I don't know if anybody is reading this thread anymore, but I would like to illustrate the product of this hysteria. I found a web-site called "watch your drink" and would like to post two of the user submitted stories.

From http://www.watchyourdrink.com/your-stories.php

Debbie, PA Hello,

I found your site from googling GHB. My husband and I believe I was drugged last night. We were at my husband's work party last night, and then went to the hotel bar with out-of-town coworkers after. I had 6 drinks before going to the bar, and then remember only having a beer and a shot at the bar. I blacked out around 12:30. My husband said I was babbling and unable to stand when we went to the bar. I became violent in the car, and kicked the windshield until it broke. When we got home my husband took the dog outside, and while he was out there he heard some banging inside. When he came in he found me in the bathroom, I had broken the toilet, and cut my hand badly on the broken porcelain. We went to the hospital this morning (I wouldn't go right after what happened) and they told me they cant test me for it. I am very frustrated because I want to know if I was for sure drugged. I've had blackout drunks before when I was in college, but nothing ever like this. I was wondering if you could tell me more about what a person looks like and acts like on GHB, and if you think what happened to me could have possibly been a GHB drugging.


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13 Jan 2010

So, if I understand correctly, she had 6 drinks before going to the bar. Then, according to her, she was babbling and couldn't even stand when she went to the bar but decided to have another beer and shot (or perhaps the drinks came first and she was just unclear in her posting). She became belligerent and the only explanation she can think of is that she was drugged. I don't see anything in her post that would lead me to believe that she was drugged. All of her symptoms and actions can be attributed to excessive alcohol consumption.

I think this woman's post, and the next one I will be posting, show how little people understand alcohol. One of the recurrent themes is that "I only had (insert low number here) drinks." I would like to examine the error in that line of thought. First, we know there are many variables of a persons own biology that will determine to what level they are affected by the alcohol they consume.
Some variables are:
1. When was the last time they ate?
2. What was it they ate?
3. How hydrated are they?
4. How much sleep have they been getting?
5. What is their mind state (stressed, depressed, etc.)?
6. Any illness in the last month?
7. Have they taken any drugs that would interfere with alcohol metabolism (aspirin, Tylenol, and Tagamet to name a few)?

There are of course some other variables I neglected to mention, but these are sufficient to illustrate my point.


Now there is the actual issue of what constitutes a single drink. Generally speaking, 12oz. beer = 1oz. shot = 5oz. wine. Of course there are high gravity beers and varying proofs of liquor, but this is the general rule. From my experiences, the conversations I've had, and the stories I've read, we are almost always talking about consuming liquor based drinks when it comes to women. Perhaps for you readers in the U.K. or Australia beer is the drink of choice for young (college age normally) women, but that is not my experience here in the Midwestern U.S. I know very few women that order beer at the bars/clubs. So what does someone mean when they say they only had 4 drinks. The only place I've been that actually uses a single shot measure is the casinos one state over in Indiana, and that is only on the boat itself. All bars and clubs I've been to free pour. The bartender puts ice in the glass and pours until they think it is at the correct level, either by where it goes up to in the glass, which can be distorted by how much ice was added, or by how long they tilted the bottle for, which is basically an estimate at best. Neither of these methods, no matter how seasoned the bartender, can produce consistent measures. The strength of alcohol means that these inconsistencies, over the course of 4 drinks, can produce significant outcomes. One ounce is a small amount, and few people could differentiate between 1 ounce and 1 1/4 ounce. I have gone to the same bar and used the same bartender and know the amount he gives is often based on his mood. There are times he's generous and times he's not. Just like how your drinks get stronger after your first two purchases when they realize you are actually tipping when others are not. So what is the consequence of 4 drinks with 1 1/4 ounces instead of the typical 1 ounce? We now have consumed 5 ounces instead of 4, and would be at 125% of the level we had meant to, and were prepared to, consume. Yet people somehow still cling to this idea that "a drink" is standard measurements. When you then factor in the person's physiology that night and all of those variables, the matter becomes even more complicated. I only used 4 drinks as an example and have often heard more than that. There have been times I've had 8 drinks and felt relatively sober, and times I had 4 and was smashed. I rationally attributed this to variance in my physiology and not to being drugged though. Another story from the site further illustrates how even when the most obvious answer is staring someone right in the face, this drink spiking propaganda teaches us that any time someone acts in a manner that is out of character for them and they later have regrets, we must question whether they were drugged . The story will be presented in the order it is told on the site but with me commenting throughout.

Nathan
Sharon, I commend the work you have done and continue to do.
My wife was a victim of this crime just recently. And in order to help other women out there I would like to share her experience and give some advice based on what we learned.
It was a Thursday night, and my wife went downtown to a club with a co-worker (distinct difference from friend). The female co-worker was meeting another co-worker, for a "first date" if you will.
My wife had 3 drinks with these co-workers and went dancing for a bit. She came back to the table and had another drink. This drink delivered by the waitress, had a strange taste so she brought it back to the bartender and received another one.

