Fathers for justice rooftop protest - Harriet Harman's house

[Marx]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88OlCObD9nc&feature=email"]YouTube - Fathers-for-justice rooftop protest - Harriet Harman's house[/ame]

[Dr David Banner]

Is it just me?....Or did the sky reporter sound a tad hostile just like the journo from the beeb?
In my experience Most female journos are F E M I N I S T S and therefore not even remotely objective.

[Marx]

Is it just me?....Or did the sky reporter sound a tad hostile just like the journo from the beeb?

I noted the same attacking tone. She didn't interview, she interrogated.

[Percy]

David Usher, on MND, has broken with his usual reserve and has penned a supportive piece about the F4J protest. He talks very positively of the cleverness of the F4J slogan. He discusses his grandma's early feminist history and decries the use of violence. As per usual.

But this is a good step, nonetheless. His river of activity is acting in concert with F4J's. The Main is building.

My friend amfortas tried several times to post a comment but so far it hasn't appeared.

So here is what he had to say:

I too applaud the 'smarts' of modern sloganeering as used by F4J and the verve they demonstrate selecting targets and scaling roofs. Those guys definitely know how to drag the public's tiny attention span back to the issue.

And the potted Usher history (thank you David) is revealing. The civilised urge to be peaceful and patient is commendable but as history so frequently shows us, it can also exacerbate the problem. The closest that F4J got to arousing public outrage was when Jolly sat atop a Judge's roof dressed as Father Christmas and the dull bugger Judge came out with a shotgun.

Provoking such targets as Harman to doing stupid things is the way to leverage the protest. F4J has some success there when they utilise their Court appearances and let the public ridicule the Bench.

But, the forty years (recall the Hundred year's War) demonising and fighting men shows no sign of abating. Patience might be seen as wearing thin and cautious words flow, but maybe patience was misplaced in the first instance. Few movements have lasted such a length of time without having severe and permanent affect on a society.

Our society is in danger of failing altogether. We are non-breeding our way into oblivion, due to Feminism. It is a completely destructive ideology.

Most of the MRM or Men's Equality Movement do not advocate violence. I can understand and appreciate its use though. I was employed by the Queen for 20+ years to visit violence upon her enemies. I am well aware that violence has a way of breaking out in unexpected places simply because people's tolerance limits differ. I understand that too.

Push Government Minister's limits enough and it is THEY who are likely to turn violent. Stupidly. These F4J guys get surrounded by cops under Ministerial direction and 'protection'. At the Lincoln Memorial Jolly Stansby was assaulted by cops. Armed cops. The American public are innoculated against reaction to Police violence, having turned into nightly entertainment. They accept it like innoculated sheep accept tics.

The British Feminist Government acts hysterically to 'terrorism' and like Feminists everywhere who slide the definition of 'Rape' downward to include activity no matter how un-rapelike into the frame, so the BritFemGov will likely do with sitting on a roof.

The British Police murdered an innocent Brazilian guy running for a train a year or to back. They have already pushed right up against the average man's limits. One day an F4J hero will become a martyr.

That will be the moment when previously silent men will stand up and say, "I am Spartacus". They will take to their roofs in solidarity. Some will be armed. And for some others, brooding as they have been, the dogs of violence will slip the leash. It will stimulate an over-reaction from BritFemGov. There WILL be a civil conflagration.

British men are among the most tolerant that have ever walked the earth, but like Churchill, can be bull-dogs when roused.

Will American men be allies again, in this cause of even more pressing and essential Justice? Will American men sit on the roof, with their rifles?

Will America’s leading MRM voices support this, or will they condemn the righteous revolt?

[Incognito]

Did she press charges for trespassing on her property?

While these guys have the right message, I wonder if the delivery of it in that particular way was wise. If they end up in jail for harassment and trespassing, the message itself might get lost. Might be damaging to the movement rather than helpful.

[RedRooster]

So here is what he had to say: Will American men be allies again, in this cause of even more pressing and essential Justice? Will American men sit on the roof, with their rifles?

"I sound my barbaric yawp over the roofs of the world"

You have my answer...

[RedRooster]

Did she press charges for trespassing on her property?

I wish she would.

