing and while I would agree that there are some egalitarian feminists active there, the thought that feministing is somehow pro-men really escapes me. I am shaking my head in disbelief right now. The examples you brought up, were examples from the feministing community, a part of that website that is like an open forum and even there you will rarely find posts about men or male issues. The main part of the blog, or the main bloggers or the blog owners are from my understanding gynocentric feminists that follow the believe that there is no sexism against men and that there is no such thing as female privilege. There is also the notion that male vicitims of DV are very very rare (which they are not, I have been called names on that site for arguing for male victims of DV). I can not see how it is a good idea to try to convince people here that feministing is pro-men which is certainly not.

    I am not even mentioning Jezebel here, but wasn't that that site where they had that post up about smacking boyfriends....have to search for that one again.

    My main beef with feminism as follows (and I believe the blogs you named are part of that problem)
    - ignoring and undermining male victims of DV
    - fighting and ignoring fathers rights issues (as an example NOW is actively fighting shared parenting and aknowledgement of PAS)
    - stance on female privilege and sexism against men

    There is more to that, but let us leave it there for now.

    I think that being anti-men is not an acceptable attitude in mainstream feminism
    How come Mary Daly was so popular?

    Anyhow, you might want to add those to your blogroll to learn more:
    - Toysoldiers
    - Feminist Critics
    The men's and fathers' movement needs to make sure it never sees females as the enemy,
    but only misandry--whether from females or from males.
    If not, we'll become like the bigoted feminists that this movement was formed to oppose.
    Glenn Sacks
    Disclaimer:
    http://antimisandry.com/109272-post69.html

    Blog:
    http://feck-blog.blogspot.com/

    Fecks Warcraft File:

    http://antimisandry.com/chit-chat-ma...ile-16039.html

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]


 
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