Hello, welcome!

Greetings Katherine...

This site tends to treat people as they treat it. That is, if people are respectful they tend to be respected, and viceversa.

Katherine, I don't know if you're the Anonymous who posted on my blog, but I wrote a reply to her which I think you could benefit from reading.

Anonymous 7:43AM:

I held off on posting your comment until today when I could take the time to respond to you before anyone else did. If you are truly researching anti-feminism, and I sincerely hope you are, there is one thing that you have to keep in mind. It's something I had to learn, and it's something every woman interested in this movement has to come to terms with.

Men, as a general rule, love women. (That isn't it ) For a man to be driven to anti-feminism, it takes literally years of seeing the misandry that is so common you may not even notice it, and more than likely having been burned by a number of women. This usually includes women he was supposed to be able to trust – mother, sister, wife. I think a better word than 'burned' is 'betrayed'. I have a number of thoughts on that subject, but I'm not going to go into it here.

My point is that by the time a man is active in this movement, he has been driven beyond rage. You don't have to understand it. You do have to accept it. 99% of them do not hate women. 99% of them know that “not all women are like that”.

You may not be like that. I really don't know, and that's the point. You're going to see a lot of hostility here. These people don't sugar-coat, and neither do I. If you say something that sounds like a feminist idea, you will be called on it. You have to develop a thick skin, and be willing to question your own beliefs. If they stand up to the scrutiny, fine. If they don't, you have to open-minded enough to change them.

Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that I hope you continue with your research. If you have a question, ask in a respectful way, and you will more than likely be answered in the same way. If you get defensive, you will find nothing but argument. Like it or not, that's the way it is here. Believe me when I say it's not misogynistic. I'll say it again for clarity: anti-feminists do not hate women. We hate feminism.

If you want, you can feel free to email me at kelly.ladymac@gmail.com. When I get my blog moved to its new location, that will be posted again, along with all my links and my old blog posts, which a man with more foresight than I very kindly archived.

So, all that being said, post away.

Welcome to the board.

Quote from katherine

you people

you people?! oh hell no...nah just kidding with ya, welcome.

Im the village idiot, acting like a jackass since 1908.

While I agree with some of your post, Im not entirely against militancy, pacifism hardly ever works out, it becomes a bloated giant the longer peace time is, extremism is a problem, but evading extremism is almost impossible, the more power a ideaology gains, it starts to mutate into a corrupted creature, so unfortunately extremism and militancy is almost impossible to evade, as much as we would like to evade it.

Welcome Katherine

Quote from katherine

Hi,
I'm Katherine, and I fell upon this site by sheer chance. To be perfectly honest, I'm a little out of place. We'll find out shorty how much of an understatement that is. I don't walk around calling myself a feminist, but I do wonder at the visceral reaction the word causes among people... like you people, for instance. Anyone who bothers to read anything I post will quickly find that I have an aversion to militancy. Extremism is a symptom of ignorance and nobody wants to be the ignorant ass who thinks his or her ideology should reign supreme over the world. That being said, please don't think I'm here in any such capacity. I'm genuinely interested in much of what is being said and I like to discuss relevant social issues.

If that was a challange to an Irish brawl....challange accepted....do not even pretend to have any sort of political authority over me until you win an election...and if THAT ever happens...pretend you want to stay elected.

I do not differ to self appointed political gauleiters of ANY political stripe.

If you are not an elected official or a politicaly appointed policy maker I really don't care what you think...I hunt much bigger game..

Saying "I am a feminist" plus one dollar won't even get you a bus ride.

My animosity towards feminists was honestly aquired.

No, I have not yet had the pleasure of making any posts. I certainly have no intention of bringing out the misogyny card, that crap doesn't deserve a response from me. Plus, who am I to argue with someone who hates women? Practice in futility. I seriously doubt anyone here really hates women, even though the vulgarity that some of you ejaculate tends to make me wonder. And even if you are a bigot, that doesn't mean you don't have a relevant political or social perspective, it just means you happen to be ignorant also. I'm here to address issues, and not the kind that you have with your Mommy.
And in response to the "we don't hate women, we hate feminists" comment; my question is: How do you define a feminist? When somebody says the word "feminist" to me, my mind immediately goes to suffragettes, to women fighting for access to birth control (1960's), pro-choice advocates, the equal pay for equal labor stuff, etc. These are the same women that I'm grateful for when I can walk into a public health clinic and get contraceptives and free PAP tests.
The actual issues that I see being brought to the table here aren't really things I associate with feminism, I don't really have experience with the raging bull dykes of the 21st century who think the world is sexist because the word woman ends in ...man. But clearly, definition and connotation aren't things to be taken lightly when calling yourself an antifeminist.

Quote from katherine

When somebody says the word "feminist" to me, my mind immediately goes to suffragettes, to women fighting for access to birth control (1960's), pro-choice advocates, the equal pay for equal labor stuff, etc. These are the same women that I'm grateful for when I can walk into a public health clinic and get contraceptives and free PAP tests.

Let me see, the women wanted contraceptives, but the men said: no! We're keeping them to ourselves! But then certain very heroic women said: O,yeah, we'll see about that! And they fought, and they fought and they fought, and finally the men caved in and said: OK, you can have contraceptives.