So at this point a drink delivered by a waitress tasted funny and she returned it. It is doubtful, though not impossible, that a waitress would be complicit in a drugging. That point aside, for a sip of a drugged drink to produce any noticeable effects would mean the drink would have had an enormous amount of the drug that could have meant death if she consumed the whole thing. Someone who is drugging a drink only wishes to mildly incapacitate their victim, not kill them. Also, just because a drink tastes funny does not mean it was drugged. I've ordered drinks at the bar with friends and watched them being made only to have a friend (a male) say their drink tasted weird. I tried it and agreed. The bartender took it back, poured himself a small sip of the mixer he had ordered, told us there was something wrong with the mixer, dumped out my friends drink and the pitcher of mixer, and made my friend another drink. I only drink whiskey and Coke, which you would think would be impossible to screw up, and have returned drinks complaining they don't taste right. They get some Coke from the fountain and taste it before having me taste it and we agree the fountain settings are off.

She went back out to the dance floor.
She was soon approached by a "normal" looking guy who first asked her if she was married. She said yes. The man then asked if your husband would mind if I bought you a drink. Thinking he was harmless, she said no, he wouldn't mind.

Even if he appeared harmless, why would she agree to let him buy a drink? Why would a husband not mind his wife being bought drinks by a stranger at a bar? Let's be real, there is a deeper meaning in the act of buying a stranger a drink. Her acceptance of the drink even though she was married indicated she was open to spending some time with the man. Some people have open marriages. If she didn't expect to spend some time with the man she should have refused a drink. Unless she thinks that being a woman entitles her to free things at the expense of other men.

They sat at the bar and after some time she turned her back to him, as if trying to say, thanks for the drink, but I am not interested.

So maybe she was just looking for a free drink.

From there her memory is gone.
She doesn't remember closing her tab. She remembers getting her coat, thinking she was going out front of the club to smoke.
Meanwhile her friends remember her giggling, hanging all over the guy, kissing him, and then leaving (they thought she two was smoking because she was all night and he was following her with the two drinks still).

So according to her friends, she was giggling, hanging all over the guy, kissing him, and then leaving. That sounds to me like the typical way bar hookups go. Blacking out is a symptom of excessive alcohol use. The fact that she was hanging all over and kissing him suggests this was something she was excited to do. Nothing here indicates she was drugged. GHB is given to incapacitate someone, it doesn't magically make them fall for you and kiss you of their own accord. It does serve to lower inhibitions, but no more than alcohol, and lowered inhibitions just means she is more likely to make decisions she would feel guilty about while sober (like cheating on her husband).

Next all she remembers is seeing the side of a cab. Thinking in the cab, "where are we going?"
She doesn't remember vomitting all over herself and the cab. She remembers being at the cheap hotel desk while they were getting a room. Again, unable to comprehend the situation. And she remembers him kissing her in the hotel room.
When she woke she called me immediately, not knowing where she was or what had happened. Unfortunately, I was only suspicious, not knowing that being drugged was even a possibility.
She woke him up and asked him if they had done "it".
He replied, "What, you don't remember? I guess this makes it awkward for the two of us."
She went to work that day, left early to see her primary care doctor and when she did she was alerted by her doctor that she had been sexually assaulted.

Nonsense. Her doctor could maybe tell her she had sex, but that in no way means it was a sexual assault. No one can examine the genitals and say: "Well that person had sex, but that person was sexually assaulted." There can be evidence that sex occurred, but nothing more.

She was treated by the responding police officer like she was at fault, that it was infidelity. The officer called me and asked if there was a history of infidelity. I said, "No, she never goes out, she is a mother of three, and a very dedicated mother."
I asked if she was drugged.
The officer responded, "if she was drugged, he would have had to carry her out of the club." Not true, I know this now.

While what the officer said is not necessarily true, the husband glossed over the point. The point of drugging is to incapacitate. She was hanging on the stranger and kissing him according to her friends. Why would the officer not ask about infidelity? Just because she was intoxicated and had lowered inhibitions does not mean she is not responsible for her actions. Besides her regret when she woke up, there is nothing that would point to any nefarious work at play.

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At the hospital in the rape clinic, things moved very slow and she was not tested until the end, almost eighteen hours after she was dosed.
The drug test came back negative. The police found the guy, he denies everything, and says that she was having the time of her life. The DA decided not to procesecute. Good news is they have his name and he is now in a database, when he strikes again, and he will, hopefully he will be caught. I did write the Chief of Police, telling her of the story and urging her to take more proactive measures in educating the women in this city.

To be fair, GHB is cleared from the system very quickly so a negative test doesn't mean she wasn't drugged, but I've seen no indication that she was. The DA was right not to prosecute. You can't prosecute based on regret. She was hanging on him and kissing him. She was aware they were getting a hotel room, though she claims she was "unable to comprehend the situation." What measures does he think the Chief of Police should take to educate the women of the city? I think education is the problem here. The problem is, we've been educated with lies and propaganda. We are taught to be afraid and see nefarious deeds where they do not exist. We are taught to ignore the obvious.

