My Plot Thickens...

**Bmiricle** · 16th-January-2011

After an hour long discussion with the CSA in Michigan regarding my case I found out several things.

1. I have no right to any parenting time with my daughter because of a document I neglected to sign and send back to the CSA 5 years ago.
2. There are hoops I can jump through to get my support order lowered and arrears dissipated.
3. My ex-wife with held information from me.
4. My ex-wife lied to me.
5. My ex-wife will probably not do the most civil thing in regards to fixing the current situation I am in in regards to seeing my daughter and allowing me the option to not be in a debt that I never asked for in the first place.

It turns out that all my ex-wife has to do is write a letter abolishing my arrears and lowering the monthly obligation. She has been on and on about how it's out of her hands and the state won't allow it.

Well motherfucker, I just got off the telephone with the state. Yes, THE state. The ones who make the rules as they go. It's a simple process really. Who knew. I didn't. because I'm the stupid sap who fell in with a woman who will manipulate my feelings towards her and my daughter to her own benefit for over half a decade.

Anyhow, I won't hold my breath as to her just fixing things as I know she has the power to do.

So, moving on, the state of Michigan DOES NOT go retroactive in their child support rulings. Meaning, though my support order was unjust and ridiculous to begin with, they will not revoke the order, nor will they allow me anything but a payment plan for what I believe is a un-warranted debt. They will not do this even with documented evidence that I can not, nor could I ever, afford what they decided I needed to pay to be a father.

Yes, that's right, what I needed to PAY to be a father. If I have money and the checks are rolling in everything is well and good. I lose my job, fall on hard times, or anything of that nature, I am a felon.

Welcome to America folks.

I have information being mailed to me as to my "rights" and courses of action I can take.

More to come.

**RobYork** · 16th-January-2011

Hi Bmiricle,

I am very sorry to hear of your situation, are there any other fathers who have been in the same situation, who can give you some advice ?

Hang in there, and keep fighting !!!

**Douglas** · 16th-January-2011

I'm not a citizen of the USA but don't the 8th or 14th amendment to the constitution provide protection against some of the C$A's actions? I realise that to make a challenge on that level is a big step but surely there are men's groups, civil liberty groups etc. to help?

At a personal level, I would say to get as much in writing - from your ex and from the CSA as possible. After a phone call, a letter along the lines of "I'd like confirmation that my understanding of our conversation is accurate. I understand that..." can be invaluable to make someone realise the difference between personal bias and what they could be answerable for. In the UK, telephone tapping is legal so long as one party to the conversation is the tapper (i.e. you are allowed to record conversations you are a part of). There are fairly cheap devices to put on a home telephone line that will enable the clear recording of any phone conversation you want to keep as evidence (the cheap wireless ones are not as good and can make you suspect under US terrorist laws). Although I've never had to use such in court, I have found that the confidence in having such proof to be invaluable. You can also make all your important calls with Skype and use a program like Pamela Recorder to keep a record of them.

I hope my practical advice doesn't overshadow my sympathy for your position, and for any parent in your situation.

**zetamale** · 16th-January-2011

you really should write a book about all of this

**Douglas** · 16th-January-2011

Quote from zetamale

you really should write a book about all of this

The trouble is, it's a book that so many of us could write. Not in each personal detail, of course, but in generic terms the abusive relationship (with both male and female perpetrators) is all too often encouraged and the social and legal support of the perpetrator (especially with male victims) is entrenched and hard to fight when you're in the emotional thick of it.

**bowspearer** · 16th-January-2011

This totally sucks. I hope you somehow manage to get some justice soon.

**John Dias** · 16th-January-2011

Don't take legal advice from the State. Get a lawyer as soon as you can. Check the Web site of Mardindale-Hubbell to do a search for lawyers in your geographical area. Make sure you select only those lawyers that are designated as "BV-rated" or even better "AV-rated." Among that subset, find a lawyer that specializes in as few areas as possible, and make sure that one of those specialties is in family law. Then compile a list of the final candidates, and call and interview them. Ask them questions about their experience in modifying child support and listen to what they say. Among those whose answers indicate competence in child support law, determine the amount of their retainer, and then make your choice. You have to get aggressive and start filing motions. Even a motion with little chance of succeeding puts the opposing party on the defensive, which from a legal standpoint is where you want your Ex to be. Then you have a perceived bargaining chip in her eyes, which you can then use as leverage to get her to write that letter to wipe out your past child support obligation.

And no matter what, so long as it depends on you, don't say or do anything that could provoke her. You want to minimize her feelings of righteous anger while maximizing her perception of your legal leverage.

**Bmiricle** · 16th-January-2011

Quote from John Dias

Don't take legal advice from the State. Get a lawyer as soon as you can.

Aye, I'd like to...Don't know as to when I can afford that though.

**John Dias** · 16th-January-2011

See the edits that I just made to my comment above. As far as affording it, you have to decide which scenario is less unaffordable: a huge bogus child support obligation, or the cost of retaining a lawyer (or both, if you think that you can legally educate yourself). If you plan to represent yourself legally, I would suggest getting legal advice for $26/month from a qualified attorney via Prepaid Legal.

**Bmiricle** · 16th-January-2011

Thank you so much John, you've been a big help. I will scout attorneys for the next little while and see what I can do from there financially.

**Bmiricle** · 16th-January-2011

Well, My license has been suspended. And I have a bench warrant in the state of Michigan.

When I inquired as to what logic there was behind the taking of my driving, occupational, and traveling licenses the answer was gut-wrenching.

"That's just our way of punishing you for not paying."

Yes indeedy folks, you heard it here first. (Well, probably not first...meh) Your friendly local CSA has the authority to dole out punishment as they see fit. Fantastic.

Also, when I asked how It was supposed to be in the best interest of the child to run the father into poverty, their reply was in the general tone of:

It's not important. It's the monetary support that matters.

This isn't a direct quote, nor is it an exaggeration of what was said to me. It's the money that matters. My ability to be a father is of no importance to them.

I am going to wage a war with this state and it's crap policies. I hope there is a Michigan lawyer who is up for this. If there is I hope I find them.

**Bmiricle** · 19th-January-2011

So by the state's logic. You suspend a father's driver's and occupational licenses. Make it damn near impossible to work. And then tell him he has to pay consistently for 90 days before the ruling can be evaluated and changed.

So yeah, 'logic'.

shit.

**Marx** · 19th-January-2011

Thanks feminism for pushing dads out of the home and into only walking wallets... attack the policies yes, but remember who set that ball rolling.

**Nynrah Ghost** · 20th-January-2011

Quote from Bmiricle

So by the state's logic. You suspend a father's driver's and occupational licenses. Make it damn near impossible to work. And then tell him he has to pay consistently for 90 days before the ruling can be evaluated and changed.

So yeah, 'logic'.

shit.

Catch-22 logic

**Bmiricle** · 20th-February-2011

So I've received the information for filing the motions and trying to get my parenting time back. This, of course, involves filing fees in which I read the first page of the first pamphlet and it was already up to $100. I'm sure there are more.

On top of this my ex is changing the case to Oklahoma from Michigan and apparently I have no say in this matter either. Not that I'm so sure this is a bad thing, it's just the principal that I have no fucking say in the matter.

I'm getting exhausted with the whole ordeal. Truly exhausted. My mind is wandering, my body has a hard time catching up half the time. They've suspended my operational licenses and I can not contract my work on the books now. It's all going down hill in a hurry.