Is that how it went Katherine?

Who invented contraceptives in the first place? Don't you think you ought to be grateful for that as well?

Margaret Sanger was a racist who was heavily into eugenics. She wanted birth control so the undesirables (blacks) would have fewer children, and the white super race could be created. She was associated with Hitler. Some hero.

How do you define a feminist? When somebody says the word "feminist" to me, my mind immediately goes to suffragettes

Mine too, Katherine, and welcome.

These suffragette ladies were so brave and forthright, firebombing public buildings, threatening to assasinate the UK PM, throwing themselves under horses in races. Not that they were "extremists " though. Oh dear me no. That would mean they were ignorant bigots, ejaculating all over the shop, wouldn't it.

No these were gentle ladies who loved peace and doilies and generosity and warm homes and white feathers. They generously gave lots of white feathers to men, who just wanted a peaceful life too, instead of being gassed and mown down with machine guns. "Get out there and protect us, you cowards", cried the suffragettes. "We want the vote". The 140,000 men who died or were severly wounded at the Somme, mostly didn't have the vote either but hey, let's not spoil a good legitimate demand.

Precious few of those suffragette women bothered to go and watch all the fun these lads were having, let alone lend a hand. Those Patriarchal bastards probably forced the women to stay away from the mud and bullets, selfish bastards. Denying women career opportunities, as usual, that's what it was! They were probably jealous knowing that women could do the job just as well and probably better than any man could. Those srtong, intelligent, vocal suffragettes certainly had a lot to complain about.

Yep those early feminists certainly set the tone.

First of all, what? I was referring to Margaret Sanger. And yes, she was a proponent of eugenics, but assuming that her reasoning behind opening birth control clinics and handing out fliers was based merely on the fact that she believed in eugenics, would be intellectually lazy. She probably had a lot of reasons for believing what she did, including the fact that her mother suffered through 18 pregnancies before dying. Like I said before, just because somebody is a bigot, it doesn't mean they don't have valid arguments. It's just means they're ignorant. Many people who advocated admirable ideals were hypocrits, you won't find a single spotless idol on the planet. Gandhi gave himself daily enemas, that doesn't mean he didn't do good things. And not all of Margaret Sanger's contemporaries believed in eugenics. I have access to birth control because of people like her, but that doesn't mean I think the woman is a hero. Reducing early feminism to eugenics because Margaret Sanger happened to advocate it, is illogical.

Quote from Percy

Mine too, Katherine, and welcome.

These suffragette ladies were so brave and forthright, firebombing public buildings, threatening to assasinate the UK PM, throwing themselves under horses in races. Not that they were "extremists " though. Oh dear me no. That would mean they were ignorant bigots, ejaculating all over the shop, wouldn't it.

No these were gentle ladies who loved peace and doilies and generosity and warm homes and white feathers. They generously gave lots of white feathers to men, who just wanted a peaceful life too, instead of being gassed and mown down with machine guns. "Get out there and protect us, you cowards", cried the suffragettes. "We want the vote". The 140,000 men who died or were severly wounded at the Somme, mostly didn't have the vote either but hey, let's not spoil a good legitimate demand.

Precious few of those suffragette women bothered to go and watch all the fun these lads were having, let alone lend a hand. Those Patriarchal bastards probably forced the women to stay away from the mud and bullets, selfish bastards. Denying women career opportunities, as usual, that's what it was! They were probably jealous knowing that women could do the job just as well and probably better than any man could. Those srtong, intelligent, vocal suffragettes certainly had a lot to complain about.

Yep those early feminists certainly set the tone.

Well, first and foremost, you're confusing ideology with actual people. Just because there were crazy suffragettes, doesn't mean women don't deserve the right to vote. And they provided it. Had these women NOT done what they had, it's impossible to know if they would have eventually gotten the right to vote anyway. My guess is, they wouldn't. Never in history has an oppressed people simply ceased to be oppressed because the oppessors evolved. And peaceful means are always best, but if you're walking slowly down the street carrying candles and singing "We Shall Overcome" while dodging bricks, maybe it's time for a new tactic.

Quote from katherine

Never in history has an oppressed people simply ceased to be oppressed because the oppessors evolved. And peaceful means are always best, but if you're walking slowly down the street carrying candles and singing "We Shall Overcome" while dodging bricks, maybe it's time for a new tactic.

You got the vote because we were afraid of you?

Precious few of those suffragette women bothered to go and watch all the fun these lads were having, let alone lend a hand. Those Patriarchal bastards probably forced the women to stay away from the mud and bullets, selfish bastards. Denying women career opportunities, as usual, that's what it was! They were probably jealous knowing that women could do the job just as well and probably better than any man could. Those srtong, intelligent, vocal suffragettes certainly had a lot to complain about.

Yep those early feminists certainly set the tone.

I'm not sure what you're point is here. Are you complaining because women weren't serving on the battle field during the Battle of the Somme? Because I think they were quite busy taking over industrial jobs that were left behind by all of the soldiers in WW1. And it's really silly to argue about the perspective of a woman from that era. These women weren't immune to archaic traditions. Chivalry wasn't dead and women didn't get muddy. But what does that have to do with women deserving the right to vote?