Throw off your internalised SHAME

[Percy]

Our actions betray our inner sense of self. We whine and complain, we 'educate' one another. We can see and talk, but fail to DO.

Why is this?

Ned Holstein is a Father's Rights Activist. He DOES things.

To me, a father, the needs of fathers is important but is a sub-set of my needs as a MAN.

My self-respect needs.

How many of us have a severely damaged sense of self and respect for ourselves? Sufficient respect.

What does that damage prevent us from doing?

Do we even recognise that we are damaged?

I suspect, as Ned does, that we are in denial a lot of the time.

Recognition and acknowledgement is necessary.

It isn't an issue of self-blame or self-flagellation. We have been subjected to 40 years of sustained villification. It has left damage.

CLICK LINK HERE


From Ned Holstein, MD, MS, Executive Director of Fathers & Families:
Self-Respect, MLK, and Fathers — Do You Respect Yourself as a Father?

Boston, MA–I have a hunch that huge numbers of fathers in America do not respect themselves as fathers.

They may respect themselves as employees, as churchgoers, as guitarists, tennis players or friends, but not as fathers.

If men truly respected themselves as fathers, why would so many meekly accept second-class parenthood after separation or divorce?

Why would so many watch television shows and ads that insult fathers?

Why would so many vote for candidates who insult fathers?

Why would so many in intact relationships routinely defer to mom’s judgment about what is best for the kids?

Why would so many have children out of marriage, denying them any meaningful legal rights to their children?

I don’t know how many fathers this affects, except that the number is large. And I believe this lack of self-respect is at the heart of why the fathers’ movement is still a marginal force in society.

It was not always so. When the feminists complain about a history of “patriarchy,” they are talking about an era when fathers made most of the decisions about children. And if the parents parted, the children stayed with dad.

Somehow, we have swung from one extreme to another, from patriarchy to matriarchy. We need to find the middle. (I most definitely am not calling for a return to patriarchy. Fathers & Families’ principles are clear: we believe in shared responsibility for children if both parents are fit.)

About two years ago, I gave a short speech at one of our General Membership Meetings, attended by the usual crowd of 90 or 100 people. The topic was “Shame.” I thought it was a topic of mild interest to our members, but worth thinking about.

To my astonishment, it generated perhaps the strongest reaction of any talk I have given. Some people were tearful, and many emailed me the next day to tell me how powerfully my words had affected them personally.

I think there is a lot of shame among fathers. And I think it gets in the way of reclaiming our fatherhood. Thus, it causes us to shortchange our children.

This brings me around to Martin Luther King. He was shot in Memphis in 1968. He was in Memphis to support a strike by garbage collectors, who sought better wages. To this day, I remember the photographs of the picket lines: old, forlorn, beaten-down black men carrying signs.

Here is what struck me and has stayed with me. The signs did not say “Higher Wages.” They did not say “More Paid Holidays.”

They said, “I Am A Man.”

The men holding these signs wore their Sunday best.

It was a statement of pride among men who were accustomed to shame and defeat.

Our movement today will succeed when men all over the country throw off shame and say with pride, “I Am A Father.”

“I Am A Man.”

Perhaps this should be the over-arching slogan, T-sirt message, banner legend etc that unites us all.

[bobx23456]

What a powerful statement;

I am a MAN!

These days I frequently comment to men who use feminist dehumanized language "Woman and males."

They teach it in schools. They teach it in colleges. Our wives and parents, our TV and movies, they all use the dehumanized language, "women and males."

I am a MAN!

I am a Father!

[FFFF]

Aye, but, the bloke is saying he doesnt want to return to the "patriarchy." He wants some sort of fucking "half way house" or something?

He thinks the traditional system of family life was "extreme"?

And he asking why men seem to lack respect?

Probably because there is no fucking half way house..

You are either master or servant..

You cant be "equal" and in any half way house scenario..

Male chivalry hands over the power to the "more equal" woman..

Men and women are naturally "equal"..

And as long as madam does as sir tells her sir will ensure that is always the case!!

No cunting shame here Mangina HoleStink!

[bobx23456]

Originally Posted by Drex

Aye, but, the bloke is saying he doesnt want to return to the "patriarchy." He wants some sort of fucking "half way house" or something?

He thinks the traditional system of family life was "extreme"?

And he asking why men seem to lack respect?

Probably because there is no fucking half way house..

You are either master or servant..

You cant be "equal" and in any half way house scenario..

Male chivalry hands over the power to the "more equal" woman..

Men and women are naturally "equal"..

And as long as madam does as sir tells her sir will ensure that is always the case!!

No cunting shame here Mangina HoleStink!

Good observation. He's refusing even to propose returning to Patriarchial control where Father made the decisions.

You never get what you are too scared to ask for.