So, what did we learn:

1. Watch your drink and do not accept a drink from anyone you don't know, no matter how harmless they appear.
2. Go out with FRIENDS, not co-workers, people who don't know you outside of work.
3. Get tested immediately. Demand that it be done first thing.
4. Most of all, be strong and do not blame yourself for what was done to you.

17 Sep 2009

No. I do think this woman should be blaming herself. She went out drinking, accepted a drink offer from a stranger even though she was married, was hanging all over and kissing him, and left to get a hotel to sleep with him. Nothing was done to her. She was an active participant and now feels guilty for cheating. To think, this man could have faced years in prison had the DA not had some sense and all because the woman regretted what she did.


There are other stories on the site that aren't like these. Rape is a despicable and deplorable crime. People that drug others need to be severely dealt with. I just think we've all been brainwashed about the issue. People now automatically assume something else it at work it they make decisions they later regret. I think people need to take responsibility for their actions, even when they regret them.

A solid criticism of the hysteria omegaflux.

The whole date rape and roofie crap is just myth that drunken whores use to hide their guilt and stupidity.
Many of them take great pride in drinking themselves retarded, just ask Lindsay Lohan or Amy Whinewhore.

Quote from rohara

I can't help but think that the whole date rape drug and rape hysteria over all is rooted in a collective female narcissism. I remember one time I was out and I saw a guy move a drink out of the way from his at the bar. This girl, whose drink it was, came at him screaming: "you put something in my drink you bastard." I approached her and said "no he didn't he was just moving it out of the way I saw it and you didn't."
This did not dissuade her one bit. She started screaming madly like a spoiled child getting the attention of every single chivalrous mangyna in the place, which she clearly liked, and eventually getting the poor guy kicked out. It was total attention whoring.
A lot of women love the role of the long suffering saintly victim as it gives them privilege and power over other people, namingly men. The whole thing just seems like a scam that garners privilege that isn't deserved.

It is the "Let's you and him fight" game.

A superb post, omegaflux. I have had some personal experience with this hysteria in the past; two friends of mine (female) have, on more than one occasion, blamed their behaviour on spiked drinks. Both of these women drink to excess and both also take illicit recreational drugs; anything they can get their hands on, from ketamine to marijuana, with very little understanding of how these drugs actually effect the mind, or for that matter with little understanding of alcohol itself, and no thought given to what the combined effects of these drugs and alcohol would be despite that I have warned them about certain drugs (Benzodiazepines for the most part) greatly increasing the potency of alcohol’s effect on the mind and body. No doubt there are a few people out there prepared to spike drinks - men and women no doubt - for various reasons, and that this certainly constitutes a minor danger, but given how rarely this has been shown to occur and how simple it is to ensure one's drink is protected from having anything placed in it I find myself confounded as to the hysterical social reaction on the part of women and many men.

Several reasons immediately spring to mind, for me, in regards to women's hysteria surrounding this issue. Firstly many women don't like paying for their own drinks; many expect men to buy drinks for them when they go out, and they are annoyed that they now cannot do this, because to do so would be to expose oneself to danger. Secondly, I agree with everyone else, in that it is being seized upon as an excuse for bad behaviour. What I notice however is despite the hysteria, women continue to allow strangers to purchase them drinks in bars and I think this tells you something about their sense of entitlement and responsibility.

A superb post, omegaflux. I have had some personal experience with this hysteria in the past; two friends of mine (female) have, on more than one occasion, blamed their behaviour on spiked drinks. Both of these women drink to excess and both also take illicit recreational drugs; anything they can get their hands on, from ketamine to marijuana, with very little understanding of how these drugs actually effect the mind, or for that matter with little understanding of alcohol itself, and no thought given to what the combined effects of these drugs and alcohol would be despite that I have warned them about certain drugs (Benzodiazepines for the most part) greatly increasing the potency of alcohol’s effect on the mind and body. No doubt there are a few people out there prepared to spike drinks - men and women no doubt - for various reasons, and that this certainly constitutes a minor danger, but given how rarely this has been shown to occur and how simple it is to ensure one's drink is protected from having anything placed in it I find myself confounded as to the hysterical social reaction on the part of women and many men.

Several reasons immediately spring to mind, for me, in regards to women's hysteria surrounding this issue. Firstly many women don't like paying for their own drinks; many expect men to buy drinks for them when they go out, and they are annoyed that they now cannot do this, because to do so would be to expose oneself to danger. Secondly, I agree with everyone else, in that it is being seized upon as an excuse for bad behaviour. What I notice however is despite the hysteria, women continue to allow strangers to purchase them drinks in bars and I think this tells you something about their sense of entitlement and responsibility.

"Several reasons..." while I agree with you dad.... to be fair, many women are fearful, because they've been indoctrinated by decades of anti-male polemic from the feminist front... all my life I've encountered women/girls who distrust men