[Incognito]

And this man compared the injustice in family courts to the holocaust....six million people were killed in concentration camps....is that really an appropriate analogy to make? Will people take him seriously when he uses statements like these?

Don't get me wrong ...my interest is in helping get the message out that they are trying to get out...but don't we have to be at least a little bit cautious how we try to gain support? What good will it do to get out this message if people won't take it seriously (or they reject it)? The Superman costumes, the trespassing, the harassment, the reference to the holocaust.....might just turn people against the movement rather than bring support for it. And support is what we want, what we're after, right?

[Incognito]

I wish she would.

I have mixed feelings about that. On one hand, I don't want to see those guys get into legal trouble over this. They mean well. On the other hand, actions like these might backfire on the credibility of the men's movement...and not doing anything to stop this sort of thing will encourage more of the same...and it might escalate...

I hope she reads the book.

I hope they chose their target with great thought. Perhaps they knew that a stunt like this would not be something she would press charges over. Maybe they know her well enough to know that. Or maybe they just got lucky this time.

[RedRooster]

And this man compared the injustice in family courts to the holocaust....six million people were killed in concentration camps....is that really an appropriate analogy to make? Will people take him seriously when he uses statements like these?

Don't get me wrong ...my interest is in helping get the message out that they are trying to get out...but don't we have to be at least a little bit cautious how we try to gain support? What good will it do to get out this message if people won't take it seriously (or they reject it)? The Superman costumes, the trespassing, the harassment, the reference to the holocaust.....might just turn people against the movement rather than bring support for it. And support is what we want, what we're after, right?

Evasive much?

A little upset maybe that the same guerrilla tactics are being used that your sistas used?

I see your spots...

[Incognito]

Profile: Fathers 4 Justice


Fathers 4 Justice have run a high-profile, often controversial, campaign for improved rights for men denied access to their children.
The group's protesters have hurled packages of flour at former Prime Minister Tony Blair in the Commons and climbed all sorts of buildings dressed as superheroes.
The group was briefly disbanded in January 2006 following allegations that people linked to the group plotted to kidnap Tony Blair's youngest son, Leo.

But the organisation was reformed the following May, an event it marked by disrupting a live broadcast of the National Lottery draw.

Dyed flour was thrown at Tony Blair in the House of Commons



Matt O'Connor, a father-of-two, founded the group after a difficult divorce left him struggling to maintain contact with his children - although the problem had been resolved by the time Fathers 4 Justice was up and running.
"So many people have lost contact with their children through the courts, it was inevitable something like Fathers 4 Justice was going to emerge," he has said.

The politicians are not dealing with this with the degree of urgency this matter deserves


Matt O'Connor
Fathers 4 Justice founder

The group's early meetings with the government achieved little success, prompting it to launch in 2004 a national campaign of civil disruption. Fathers 4 Justice admitted protesters would be running the risk of imprisonment but said they had "exhausted every possible avenue" and the tactics were a "last resort".

"We are a bunch of guys who are going to be making some pretty scary sacrifices," said Mr O'Connor at the time.
"It comes down to the simple fact that we face a Herculean struggle. The politicians are not dealing with this with the degree of urgency this matter deserves."
High-profile protests
Among numerous demonstrations on cranes, key roads, bridges, public buildings and monuments, the most high-profile protests included:

• • Two men throwing packages of flour dyed purple at Tony Blair during prime minister's questions in May 2004
    
  • A man dressed as Spiderman scaling the London Eye and staging an 18-hour protest that closed the attraction in September 2004
  
  
  
• In the same month, a campaigner dressed as Batman staging a five-hour protest on a ledge by the Buckingham Palace balcony
• Three men dressed as superheroes scaling a Foreign Office balcony overlooking Downing Street in March 2005.

The group condemned the plot by fringe members to kidnap the prime minister's son, over which Mr O'Connor said he was made "very angry and upset", and it temporarily disbanded in the wake of the furore over the incident.

When the group reformed in May 2006, Mr O'Connor was said to have taken a more behind-the-scenes role as a media adviser.

He has since gone on to stand for Mayor of London as the candidate of the English Democrats party.