Blessings

Bob

[FFFF]

Originally Posted by bobx23456

Good observation. He's refusing even to propose returning to Patriarchial control where Father made the decisions.

You never get what you are too scared to ask for.

Blessings

Bob

I have an instinctive reaction that occurs whenever I note someone declare a definate and positive dislike of the patriarchy without so much as an explanation of what it is about it they dont like..

Regardless of what else is said, which may indeed be of value, the refusal of men to live up to, or want to live up to, their natural responsibilities as expected by the old system of patriarchy is probably behind the rise of damaging feminism more than anything else..

[celtish]

I am MAN! I am INVINCIBLE! Hear me ROAR!

[bachelor tom]

Originally Posted by Drex

Regardless of what else is said, which may indeed be of value, the refusal of men to live up to, or want to live up to, their natural responsibilities as expected by the old system of patriarchy is probably behind the rise of damaging feminism more than anything else..

I tend to agree, though it may be a bit more complicated.

If you mean that men abdicated their responsibility as judges of society's best interests, I agree, though the rise of mass communication techniques in the early 20th C gave bad people a new weapon of deceit.

As Percy points out, we live in the age of untruth, where no-one is allowed to know what really goes on in the corridors of power. Propaganda, marketing and information control are powerful tools of manipulation.

And there's the old problem of people not wanting to hear the truth. Maybe this is the root of your observation: men became like women and stopped caring about reality (?)

[FFFF]

Originally Posted by bachelor tom

I tend to agree, though it may be a bit more complicated.

If you mean that men abdicated their responsibility as judges of society's best interests, I agree, though the rise of mass communication techniques in the early 20th C gave bad people a new weapon of deceit.

As Percy points out, we live in the age of untruth, where no-one is allowed to know what really goes on in the corridors of power. Propaganda, marketing and information control are powerful tools of manipulation.

And there's the old problem of people not wanting to hear the truth. Maybe this is the root of your observation: men became like women and stopped caring about reality (?)

Yes. The rise of technology is certainly a factor and you have identified something I agree with.

"the media" has had the blame for most things..

Who controls the "access to reality"..?

For sure, there are so many sources of reality and flavours that the more time one spends reading and discovering it, the more one moves out of the real reality as shared by the plebs..

Only they dont realise how real they are!!

[bachelor tom]

Originally Posted by Percy

Our actions betray our inner sense of self. We whine and complain, we 'educate' one another. We can see and talk, but fail to DO.

Why is this?

Ned Holstein is a Father's Rights Activist. He DOES things.

To me, a father, the needs of fathers is important but is a sub-set of my needs as a MAN.

My self-respect needs.

How many of us have a severely damaged sense of self and respect for ourselves? Sufficient respect.

What does that damage prevent us from doing?

Do we even recognise that we are damaged?

I suspect, as Ned does, that we are in denial a lot of the time.

Recognition and acknowledgement is necessary.

It isn't an issue of self-blame or self-flagellation. We have been subjected to 40 years of sustained villification. It has left damage.

“I Am A Man.”

Perhaps this should be the over-arching slogan, T-sirt message, banner legend etc that unites us all.

Yes, almost like the blacks a century ago, seeing themselves as sub-human

As you say, virtually everything about traditional heterosexual masculinity is considered negative in the mainstream culture.

[Dr David Banner]

Recognition and acknowledgement is necessary.

"It isn't an issue of self-blame or self-flagellation. We have been subjected to 40 years of sustained villification. It has left damage."
Percy
Wise words Percy alas too true .I dont say much to friends or family,only rarely bringing the subject in a very low key way.
Dont get listened to by many men as well as women who look blank.

Today I had a very robust man a pensioner telling a load of women that mostly women, were only trouble: false accusations,etc..etc and that marriage was legalised prostitution.He did so in a humourous way and all but one woman laughed, one seemed miffed but said nothing.Its my workplace so pc that a mere word would get me suspended.
I joined the laughter and said little or nothing.

I write freely what I think here and it is cathartic. Reading this site I started with AngryHarry and he really was like therapy. Many of us testify the same finding others agreeing and having similar experinces of injustice and insults ad finitum . I used to think it was something wrong with me.

NO MORE...There are wounds Percy - you are so right - to the very soul and the heart. I can testify that, wait, read grow wiser and that we can heal and the very wounds make you stronger. Think about Samson story,which fascinates me.
Its symbolically what men will do when we are fully healed.

I find myself much more of a realist. People are shocked at my new found freedom.Suddenly I can take em or leave em. They have less control.

The world itself is due to vomit some more in revulsion at the unnatural state of things. God and nature cannot be decieved......
I can say with confidence to all .The lies of feminism - the bitch daughter of communism ,will soon drain away into the sewers of the earth....
HOPE too thats something we should practice.I believe active hope helps to bring about the change we want!

[MAUS]

"I am a man"......Joseph Merrick (the elephant man)