In March 2007, the organisation staged a demonstration in York Minister - with protesters dressed as monks and nuns - which it said marked the start of a renewed national campaign.

Aims
Fathers 4 Justice wants parents and grandparents to be given "a legal right to see their children and grandchildren".
"The law says you have no legal right to see your children - only a right to apply to a court to see them - but you have a legal obligation to pay for them," Mr O'Connor has said.

Demos have promoted the campaign but also drawn criticism

"Fathers are forced to support children even when mothers are not being forced to allow those fathers access."
He argues that family court-issued contact orders intended to ensure access for the parent not living with their children are worthless because they are not enforced.
The government admits that the enforcement of contact orders is "an issue" that needs to be addressed.

Critics
But Fathers 4 Justice's actions have attracted criticism.
Tony Coe, president of the Equal Parenting Council, recognised the "real tragedy and frustration" behind the 2004 Buckingham Palace protest.
But he added: "We don't think that this kind of unlawful action helps, in fact it alienates the very people that we are trying to persuade."
Then home secretary David Blunkett added that the group had done its "very reasonable" cause a disservice by acting in a "foolish and silly" way.
When a protester dressed as Spiderman climbed a crane on Tower Bridge, London, in November 2004, city Mayor Ken Livingstone said the stunt demonstrated why "some men should not have access to their children".

[RedRooster]

I have mixed feelings about that. On one hand, I don't want to see those guys get into legal trouble over this. They mean well. On the other hand, actions like these might backfire on the credibility of the men's movement...and not doing anything to stop this sort of thing will encourage more of the same...and it might escalate...

I hope she reads the book.

I hope they chose their target with great thought. Perhaps they knew that a stunt like this would not be something she would press charges over. Maybe they know her well enough to know that. Or maybe they just got lucky this time.

It really doesn't matter... the issue here is boundries and property rights.

As long as the other side thinks it's o.k. to infringe on these.... well then I guess it's o.k.

Unless there is some double standard your talking about.

Is there?

[RedRooster]

Critics
But Fathers 4 Justice's actions have attracted criticism.
Tony Coe, president of the Equal Parenting Council, recognised the "real tragedy and frustration" behind the 2004 Buckingham Palace protest.
But he added: "We don't think that this kind of unlawful action helps, in fact it alienates the very people that we are trying to persuade."
Then home secretary David Blunkett added that the group had done its "very reasonable" cause a disservice by acting in a "foolish and silly" way.
When a protester dressed as Spiderman climbed a crane on Tower Bridge, London, in November 2004, city Mayor Ken Livingstone said the stunt demonstrated why "some men should not have access to their children".

It's good to do your homework. Do some more. Do think other people here are not aware of the critics and stunts. Please see last post.

[paul parmenter]

I understand that Harm-man has now left her house until the demonstration is over.

Brilliant.

Now perhaps she can get an inkling of understanding of what she and her feminazi sisters have inflicted on thousands of innocent men, driving them out of their homes due to crazy anti-father and anti-family laws.

If only the police would now send her the bill for their services - just as disempowered fathers get the bill for trying to keep their families intact. Now that would be some poetic justice.

We can but dream.

[gaynorbarry]

While these guys have the right message, I wonder if the delivery of it in that particular way was wise. If they end up in jail for harassment and trespassing, the message itself might get lost. Might be damaging to the movement rather than helpful.

Harriet Harman is only experiencing what the state does to many fathers on a daily basis, let her walk in a separated fathers shoes if only for a brief moment. In the UK separated fathers have been doing it your way Terra for over 30 years is it no wonder a number of fathers have taken to NON Violent Direct Action. No one stopped the solicitors and courts from harassing fathers to give up their houses, no one was jailed for that, oh sorry that was state sponsored harassment, I would have much preferred two super heroes sat on my old roof for a week, that would not have been harassment it would have been company for me in my hour of need.

The general public would rather not think about what their taxes are being used for, its nice to remind them every now and again, especially when it could be one of their friends are close relatives effected by separation. As for the movement it has always been made up of very different peoples with different ideas, who have a choice to act as they see fit. You have made your choice and I have made mine. I wish you all the best on your strategies to move things forward, and your arguments will not deter me from mine.

barry gaynor